RBS50 only connecting at 2.4ghz backhaul

Hello harryballzanya,

Please factory reset your Orbi Mesh System then check for connectivity stabilization. 

Best,

Kevin

Community Team

KevinLiT, will do.  For this do you recommend full factory reset from the GUI's Backup Settings page or the paperclip button method?

Hello harryballzanya,

I recommend the paperclip button method 30.30.30 reset method.

For reference follow the steps below:

Hold down the reset button for 30 seconds, keep it pressed while you unplug the router from the power source for 30 more seconds, and then plug it back in while keeping the button held down for an additional 30 seconds.

Best,

Kevin

Community Team

Thanks, KevinLiT.  I'll give this a shot and report back.

I performed the factory reset and still have issues. For whatever reason the RBS50 is still dropping its WAN connection.  I'm stumped as to why this is happening all of the sudden.

It looks to me like you have nothing to lose by temporarily relocating the satellite to the same room as the router.

When plugged in (and given a few minutes to stabilize), how does Attached Devices show it connected?

Do you have a device with an Ethernet port that can connect directly to the satellite to test that it has Internet access?

(desktop? laptop?)

Ok...the test post worked. CrimpOn I haven't had the chance to collocate RBR and RBS yet, but given the info from the below debug log, it looks to me as though it's definitely a signal issue...probably kryptonite in the building materials.

ath03     IEEE 802.11ng  ESSID:"NETGEAR-Guest" 

          Mode:Master  Frequency:2.462 GHz  Access Point: Not-Associated  

          Bit Rate:0 kb/s   Tx-Power:29 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Encryption key:off

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=0/94  Signal level=-95 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath02     IEEE 802.11ng  ESSID:"NETGEAR_ORBI_hidden15" 

          Mode:Managed  Frequency:2.462 GHz  Access Point: C6:A5:11:A3:B4:A6  

          Bit Rate:400 Mb/s   Tx-Power:29 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=94/94  Signal level=-47 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath0      IEEE 802.11ng  ESSID:"***" 

          Mode:Master  Frequency:2.462 GHz  Access Point: C2:A5:11:9D:F9:9C  

          Bit Rate:400 Mb/s   Tx-Power:29 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Encryption key:87F3-4952-916D-AB8A-5673-8383-7BFB-EAF9 [2]   Security mode:restricted

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=94/94  Signal level=-97 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:50239  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath1      IEEE 802.11ac  ESSID:"***" 

          Mode:Master  Frequency:5.22 GHz  Access Point: BC:A5:11:9D:F9:9E  

          Bit Rate:866.7 Mb/s   Tx-Power:29 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Encryption key:7E4D-5919-37B8-B53C-7895-25EF-9974-EF29 [2]   Security mode:restricted

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=94/94  Signal level=-97 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:5151  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath2      IEEE 802.11ac  ESSID:"NETGEAR_ORBI_hidden15" 

          Mode:Master  Frequency:5.785 GHz  Access Point: BC:A5:11:9D:F9:9F  

          Bit Rate:1.7333 Gb/s   Tx-Power:30 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Encryption key:25B7-B84E-2B6F-D926-A62A-EE74-32C5-D885 [2]   Security mode:restricted

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=94/94  Signal level=-97 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:1897  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath01     IEEE 802.11ng  ESSID:"NETGEAR_ORBI_hidden15" 

          Mode:Master  Frequency:2.462 GHz  Access Point: C6:A5:11:9D:F9:9C  

          Bit Rate:400 Mb/s   Tx-Power:29 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Encryption key:57D5-7E3E-41DD-7E28-DB7C-6387-1C1F-C526 [2]   Security mode:restricted

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=94/94  Signal level=-97 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:50338  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath11     IEEE 802.11ac  ESSID:"NETGEAR-Guest" 

          Mode:Master  Frequency:5.22 GHz  Access Point: Not-Associated  

          Bit Rate:0 kb/s   Tx-Power:29 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Encryption key:off

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=0/94  Signal level=-95 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

ath21     IEEE 802.11ac  ESSID:"NETGEAR_ORBI_hidden15" 

          Mode:Managed  Frequency:5.785 GHz  Access Point: BC:A5:11:A3:B4:A9  

          Bit Rate:1.7333 Gb/s   Tx-Power:30 dBm  

          RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off

          Power Management:off

          Link Quality=89/94  Signal level=-60 dBm  Noise level=-95 dBm

          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0

          Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0

Hey.

