Attached Device List

Well .. Just went through the multiple rebbot reset reboot (all on its won) that my router does when I power cycle it.  

So - did the full power off, wait, power on, wait, got ip address, still can .. wait, just lost connectivity, oop, back... wait, just lot connectivity again .... wait, back now... okay selecting manual firmware update RBS and a login screen pops up: failed authorization when using the same credentials as the CBR40.

Insert clip into the RSB20 reset button hole, wait 10 seconds, red LED begins blinking, then shuts off.  LED comes back on, tops lights do weird things (like 12% of men, I'm color blind so whatever it's doing is lost on me). Minutes later I try using the RBS ... get an IP, log into the CBR40 ... selecting Firmware Update gets me a blank screen. Router has lost it's brains and I lose connectivity and wait for router to "find itself" again.  I've seen this before ... when I was first connecting things.   No ipaddress so I do a release/renew ... get my mapped ip. Run Chrome again and log into CBK40 (orbilogin.com)  - Navigate to the Attached devices page... get a waiting whirlygig ... then a broken link - lost connection again (#2). 

I repower the RSB20 ... wait for things to look normal and press sync on the router and sync on the satellite.  Time passes.

Minutes later I try using the RBS ... get an IP, log into the CBR40 ... again I select Firmware Update and get a blank screen. So I wait a while ...  I check a command prompt for a valid IP address and see one.  I run Chrome again and log into CBK40 (orbilogin.com)  - I navigate to the Attached Devices page... get a waiting whirlygig ... then a broken link - lost connection again (#2 - well, #4 at this point). So I wait some more ... this time "recovery" seems faster, and I never lost the IP - router just went blank for a while. 

I log in to the router again. This time (third times a charm) I see attached devices, no drop; I select Firmware Update and then Manual tab, clicking the RBS radial button, then clicking Update ... up pops the login screen from 192.168.1.2 (satellite). I enter admin and my complex password. Not accepted, so I try the factory default admin/password. Authentification failure.

Anyway - logging in, and the Manual Firmware Update does not seem to work when connected via the RBS20 RJ45 connector.  So this is defect #3...

1: missing devices in Attached Device List

2: can't manually update firmware

3; can't log in to RBS20 using CBR40 password, nor using factory default password after a factory reset.

Post 11 is after a hard RESET and reSYNC ...

Also talked with Indai vie support CHAT ... they argued I should not have to log in to the RBS20 since I already logged in to the CBR40 ... 

So I tried a less secure browser, just in case. I got the same Orbi-mini login pop-up and same login failure.   Maybe I need to regenerate the backchannel admin password ... hmm.

Regenerating the backchannel password the issue unchanged.   Makes me a bit angry Netgear Tech Support (in India, I suspect), argued with me about what I am seeing; especially when the manual even says a second login is needed.  Seriously Netgear, find better tech support agents.

Oh - as far as attached devices goes? Looking at a device that logged into the 5GHz band (SSI50), and Orbi is showing it logged into the 2.4G bands (SSI24).  Obviously this part of the firmware was farmed out.

I'm wondering if the RBS or the entire CBK40 system needs to be replaced or RMAd. Iv'e not seen this issue with mine. If the satellite is not getting admin and PW from the CBR40 after a factory reset and setup from scratch, I would replace the CBK40 system or get it RMAd. 

Since the manual hints I need to provide credentials, hard to say it's an RMA event.    The last variable I can think of is I am connecting to the RBS20 via the GbE port, not wireless.  Maybe some lameness in the RBS port switching that sees wired devices as remote rather than local (for security purposes); and I have PA Isolation on, which may also hamper things. Or I need to be connected to the CBR40, not the RBS20 to do the upgrade.  Who knows at this point.

What is very sad in this one Netgear tech said what I was trying to do was impossible. When I got to another tech, and was going through the whole description process again, their website shout down for maintenance.

Regardless if you have reset the CBR40 and RBS20 and setup from scratch, IF the RBS is not getting the new credentials from the CBR40, then the RBS is at fault and needs to be replaced. You can try the wired connection, however the RBS needs to be fully synced wirelessly with the CBR40 first, then connect the LAN cable. 

Try connecting to the CBR40 to see if it will upgrade the FW on the RBS. 

Overall if nothing gets the RBS20 working correctly, it needs to be replaced. 

Tried every logoical permutation to log into the RBS20,  they all fail.

Notebook Wifi to CBR40, "connecting" wireless to RBS20 (how I installed the system and updated firmware at initial install)

Desktop wired to RBS20, direct connect

Desktop wired to RBS20, wireless to CBR40, "connecting" wireless back to RBS20

Factory RESET of RBS, before SYNC, Desktop wired to RBS20 - unable to get an IP address from RBS20 ... I did not try manually forcing the desktop IP address to the IP range the RBS should have been in (192.168.1.xxx) since there was no arp provider and no reason to expect one is in the RBS when it doesn't even offer DHCP.

