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Forum Discussion
RBR50 satellites (RBS50) drop WiFi connections frequently, randomly
I have an Orbi RBR50 and two RBS50 satellites, and I cannot seem to get reliable connections (with a phone or laptop) when close to either satellite.
The Orbi devices are a couple of years old, currently running firmware V2.5.2.4; but I have upgraded the firmware several times over the past couple of years, with similar connection issues with each version. There is only one somewhat close neighboring house, and if I scan for wireless networks, the only other wireless network that I see is that neighbor's and it's only showing about 1 out of 5 signal strength.
This is in a long narrow house about 60ft long by 24ft wide (2 stories), with conventional wood stud and sheetrock construction (no metal studs or concrete walls). The internet is provided through a Surfboard SB6141 cable modem router. The RBR50 is about in the center of the house on the second floor; one RBS50 is close to one end of the house on the second floor, and the other RBS50 is at the opposite end of the house on the first floor (and this one is intended to also provide signal for the back patio and the front deck at that end of the house). Each satellite is approximately 25ft from the router. I have tried moving the satellites to a few different locations in the general area where they are located, sometimes a bit closer to the router.
If I'm physically close to either satellite device (with a phone or laptop), the connection to the internet is very unreliable; it will randomly drop connection and then re-connect again shortly afterwards. I'm not sure, but I think the satellite is still keeping its connection to the base router, but it is dropping connections to devices (phones or laptops). When the loss of connection is happening - if I watch the WiFi connections on one of the cell phones, it will often switch back and forth between the primary and guest wireless networks (I have both saved on the phones), and sometimes for short periods it will show connected, but no internet; and then after a little while, it will recover and work again for a few minutes. If I'm close to the primary router, then the wireless connections are solid and stable. I encounter similar unreliable connections on both phones and also on both laptops if they are close to either satellite. When the connection is valid for a few minutes, it seems to be a good connection to the internet - for example, I can do a speedtest at fast.com and it shows me similar speeds as when I am connected sitting within a couple of feet of the primary router.
There are typically about 20 devices connected to the WiFi - 2 phones, 2 laptops, Amazon Echo devices, Roku devices, smart TVs, ceiling fans with WiFi controls, Ring doorbell, etc.
I have read several posts about similar issues, and I have tried changing many of the options suggested in some of those - such as 20/40MHz coexistence, implicit beamforming, MU-MIMO, channels, changing the transmit power control, etc. I have not been rigorously scientific about making these changes and combinations of the settings, but nothing has seemed to help.
When I have the satellites powered on, the backhaul status shows as "good"; but these days I have mostly resorted to leaving the satellites turned off. This gives me less signal strength at the ends of the house and even less outside the house, but does seem to provide a stable connection everywhere.
What is the ideal distance that a satellite should be from the router? What settings should I change to provide a reliable connection from the satellites? Is there an inherent issue in this router/satellite configuration that can't be resolved? Are there any troubleshooting steps that I can take to track down what's causing the disconnects through the satellites?
16 Replies
I'm not an "expert" but I'll attempt to answer your questions.
1) "What is the ideal distance that a satellite should be from the router?" The optimum distance for satellite placement is very dependant on your house's configuration and building materials–as well as your furniture placement and appliance locations. Normally, the recommended minimum distance is 30 feet.
2) "What settings should I change to provide a reliable connection from the satellites?" This also depends on what your current settings are. Please list your current settings, e.g., channels, beamforming on/off, etc.. My opinion is either the guest network is causing your problem or your satellites and router are too close together. Be absolutly certain the satellites and router are running the exact same firmware version!
3) "Is there an inherent issue in this router/satellite configuration that can't be resolved?" The simple answer is, "No". However, every situation is different. One more question is do you have "Daisy Chain" on or off? It may take several hours of methodically changing locations, settings, and /or devices to resolve but 99% of issues can be resolved.
4) "Are there any troubleshooting steps that I can take to track down what's causing the disconnects through the satellites?" Yes. First list all your settings and members of this forum will chime in with suggestions. I'd check for neighboring WiFi signals and deconflict channels first. Next I'd make my phones "forget" the network and reconfirure the phones for only the main netowrk. Thirdly, I'd turn off the guest network unless needed. Allow the ORBI 10-20 minutes between changes to "settle" before doing any testing. Good Luck!
First of all, thank you very much for your detailed response.
A few answers to your questions.