While this doesn't help at all, I'm feeling somewhat re-assured we're in the same boat. As I think you mentioned, I haven't had any issues for probably over a year and suddenly having almost daily issues.

When you experience the 'dropping WAN Connection', what's that exactly like for you?

For me, I've observed the following based upon the following setup:

- New property built within the last 15 years

- Router is located in Lounge, connected to my PlusNet internet router

- Devices connecting to the Router experience no issue

- I primarily work in my office one floor up.

- We have a 2 story house but I'd say it equates to a midsize multi-storey house from this link: https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite?article=31029

- Satellite is in the office. I have both Wired and Wireless devices connected to Satellite

- Physically, I have not moved the placement, rotation / position of either the Satellite or Router, not do we have any new furniture or tech within the house. 

I am now more aware of the problem because I'm trying to connect remotely to virtual machines / desktops and its here where I first notice the connection drop, second to hearing the drivers in my NAS device which is placed on the table next to the satellite and connected via LAN. 

- Numerous times, I've been aware the connection from the Satellite to the Router has gone because I've lost internet connectivity, however, I'm 95% sure I have on multiple occasions been able to still connect between devices connected via the Satellite, i.e. Remote Desktop from one machine to another if both connected to Satellite.

- As mentioned above, I keep hearing my NAS drives spinning up / down. Checking the QNAP page, I can now see this is reporting that the LAN Port has disconnected repeatedly, for example, today its already disconnected 16 times. I haven't noticed this on my iMAC as this was connected via LAN however that's not to say it wasn't happening.

I believe the drop in internet connectivity (or connectivity between Satellite / Router) is when its switching between 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz Backhaul - it does go between both but its favouring 2.4Ghz at the moment. Would that sound similar for you? i.e. if you power cycle satellite (and / or router), it tends to start at 5ghz, then drops to 2.4Ghz. It takes maybe 10 seconds, sometimes up to a minute to re-establish and for devices to work again. 

- Unlike the QNAP reporting the LAN port disconnecting, I haven't seen my iPhone showing no Wi-Fi.

Being honest, I haven't tried moving mine yet which I know is the first thing I need to do, just its a hassle as I have devices connected into the Satellite. 

I found this article online in which another user was experiencing what sounds like the same issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/orbi/comments/pv4oq5/rbs50_satellite_constantly_loses_wifi_backhaul_to/

- The user updated their original post to say they fixed the issue by change the channel used by the 5Ghz BackHaul. I'm aware NetGear removed the Telnet enablement option in earlier firmware so this needs to be enabled via a Python Script, however dubious to that at the moment as it keeps tripping my Anti-Virus Scanner.

I wasn't sure how to SSH onto the router / Satellite if anyone can elaborate on that?

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desktopdoug wrote:

 

I believe the drop in internet connectivity (or connectivity between Satellite / Router) is when its switching between 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz Backhaul - it does go between both but its favouring 2.4Ghz at the moment. Would that sound similar for you? i.e. if you power cycle satellite (and / or router), it tends to start at 5ghz, then drops to 2.4Ghz. It takes maybe 10 seconds, sometimes up to a minute to re-establish and for devices to work again. 