The RBS20 simply will not allow any login using credntials I know; as well as in a factory reset condition (admin/password).

For fun: here's part of last nights tech support log:  

-- sidenote: her repeated question "Did you use the orbilogin.com login" begs the question: Is there any other non-web-browser way to log into the Orbi system Netgear isn't telling us about?  Does the phone App have some backdoor that bypasses the http login authentication?

Me
I can't log into the RSB20 using the web interface. It ignores my credentials.
8:33:28 PM
I log into the CBR40, navigate to the MANUAL tab for updating firmware. Then select the satellite, click UPDATE, a login popup appears, I enter admin as the user and my password. I get a autherization failure after two attempots.
8:34:42 PM
Joan B
Oh, I see. Did you use the orbilogin.net to log in to the router first?
8:36:20 PM
Me
If you read what I just typed, please.
8:36:44 PM
Joan B
Sorry, I mean did you use the actual web page to update the modem router and when updating the satellite is ask for another login credentials, is that what you mean? \
8:38:30 PM

At this point I knew that any chance of resolving the issue was near zero.

And here's Netgear tech support responding to my complaint the web interface is only showing seven connected devices, even though more are connected.  This is exactly what they said in their response to my complaint:  they went on to ask me to do some silly completely unrelated things with the SSID; and just accepted the router doesn't show connected devices and ignored that was exactly why I contacted them.

Based on the screenshot you provided and the logs. There are MAC address on the Logs that is not listed on the ATTACHED DEVICES.

Those MAC address are:

DHCP IP: (192.168.1.25)] to MAC address EF:BF
DHCP IP: (192.168.1.23)] to MAC address EA:A8

DHCP IP: (192.168.1.20)] to MAC address 18:88
DHCP IP: (192.168.1.2)] to MAC address 37:A3,

I can only assume Netgear has no interest is supporting their products.

How long have you had the CBK system? 

Short enough you can return it to the place of purchase? 

Try this, factory reset the CBR40. Leave the satelite OFF. After you set up the CBR40 and it's online. Change the IP address from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.0.1. Change the IP pool size to 192.168.0.100 to .200. Save the settings and reboot your connected PC. If you have other devices connected, reboot them as well. After the CBR40 is online, power On the satellite, when it's pulsating WHITE, hit the sync button on the CBR then on the RBS. 

Does the RBS sync at all here? 

vkdelta 

In reading some of the suggestions in online documents for the CBK40, one thing stands out: Netgear is afraid of people upgrading the router firmware before the satellite firmware.  I may have done that since the paper documents I received made no mention of any order dependency, and the natural order for most updates is do the master first, then update slave devices.

I did the initial update of the CBR and RBS using the web interface, and honestly can't remember the order.  One would think the interface update process would do it 'correctly' ... but with what I am seeing, I now have my doubts. 

A full factory reset is on the todo list.  But I am dubious because the RBS didn't give an IP at the last reset, and there is no reason another reset will change behavior.  But The CBR40 was on, maybe the RSB20 started communications with the CBR40 and locked out the DHCP server.  

And pretty confident Amazon won't replace the units at this point: Jan 22 to March 22 would be 60 days ... hmm, maybe they will replace them.  But this isn't Amazon's fault: that rests entirely on Netgear.

And the thing I was concerned about when all this started: the 7 device limit in the Netgear Attached Devices UI?  Well, Netgear tech support is offering all types of suggestions for everything except the problem.  They've convinced me they know the issue well and refuse to admit the UI is broken.  

Yes this has been a known issue with Orbi and upgrading dependencies. The community as a whole has been trying to inform users about upgrading the satellites first, then the main router base. I wish NG would start to put this in there FW release notes and update processes. The satellite does need to be upgraded 1st then the base last. 

Not sure if this will be of any help:

https://kb.netgear.com/31573/How-do-I-manually-upgrade-firmware-on-my-Orbi-Satellite

I turned off the CBR40 to isolate the RBS20 from any odd influence.  Then I did a full "hold reset button until read power led started blinking" and let it whirl until the top lights stopped doing whatever they do. I got my notebook out, direct connected from it to the RBS20.  Poked around trying to find any connection... ipconfig finally reported it had received an address.  Tried orbilogin.com and the 192.168.1.2 the RBS had been reporting in the network. No response. 

Reviewed gateway info, and tried pinging it: 192.168.1.250. Got a response.