(1) I currently have the downstairs satellite placed in the furthest corner of the downstairs, and it's close to 30 feet from the router; I can't move it any further away. I moved it here recently, and it seems to be less reliable here than when I had it closer to the router (at about 20 feet). Do you think it would help if I changed the "Transmit Power Control" to a lower value?
(2) The router and both satellites are all running the same firmware version (V2.5.2.4), and this seems to be the latest available version. I can't really get the satellites any further away inside the house from the router. If possible, I would like to keep the guest network enabled (I have devices like Echo, Ring, etc. connected to the guest network to limit their ability to connect to devices on the primary network).
My current settings are listed here.
In Advanced-Advanced Setup-Wireless Settings
2.4GHz:
Checked: Enable SSID Broadcast
Checked: Enable 20/40 MHz Coexistence
Checked: Enable WMM (Wi-Fi multimedia) settings
CTS/RTS Threshold: 2347
Preamble Mode: Automatic
Transmit Power Control: 50%5GHz:
UNchecked: Enable SSID Broadcast
Checked: Enable WMM (Wi-Fi multimedia) settings
CTS/RTS Threshold: 2347
Preamble Mode: Automatic
Transmit Power Control: 50%UNchecked: Enable Daisy-Chain Topology
Checked: Enable Implicit BEAMFORMING
Checked: Enable MU-MIMO
UNchecked: Enable Fast RoamingOther settings:
Wireless Network:
2.4GHz Channel: Auto
5GHz Channel: 48
Security Options: WPA2-PSK [AES]Set to "Router Mode"
Checked: Use Router as DHCP Server(3) The Daisy chain setting is off, and I don't think I have ever had it enabled. I have tried various combinations of settings in the past, but as I mentioned I haven't been strictly scientific in my approach to changing and testing the settings.
(4) My current settings are listed above. Are there any other settings that you want to know about? There is only one neighbor close enough that I can see the WiFi signal from that house (for example if I scan for available networks on my phone or laptop), and it's a low strength signal (1 or 2 bars out of 5). There is a street full of houses nearby, but they are all more than 1000 feet away. I can try removing the guest network from my phone and see whether that helps. However, on my laptop, I only have the primary network setup and that also loses connection to the satellite at times if I am sitting close to the satellite.
Again, thanks for your responses and for any help or suggestions you can offer.
You may want to manually update FW on the RBS first then RBR lastly.
PhillipD wrote:I have an Orbi RBR50 and two RBS50 satellites, and I cannot seem to get reliable connections (with a phone or laptop) when close to either satellite.
The Orbi devices are a couple of years old, currently running firmware V2.5.2.4; but I have upgraded the firmware several times over the past couple of years, with similar connection issues with each version. There is only one somewhat close neighboring house, and if I scan for wireless networks, the only other wireless network that I see is that neighbor's and it's only showing about 1 out of 5 signal strength.
This is in a long narrow house about 60ft long by 24ft wide (2 stories), with conventional wood stud and sheetrock construction (no metal studs or concrete walls). The internet is provided through a Surfboard SB6141 cable modem router. The RBR50 is about in the center of the house on the second floor; one RBS50 is close to one end of the house on the second floor, and the other RBS50 is at the opposite end of the house on the first floor (and this one is intended to also provide signal for the back patio and the front deck at that end of the house). Each satellite is approximately 25ft from the router. I have tried moving the satellites to a few different locations in the general area where they are located, sometimes a bit closer to the router.
If I'm physically close to either satellite device (with a phone or laptop), the connection to the internet is very unreliable; it will randomly drop connection and then re-connect again shortly afterwards. I'm not sure, but I think the satellite is still keeping its connection to the base router, but it is dropping connections to devices (phones or laptops). When the loss of connection is happening - if I watch the WiFi connections on one of the cell phones, it will often switch back and forth between the primary and guest wireless networks (I have both saved on the phones), and sometimes for short periods it will show connected, but no internet; and then after a little while, it will recover and work again for a few minutes. If I'm close to the primary router, then the wireless connections are solid and stable. I encounter similar unreliable connections on both phones and also on both laptops if they are close to either satellite. When the connection is valid for a few minutes, it seems to be a good connection to the internet - for example, I can do a speedtest at fast.com and it shows me similar speeds as when I am connected sitting within a couple of feet of the primary router.
There are typically about 20 devices connected to the WiFi - 2 phones, 2 laptops, Amazon Echo devices, Roku devices, smart TVs, ceiling fans with WiFi controls, Ring doorbell, etc.
