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Orbi RBK53 ethernet backhaul issue
I have upgraded my Orbi router and satellites to the latest firmware (2.1.2.18) and I am seeing some weird behavior with regard to what's shown on the "Connected Satellites" section of the orbi route...
I have this exact issue... Please help
MillerHouseTX wrote:
I have this exact issue... Please help
Well, if it helps anyone sleep better…
20 year I.T. nerd who just jumped on the Orbi train. Like many, I wanted Ethernet Backhaul and had problems.
I DO USE CISCO MANAGED SWITCHES!!!!
After a few hours of troubleshooting I found my problem.
FIRST…If you don’t understand STP (Spanning Tree Protocol)…..then go read…I am not teaching STP tonight….It’s too late and I am tired.
I can confirm Orbi (and Orbi Pro) are using STP (NOT RSTP)…What a joke…who doesn’t support Rapid STP today…LOL…I managed to confirm this by changing my STP ID (Prioroty) on my Cisco switch to 61440…AND GUESS WHAT???? My root bridge ID (AKA: MAC) changed to the ORBI ROUTER….This is only possible if Orbi is running STP and has an ID higher or the same ID as my Cisco. I typically use ID=0 for my Cisco….Which would explain the problem.
Orbi wants control of STP…..It’s that simple….And Netgear offers no method to change ANY STP settings in their code….Hence your managed switches with STP will go to WAR with Orbi and make Ethernet backhaul nearly impossible.
STP rules my friends…Highest STP ID WINS! It’s just how STP is designed.
Furthermore. If you have a managed switch with a higher STP ID (Priority), then every time Orbi attempts to change (update) the typology (such as switching from WIFI to Ethernet backhaul)….GUESS WHAT…..Can you say “discarding/blocked state”.
What’s more FUN…is the Satellite that is connected via ethernet now has its port set to discarding….This is forcing the satellite to use its WIFI backhaul and my Cisco switch is “discarding all packets from that Satellite Ethernet port.
So now….My ONLY option is to….DISABLE STP on my satellite port. This will allow a LOOP. BAD!!!!
But I must put my TRUST into Netgears hands….and hope the code is smart enough to send all client MACs down the ethernet port and not the WIFI port…God knows if my switch STP sees MACs coming from both the Sat ethernet port and the main Orbi router ethernet port (which will happen if clients MAC take both paths via the WIFI backhaul….)….well….we network nerds know what happens then….LOOP…DISGARD all packets….or broadcast storm (should you disable STP) and your entire LAN crashes…..
So, my config I am rolling with is….STP enabled on my Cisco (only STP, not RSPT…Orbi doesn’t support RSTP…STUPID)…..
Disable STP on Satellite ports….This allows MACs to take both ethernet and WIFI backhaul paths.
Insure STP is enabled on the Main Orbi router ethernet port. AP mode or Router mode, doesn’t matter. This will protect you from a packet loop crash.
This config will allow your Orbi Sat to ALWAYS be able to communicate with the main Orbi regardless of STP status. After that…its entirely up to the Orbi Sat to establish its ethernet backhaul….a reboot will surely be required as the Orbo code is REALLY STUPID…..My GUESS is the Orbi detects Ethernet during boot and if it can contact the Main Orbi via Ethernet…then it prefers that connection and will switch-off the 5Ghz backhaul which I confirmed by logging into the Sat directly and observing the 5Ghz backhaul DISBALED when using ethernet…
But, if that Ethernet drops and Orbi Sat can’t communicate with the main Orbi (due to STP blocking, power outage or other reasons..)…it rolls back to 5Ghz backhaul and doesn’t seem smart enough to switch back to ethernet….without another reboot. Again…stupid….
Hoped this helped those with managed switches and using Orni with ethernet backhaul.
Surely Netgear could have done this better….
An EASY fix would be for Netgear to allow STP to be DISABLED and let our managed switches handle STP….
And really…RSTP would fix this easily….Why are you not using RSTP?….Do you have any idea how long it takes classic STP to update topology when connections change….REALLY….??????
