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Forum Discussion
ReadyNAS Question Before Purchase
I currently have a ReadyNAS 628X in my home which is working well. Other than the RAID 5 setup, I don't have a true backup solution. I am considering purchasing a second ReadyNAS to use as my backu...
XrayDoc88 wrote:
Also, I've noticed that quite a large amount of my NAS storage space is used up by "snapshots". I guess those are a type of backup, but residing on the same hard disks. Is there a way to decrease the amount of snapshots or turn them off entirely? What do people recommend about snapshots? Thanks!
Snapshots aren't really a backup - they are more like the "previous versions" feature of Windows 10 (and in fact they are integrated into that feature of windows). They can be handy if you want to roll back to an older version of a file or folder. But if the main share is corrupted, the snapshots will be corrupted too - they are incremental to the main share, and not independent copies.
Personally I use them on most shares. But I don't recommend the default "smart" snapshots, because they have unlimited retention, and will eventually take all your disk space. Instead I use custom snapshots, which lets me manage the disk space. Although the space usage depends on the amount of change, for me setting retention at 3 months results a space usage of less than 5 percent. I find that reasonable overhead for what I get.
Snapshots should be turned off for shares holding live databases (or shares hosting torrents). Files that are frequently modified in place end up consuming a lot of snapshot space - and also end up fragmented in the main share.
FWIW, I disagree with McRob1 on this feature. Snapshots don't provide incremental backup. I do find them useful, and in particular I like the combination of rsync backup and snapshots on the destination shares (as explained below).
XrayDoc88 wrote:
I currently have a ReadyNAS 628X in my home which is working well. Other than the RAID 5 setup, I don't have a true backup solution. I am considering purchasing a second ReadyNAS to use as my backup to my NAS. I'd like to place this offsite so that it is safe from theft, fires and floods. Will the software that comes with ReadyNAS allow automatic backups across the internet to my second NAS? I haven't really used any of the ReadyNAS software other than the PLEX server.
I back up to other ReadyNAS myself, though in my case the backup NAS are also on-site. I supplement that with Crashplan for disaster recovery (Crashplan is hosted on a Windows PC that has the NAS data volume mounted as a drive letter).
I use rsync as the backup protocol, since I do want high-availability of the backup (ReadyDR doesn't provide high availability, you need to restore the backup to a share). I use share-by-share backup (one backup job per share). Snapshots are enabled on the destination shares - again with 3 months retention. I've also set the option to automatically delete files on the destination that are no longer on the source. This combination makes the destination a strict copy of the source share, and gives me 3 months of versioning (using the snapshots).
Both can be done remotely - as Sandshark says, a VPN is a good way to connect to the remote NAS. You can also use port forwarding with both ReadyDR and Rsync - but in the case of rsync you should use rsync-over-ssh because normal rsync isn't encrypted. And make sure you have a strong admin password. You do want to make sure that port forwarding is enabled on both sites, as you likely would want to restore backups remotely (not just create them).
FWIW, I also suggest getting a UPS for both NAS. A lot of data loss stories begin with an unexpected power loss (or power surge). A UPS will give you some protection against surges, and also makes sure the NAS will shut down cleanly when the UPS battery runs down.
BTW, I also recommend not using the "private shares" feature of the NAS. While they do have value in an enterprise setting, they can get in the way of backup (particularly restoring the private shares), and they don't work well with ReadyCloud. If you do need to restrict access (personally I don't in my own home NAS), then I recommend setting up a public share with network access controls instead. It's generally easier. Then disable all file sharing protocols for "Home" in the admin web UI.
XrayDoc88 wrote:
Brother! Why would they take away a nice option to backup your NAS remotely? I guess they want you to use their paid cloud storage.
So I looked at the backup tab and it lists "File Backup" and "ReadyDR". I guess those two methods only work on a local network?
Both options can work remotely (rsync being the best option for File Backup, especially over the internet). Again, you would need to forward ports or use a VPN. There are guides in the knowledge base articles.
ReadyDR is linked to snapshots (basically it backs up to snapshots on the destination). It is intended to replace Replicate. It's not a highly available backup - meaning you can't directly get files or folders from the ReadyDR backup. You have to restore the backup to a a share. Rsync is highly available - you can easily access everything in the destination share.
While many people go with ReadyDR, Rsync suits me better. I do want to immediately cut over to a backup NAS if the main NAS were to fail. And I do want to directly audit what is in the backup.
FWIW, I don't think they removed Replicate to promote Vault (though perhaps that was a factor). I think they did it to reduce the costs of ReadyCloud (since Replicate uses the same VPN, and the bandwidth through that VPN does cost Netgear money). But that's just my guess - I have no inside information.
XrayDoc88 wrote:
I've never tried to use a VPN. With Zero Tier do you basically make the remote NAS and your local NAS appear to be on the same local network? You mentioned an old ReadyNAS app. Is that also needed along with Zero Tier?
The ZeroTier app is definitely needed.
In addition to creating a virtual network for the two NAS, you should also install ZeroTier on at least one PC - which will let you administer both NAS remotely. You can also install it on your mobile devices, and use ZeroTier for remote access (instead of ReadyCloud).
ZeroTier can be intimidating - it has lots of functionality which most home users don't understand or need. But you don't need to use all that stuff, and there are some guides at ZeroTier.com. You are trusting the ZeroTier folks to keep the VPN network secure - though I know of no breaches and personally I'd be comfortable with that.
The main risk I see here is that the ZeroTier app is old, and not supported. It's likely that it will break at some point in the future - and if it does you'll need to switch to another solution (or hope someone updates the app).