Restarted the browser, and entered the 192.168.1.250 address and got a router login page. Entered the default usr/pswd and it took it. It was complaining loudly about not finding a master device. But it allowed me to navigate to a spot where it allowed a firmware update. Entered the filename and pressed go. The page indicated the update had completed, and was waiting for the RBS20 to restart. Finally timed out, but no RBS.  Broken link.

About 20 different reboot/reset/reconnect attempts and the RBS20 was looking bricked.  What had just worked to connect to it failed.

So out of desperation I powered up the master CBR40 and when it was up and running powered on the RBS20.  I pressed the SYNC on the CBR40 and then the SYNC on the RBS20.  Minutes later I had a connection, and the RBS was again functioning, sort of.  Via the CBR40 webpage it reported the RBS had an updated firmware version. 

Then the connection dropped...

Well, multiple on-off-on events at power-on is a common theme with this system; so I waited another few minutes.  It reconnected.  The system is working, but how reliably is unknown. Only time will tell.

Oh - one thing Netgear should really fix is the two minute timeout on the admin webpage ... I blink and have to resubmit credentials.  And this reconnect to the admin pages seems to interrupt normal network traffic.  But this is yet another bug to worry about.

Still have my original issue; and pretty sure I can no longer update the RBS firmware if and when Netgear has a new version.  Via the "last ditch" method I just used, it (the latest patch) is now fully mimicking a bricked device. So whatever they changed, they also turned off the only way I had to do a manual update.  I hope it was intentional, but somehow I suspect it wasn't.  Anyway - with V2.2.1.210 the RBS20 offered DHCP, but not ARP.  With V2.3.0.28 it doesn't even have DHCP.

Has anyone actually seen more than 7 devices reported under Attached Devices?

Furry - have you ever had more than 7 devices connected concurrently to your CBR40 router and tried to view the Attached Device list?  I'm thinking this feature has never worked and would like to see an example of what the UI looks like when more than seven devices are showing.  On my system, there isn't room for more than 7 devices, and there also is no scroll bar in that portion of the UI. 

Pretty sure it is a product defect.

I have had over 30 devices and they all show up. 

I believe you may have a defective system that needs to be replaced. 

Since my trick to log in to the RBS20 succeeded, I hadn't gone back to the web based Manual Upgrade tool.  But I worried I had exhausted ways to do another FW upgrade, so to verify I should replace the system, I retried the web tool last night.  I am surprised and relieved to report that I can now log into the RBS20 ... the FW upgrade fixed the issue I was having with not being able to log into the RBS20 to do upgrades.   

I still have the "half of my devices aren't showing up on the Attached Device list" issue.  6 recently connected devices in the DHCP log, 3 showing.  Also - one device is having issues renewing IP; but I'm not ready to blame the router, but it's a device I use a lot, so it's annoying. 

Got it working huh? What trick did you use? 

---

GWild wrote:

Since my trick to log in to the RBS20 succeeded, I hadn't gone back to the web based Manual Upgrade tool.  But I worried I had exhausted ways to do another FW upgrade, so to verify I should replace the system, I retried the web tool last night.  I am surprised and relieved to report that I can now log into the RBS20 ... the FW upgrade fixed the issue I was having with not being able to log into the RBS20 to do upgrades.   

 

I still have the "half of my devices aren't showing up on the Attached Device list" issue.  6 recently connected devices in the DHCP log, 3 showing.  Also - one device is having issues renewing IP; but I'm not ready to blame the router, but it's a device I use a lot, so it's annoying. 

 

---

A lot of tinkering and accidentally stumbling a cross a combination of IP addresses you wouldn't expect to find or use.  The RBS20 had allocated itself to .250 ... not .1, not .2 ... took a while to discover it.  And the only way I found it was to leave the CBR40 router off, if the two devices even had a second of communication the RBS20 was locked with some secret password.  I tried about 20 different configurations and processes (reset this, power that, power then reset, ...); each taking an hour or so.  Eventually, resetting and waiting 20 minutes, and then then powering down the RBS, then, letting it power up and begin searching for a master to sync with... at that point I connected an ethernet cable and powered on my Win7 notebook -- during that poweron Windows found the RBS20 and got an IP address from it.  The PC was given the address 192.128.1.2.  But the gateway wasn't .1.  I think it was more chance and luck than anything else.  But after I found the weird gateway IP, I tried logging in with a browser and factory credentials. It worked.

After flashing the new firmware, that same sequence no longer worked and had me concerned.  And leads me to believe it was just chance it worked at all.  So I am relieved I can now log in using the normal browser method.

Intereseting. Thanks for letting us know. 

I presume if the RBS is now working, the use of normal methods of accessing the RBS should work now using the IP address it gets from the CBR40. Hope all this won't happen again. Just remember, any future updates, update the RBS first, then the CBR.