NETGEAR is aware of a growing number of phone and online scams. To learn how to stay safe click here.
Forum Discussion
device not connecting to closest satellite
It looks like many have a similar problem. I have an RBR50 along with 2 satellites. My router is on my main floor with 1 satellite upstairs and 1 satellite in the basement. In my master bedroom, I...
schumaku wrote:
Well, this is not how wireless clients are working. We configure them to connect to a certain SSID, the first at that moment best radio will be connected. Decent WiFi clients re-evaluate the situation (alternate BSSIDs - these can be the same or a different band and/or device), modern WiFI clients will also evaluate the RRM radio resource management information providing a list of BSSIDs for the same SSID and re-associate to what the client does find suits better.
Please note that the "We" in "We configure them" is the user of the WiFi device. When the user enables WiFi on a device, the device goes through a process of:
- Searching for WiFi access points by listening for WiFi beacon frames, often on all 11 (or 13 in the EU) 2.4G WiFi channels and also in the 5G WiFi channels. The default setting for most WiFi access points is to broadcast a beacon frame every 102.4ms (almost 10 times a second) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_frame
- After collecting information about available WiFi access points, the device software looks to see if any of the SSID's match a WiFi SSID that the user has set to "connect automatically". If so, the device selects the BSSID that seems most appropriate and makes a connection request.
- If none of the SSID's match one that the user has set to connect automatically, the device displays a list of SSID's and waits for the user to select one.
- This process provides convenience because it can take place totally without user intervention. When the device has no active WiFi connection and one of those "connect automatically" SSID's becomes available, the device can connect without user intervention. This is really helpful when I arrive at home or at the office: Walk in the door, and my phone changes from LTE to WiFi. Lose power, and when power comes back on, every device in the house reconnects without me having to do anything.
What I cannot find information about is (a) the specific process typical WiFi software uses to scan for WiFi access points and make a decision, and (b) which devices continue to scan and which stop looking after they make a connection. i.e. Is it typical to scan all 11 WiFi 2.4G channels and (which?) WiFi 5G channels? How long does a device typically spend scanning? There is a lot going on "under the hood" and it would be really interesting to find references about how it works.
This article, for example, seems pretty clear, but seems to gloss over the basic question raised by this post: "Why are devices picking access points that are so obviously wrong?"
https://netbeez.net/blog/how-wifi-connection-works/
Did the device pick too quickly? Or... what?
I recently purchased a RBKE963B (wifi-6e router w/ 2 satellites) and I am having a similar issue. In my case, the devices start out correctly connected to the satellites, but over several hours (sometimes a day) they tend to migrate from both satellites to the main router. This occurs on all devices: Alexas, PCs, iPads, and Android phones.
This situation is a big deal. It renders the mesh network no different than the single-router network I replaced it with. I've included my setup and details (topology, signal strength measurments, ect) in another post here:
Orbi-WiFi-6-AX-and-WiFi-6E-AXE/RBRE960-Devices-do-not-stay-connected-to-closest-best-satellite
CrimpOn, I have the same questions as to why this is happening. I find it hard to believe that all my devices are making the wrong decision (especially after initially connecting to the best satellite). If the devices are completely responsible for which node they connect to, there must be a condition occurring on the satellites that triggers them to want to move back to the router (temporary outage?).
It's hard to believe that mesh networks, in general, suffer from this issue without every tech blog on the internet steering people away from using them. Is this Netgear specific?
Distance, placement of the main router and RBS are important. Too close will cause problems.
Chris_Z wrote:
I recently purchased a RBKE963B (wifi-6e router w/ 2 satellites) and I am having a similar issue. In my case, the devices start out correctly connected to the satellites, but over several hours (sometimes a day) they tend to migrate from both satellites to the main router. This occurs on all devices: Alexas, PCs, iPads, and Android phones.
"migrate" is the key word. I have experimented with the effect of power cycling the Orbi router. When that is done, my RBR50 Orbii router definitely begins advertizing the WiFi SSID before the satellite does. This might cause devices to connect to the router. If those devices do not search for "a better connection", then they might stay with the router even after a closer (and stronger) satellite connection becomes avialable.
I have no explanation (or theory) for what would cause a device that has selected a stronger satellite connection to switch to a weaker connection. Makes no sense. One hypothesis (theory) is that perhaps the stronger satellite signal disappears for a bit and the device says, "where did my WiFi go?" searches for WiFi. Finds the router. Connects. and quits looking.
A way to test this would be to deliberately power off a satellite, wait a minute, then power it back on. If some devices that were previously connected to the satellite have switched to the router and do not come back, then this might be what is happening. Devices such as iPads and smartphones typically scan the WiFi environment constantly looking for better connections.
This situation definitely calls out for Netgear Engineering to explain what the h**l could be going on. Since this must be a relatively new purchase, I would open a support case with Netgear under the "90 days of complimentary support."
- I have all my satellites connected in a star topology via ethernet. So far, devices seem to balance between each satellite and the router. Most devices seem to appropriately choose the correct satellite. I noticed once a power cycle happens, some devices will pick the router first but will then later move to a closer satellite. As a test, try running cat 6 to all satellites (temporarily) and then power cycle. Leave it this way for a day or so and see if your devices start using the correct satellite. I also see it may take a minute or two (using Orbi app network map) to see device node change.
The other issue, which Netgear tech never gave me a final answer on, is a wireless device can be 10 feet direct line of site to the router and have an excellent signal. However, a wireless device can be the same distance from the satellite and have a fair signal. I've said from day one that maybe the satellite radio has signal issues, as this happens on pretty much every SXK80 Orbi Pro AX6000 WiFi 6 Tri-Band WiFi System, I've installed. Also it does not matter what the distance between the router and satellite is.
CrimpOn wrote:One hypothesis (theory) is that perhaps the stronger satellite signal disappears for a bit and the device says, "where did my WiFi go?" searches for WiFi. Finds the router. Connects. and quits looking.
A way to test this would be to deliberately power off a satellite, wait a minute, then power it back on. If some devices that were previously connected to the satellite have switched to the router and do not come back, then this might be what is happening. Devices such as iPads and smartphones typically scan the WiFi environment constantly looking for better connections.
I did this test, but I've tried so many other things I have forgotten exactly what happened (I'll need to redo this test). I have occassionally seen stationary devices (i.e. PCs, Alexas, Ring Doorbell, etc) migrate back to the satellite from the router, but they don't stay there long. For instance, they'll stay on the satellite for an hour or two, whereas they'll stay on the router for the rest of the time.
As an example, I have a PC in the basement that originally connects to the basement satellite with a -41dBm signal. That PC spent a couple hours there, then it migrated to the main floor router with a signal strength of -60dBm and spent the rest of the day there. Mesh is nice, but for stationary devices in scenarios like this, I wish I had the option of entering the BSSID of the satellite I want to connect to so it would just stay put. (I actually did try it and it asked for the network password, but after entering it, it said it couldn't connect.)
At the risk of .... for stationary devices, there is only one choce if you want to know exactly where the device is connecting: It's a network cable.
Chris_Z wrote:
Mesh is nice, but for stationary devices in scenarios like this, I wish I had the option of entering the BSSID of the satellite I want to connect to so it would just stay put.
That's not on how the standards are drafted. Even less the clients allow something like that.