Thanks for all the advice and suggestions, though my head is spinning a bit. :smileyembarrassed:
Is rsync the same as Resilio Sync? I don't see rsync listed on the available apps page. Also, if I understand correctly, you turn off snapshots on your main NAS and only have them enabled on your backup NAS?
I thought the remote backup was the most secure idea, but perhaps I should just accept using a local backup. Granted, a fire or theft could ruin everything, but those are pretty unlikely events. The local backup would be easier and provide faster restoration if needed.
Rsync is a standard Linux backup protocol and is selected as the type of backup in the backup job. It is unrelated to Resilio Sync.
Yes, it can make your head spin to sort through all the options and decide which is best when it's all new to you. And I'm probably about to add to the pile.
ZeroTier can be used to join two networks into one virtual one (typical VPN use) but is more often (and by default) used as a "parallel" connection path. As an example, my main NAS is 192.168.0.40 on my local network and 192.168.192.40 on ZeroTier (you choose the ZeroTier IP address at ZeroTier Central). My backup is on my brother's network at 10.10 0.xx (I forget right now) and 192.168.192.45 on ZeroTier. If put on my local network, 192.168.0.45 is reserved for it. They use ZeroTier to talk to each other, but their local IP address to be accessed from PC's and to access the internet (for OS updates and such).
Like ReadyCloud, ZeroTier uses a "traffic cop" that's on the Internet, called ZeroTire Central. Through it, you control what devices are allowed on your ZeroTier network It just helps establish and control the connections, the data doesn't go through it. So, I made an initial backup with both NAS local, then gave it to my brother at Christmas time. Though sending to the ZeroTier IP address, it was the same speed as if it were to a local one since it was physically on the local net Once set up in his home, it just keeps updating the backups just as if it were still here (though slower, obviously). I can also administer it remotely or directly upload or downlod from it with any device also running ZeroTier (One home PC, an Android phone, and my laptop) and enabled in my ZeroTier network. I left space for him to use, and added a backup from the remote NAS to backup his important stuff. I also only back up my most important things to the remote NAS. Lesser items are backed up locally -- mine on another NAS and my brothers on a USB drive (which he prefers to be connected to his PC instead of the NAS, since administering the NAS is not in his wheelhouse).
If my brother wasn't using it for local storage, I'd probably have set the backup jobs as a "pull" from my main NAS to the backup NAS and put it on a power schedule, as I have done with the local backup. One disadvantage of that, though, is that there is no log showing a "pull" backup took place and I've not enabled email notification. It's only logged on the initiating system, so you can only get to it when power is on. Locally, I can just turn it on if I want to check the logs, but it's not as easy when it's three states away. I have not checked to see if ZeroTier supports WoL, which could help here.
XrayDoc88 wrote:
Also, if I understand correctly, you turn off snapshots on your main NAS and only have them enabled on your backup NAS?
I have snapshots enabled on both the main NAS and the backup. The snapshots are taken shortly before the nightly backup is done.
The backup NAS is also on a power schedule, so it is turned off most of the day. Having snapshots enabled on the main NAS makes it simpler to access the previous versions.
Now that I better understand snapshots, I don't think I really need them. I use Acronis True Image on my computers to perform frequent, incremental backups to the NAS. Plus I just noticed that my snapishots are taking up more space than my actual data. Besides the backups, I only use the NAS to host movies, music, pictures, videos for my PLEX server. Those stable items only change when I add something new.
Is there a way to globally turn off snapshots? So far I've only found the schedule setting for each share where you can choose "never" from the drop down menu.
Also, how do you reclaim your snapshot storage space? Will those shapshots go away once snapshots are turned off?
Finally, do you know if the Netgear replicate app would still work fine for cloning your NAS locally? Did they just remove the remote option? Thanks.
XrayDoc88 wrote:
Now that I better understand snapshots, I don't think I really need them. I use Acronis True Image on my computers to perform frequent, incremental backups to the NAS. Plus I just noticed that my snapishots are taking up more space than my actual data. Besides the backups, I only use the NAS to host movies, music, pictures, videos for my PLEX server. Those stable items only change when I add something new.
I use TrueImage as well - making incremental image backups every week of 4 PCs. I still have snapshots on the TrueImage destination, but that is set to 2 weeks, not three months. The rationale there is to cover the scenario where I discover a new backup is corrupted right after the older backup set was deleted.
The thing about the snapshots on your other shares is that they only take up space when files are modified or deleted. So the snapshots are basically free on those shares.
XrayDoc88 wrote:
Also, how do you reclaim your snapshot storage space? Will those shapshots go away once snapshots are turned off?
I use custom snapshots, scheduled at 11 pm every day. "Only take snapshots with changes" is checked (just to eliminate clutter). Retention is generally set to 3 months (the TrueImage share being one exception, I have one other share that has snapshots turned off).
The snapshots are automatically deleted when the retention period expires. But they aren't deleted when you manually turn snapshots off - you have to delete them from the web UI.
"Smart" snapshots aren't so smart in my view. The snapshot thinning is a interesting idea, but the monthly snapshots are never deleted. And the oldest snapshots generally take the most space, since they are most diverged from the current share. (So when you are deleting snapshots, you should start with the oldest).
BTW, space isn't always reclaimed instantly with btrfs. And to maximize the free space you need to run a balance from the volume settings wheel from time to time. I schedule a balance every 3 months. FWIW, the longer a balance takes, the more the system needs it. So if the balance is taking too long you should run them more often.
XrayDoc88 wrote:Is there a way to globally turn off snapshots?
No there is not.
XrayDoc88 wrote:
Finally, do you know if the Netgear replicate app would still work fine for cloning your NAS locally? Did they just remove the remote option?
It's not available anymore - ReadyDR was intended to be the replacement for it.
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