I spent 10 minutes looking at my RSTP stats…then it hit me….My Orbi ports shows STP….NOT RSTP mode. I tried to force an RSTP migration…But nope…Your Orbi’s kicked by STP mode back to classic….LAME!!!!
Orbi is using STP ID 32768 (STP Default Priority).
I decided to write an updated version of the Orbi (and Orbi Pro) STP (Spanning Tree Protocol) instructions. This is for users who have managed switches and trying to use Orbi Ethernet Backhaul. Those with unmanaged switches should not have any problems with Ethernet Backhaul.
- Orbi uses Classic STP. Do not try to use Rapid STP. Hopefully Netgear will change this in a future update.
- Orbi uses the default STP Priority (AKA: ID) of 32768. Orbi does not allow any modifications of STP settings. Again, hopefully they will change this in the future, at minimum they should Allow Orbi STP to be disabled for those with managed switches.
- Your L2 managed switch should have STP Enabled. Again, use Classic STP should you have a choice between STP and RSTP. Orbi is STP only.
- All switches in you LAN “MUST HAVE” an STP Priority of 32768. Do not change your STP priority or Orbi Ethernet backhaul will not work properly. AKA: It may work, then break and cause other undesired problems.
- Using an ID higher priority than Orbi will cause your switch to STP Block/discard the Orbi Satellite ports, forcing the Satellites into WIFI Backhaul mode.
- Using a lower priority STP ID will allow Orbi to take STP Root Bridge role and most likely create loops and crash your LAN. Plus, any network nerd who cares about security, stability and visibility DOES NOT want Orbi becoming a root bridge of the LAN.
- Using 32768 allows each switch (both Orbi and your switch) to become their individual “root bridge” for STP and prevents Orbi and your switches going to WAR and arguing “who has control”.
- Your Main Orbi Router (using AP or Router mode) must have STP enabled on its switch port with NO MODIFICATIONS. STP, Auto-Edge, Default Cost, etc, etc…no changes…..
- ALL ORBI SATELITES USING ETHERNET BACKHAUL MUST HAVE STP ENABLED….BUT….
- Edge Mode must be forced “ON”. AKA: Port Fast mode ON. I know some network nerds are thinking…”Why would I force an STP BPDU device to use PortFast mode?”….Simple answer…Orbi is using Classic STP and Auto-Edge (AKA: Learning Mode) will take too long and your Orbi Satellites will give up and switch to WIFI Backhaul. After that…you are screwed and must reboot your satellites…or wait 15-20 minutes for Orbi Satellite to “hopefully” try again. Classic STP is SLOW and your Orbi Satellites will need to wait 20-60 seconds for STP to decide if the connection should be allowed…which is why Rapid STP was created YEARS AGO…..Why Netgear is using Classic…I don’t know.
- DO NOT DISABLE STP!!! Doing this will cause a network loop and most likely crash your network. Even though you are forcing the Satellite ports to use PortFast Mode (AKA: Edge Mode Enabled…Not Auto). STP will still serve its basic function and protect against network loops. If you disable STP on the Satellite ports….No protection and Orbi will create a loop.
That’s is. Using this config should allow your Satellites to use Ethernet Backhaul with minimal problems via manages switches. Orbi does take a few minutes to determine what path to use. So don’t expect instant results. Give Orbi 5-10 minutes and check the Satellite connection status.
If Your Orbi is rebooted it “should” go back ed wired mode after a few minutes.
But, without a proper STP configuration as described above….NO CHANCE….Or very unstable results.
Shame on Netgear for not allow STP Enable/Disable. Especially for Orbi Pro.
Flash:
THANK YOU! Man, I need a cigarette after reading that post (and I don't smoke).
I'm an IT guy myself. For switching I use Cisco at work, and Ubiquiti at home, but I didn't pickup on the STP BS. Now it all makes sense. I was about to take these Orbis back to the store. I've been screwing around with these MFers instead of doing funner things this whole weekend. In my home I've got my Orbis plugged into a PoE, manageable Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch. I wish they supported PoE, but I don't really expect it from consumer products. Anyway, I'll switch RSTP over to STP and set their priority.
Now I'm wondering if I should plug them into a device that will chop the power from time to time. I suppose I'll take a wait and see approach to that.