I have read several posts about similar issues, and I have tried changing many of the options suggested in some of those - such as 20/40MHz coexistence, implicit beamforming, MU-MIMO, channels, changing the transmit power control, etc. I have not been rigorously scientific about making these changes and combinations of the settings, but nothing has seemed to help.
When I have the satellites powered on, the backhaul status shows as "good"; but these days I have mostly resorted to leaving the satellites turned off. This gives me less signal strength at the ends of the house and even less outside the house, but does seem to provide a stable connection everywhere.
What is the ideal distance that a satellite should be from the router? What settings should I change to provide a reliable connection from the satellites? Is there an inherent issue in this router/satellite configuration that can't be resolved? Are there any troubleshooting steps that I can take to track down what's causing the disconnects through the satellites?
Thanks for the suggestion.
I manually upgraded the firmware to V2.6.1.40, from the link that you provided, upgrading the satellites first and then the router, and rebooting the satellites. I then discovered that there is a V2.7.1.60 (for US only), so I downloaded and installed that version (satellites first and then the router). After that, the web interface for the router informed me that there was a later version and offered to upgrade the devices. I found that version (V2.7.2.102) on the Netgear site, downloaded the two packages, and upgraded the satellites and the router. After that, I decided to generate a new backhaul password, and then remove, reset, and re-sync each satellite. (The downstairs satellite failed the re-sync a couple of times until I moved it somewhat closer.) With each of these versions, the satellites were still disconnecting at times.
After the upgrade to V2.7.2.102 and the re-sync of both satellites, I then tried changing the power setting for both frequencies to 100%, then to 25%, and then back to the 50% that I've had it set to for a while. I also tried changing the 2.4GHz channel from "Auto" to 6. And I also changed both satellites to a fixed IP address (reserved address in the advanced LAN setup). None of this has seemed to help. If I have the web UI for the router open, refreshing the "attached devices" page shows the "backhaul status" for the satellites varying among "Good", "Config Sync", and "Disconnected".
Sounds as if you've tried all the usual troubleshooting steps. Is there a reason you have both frequencies set to 50% power? Normally, that is only done on one (usually 2.4 Ghz) to force dual freq devices to stay on one freq. Here's a few other steps to try:
1) Try keeping 2.4 Ghz at 50% power and setting 5 Ghz to 100%. Let that configuration settle at least overnight.
2) If step 1 doesn't give you a stable system, try turning off the guest network. Again allow that to settle for several hours.
3) What type of phones/laptops do you have? If Apple, what OS? Recent iOS updates have added a "private mode" that sends out random MAC addresses to prevent bad actors easy access to your devices. This mode should be turned off in most secure (home) environments.
4) Finally, try a factory reset of the satellites and router and do a system reconfiguration from scratch. This is the "nuclear option" but it does seem to solve the most difficult issues. DO NOT reconfigure from a backup config file! One of the reasons the factory reset usually works is it clears out "cruft" from the ORBI's memory. Using a backup config file can reintroduce corrupt files back into a clean system.
BTW, did you tell your phones to forget the network and reinitialize them? How about power cycling your modem after the firmware updates? Good Luck!
You said you disabled the 5Ghz SSID, why is that?
>>>>
5GHz:
UNchecked: Enable SSID Broadcast<<<<<
Under normal conditions device WiFi connections will dynamically switch between 5Ghz and 2.4 depending on signal strength (assuming your devices do both bands). The 5G has the fastest speed so good to be connected to it if you're close enough. So, with the SSID off on the 5Ghz WiFi signal this could this be causing a problem. I've never tried running with it off.
Also someone else mentioned.... Don't have both the Guest and private WiFi set to connect in your devices, just have one active which I agree. What I do in my IOS devices is have only one configured to "connect automatically" - though I have them configured with the password saved to make it easier to manually switch over to the other SSID.
Another approach I've taken is to connect devices to the Guest WiFi that don't have to see each other in the home network, and unchecking "Allow Guests to see each other and access my local network." Many "internet of things" devices only need to, and commuincate through, the manufacturer's 'mothership' via the WAN. So, being on Guest isolates these devices from the shared files and folders on my computers that are wired and on the private SSID. Just a bit of paranoia in play here.I have wired satellites so haven't had to go through finding the sweet-spot location challenge here. Hope you find a solution, I have the same system and have been happy with it.
I also used to be happy with my orbi system until 2 weeks ago, when satellite started to fail dropping connections and now the router .
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBS50-Connectivity-problems-and-Issues/m-p/2048133#M112923