 

I, too, think this is exactly what's happening to me, too.  I've tried posting info from my debug logs about 6 times but it's clearly getting deleted by the system for whatever reason.  I've noticed the 5ghz backhaul channel signal go from -95 to maybe -48.  When it's over -60 it tends to stay connected at 5ghz backhaul.  Anything less than that will drop it to 2.4ghz.  I believe when the backhaul is transitioning is also when I lose access to the internet.  WiFi connection is still strong, but there's no connection to the WAN.

 

My home office is in the basement and I decided to place my modem and router there.  I placed the satellite one floor above, almost exactly above the office.  There's maybe 50 feet of separation, but I believe something is interfering with the signal.  The home was built about 20 years ago, so I'm not entirely sure what could be wreaking such havoc on this connection.

 

I'm wondering if it would make sense at this point to acquire additional RBS50s and essentially collocate one on the same floor as the router, but closer to a satellite on the floor above it in an effort to create a strong daisy chain.

 

 I, too, haven't had the opportunity to reposition in the same room as the router.  I still need to do that and run the debug log to see if it improves the signal to noise ratio at all.

 

Not sure how to telnet into the satellites/router at this stage, either.

 

 

 

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harryballzanya wrote:

---

My home office is in the basement and I decided to place my modem and router there.  I placed the satellite one floor above, almost exactly above the office.  There's maybe 50 feet of separation, but I believe something is interfering with the signal.  The home was built about 20 years ago, so I'm not entirely sure what could be wreaking such havoc on this connection.

---

I am having difficulty visualizing this:

• Router is in the basement.
• Satellite is one floor above, almost exactly above router.
• maybe 50 feet of separation

How can this be? 12-15 ft. I can see. 50 feet? Impossible.

The never ending dream of having an all wireless network...

In general, wireless works excellent within line of sight, works good in line of indirect light, allows a connection if not very RF isolating walls and floors are in the path.

Not true is that 2.4 GHz is more "powerful", the lower frequencies are less prone to radio signal attenuation. Certain 5 GHz channels allow up to 1 W EIRP, everything depends on the regulatory domain. 2.4 GHz allows workable connections, within the physical limitation (much less bandwidth available), but less "resistance" by materials. Most of these free bands are limited to about 200 mW EIRP.

Modern floor construction (certainly over here in old Europe) as used from small houses to larger multi story apartment buildings  does easy span 35..45 cm. Static concrete-iron floors, underfloor heating, footfall sound insulation, vapor barrier (often metalized), ceramic bricks, ceramic flooring for each floor, then sand-lime bricks (mainly in wet areas, cellars, ...) and clay bricks for walls in single layers in-house, and dual-layer outside, where again vapor barrier (often metalized), and recently more and more hard ceramics or sintered materials for the weather and dirt protection (popular in Asia for a much longer time). These materials are reliable 5..6..and up to 60 GHz killers, leaving the opportunity for 2.4 GHz typically. If it's 15 of 50 ft does not matter, because most of this "difference" is free air.

Said that: Unless there is open vertical space, open staircase, gallery, atrium, any kind of wireless backhaul is rarely making a "great" solution as implied by the nice marketing slides and images. Even for horizontal distribution, it often leads to just "wireless coverage", bot rarely to a well performing system. And yes, 2.4 GHz does not have the physical bandwidth available by regulations to offer a great backhaul. Not the best consumer or business mesh products can change these hard facts.

You're right, CrimpOn ... I misspoke. The satellite is above, but angled away on the other side of a room on the main floor.  I'd say ~25' in a straight line.

I did try positioning the satellite in the kitchen as close to being directly above as possible, which would have only been about 12-15' and actually had worse results.

Ok, I finally moved the RBS to the same room as the router.  I have them spaced about 16' apart, line of sight. I just attempted to pair the RBS to the RBR and the setup initially failed and went magenta on RBS before going to blue on RBS.  Once connected, the RBS is still only connecting at 2.4ghz.

Running a debug report shows me that the 5ghz backhaul channel signal is -95 and noise is -95. Link quality is 0/94.

If this remains the case for more than 15 minutes, I believe the satellite is broken.  At the very least, I would do a factory reset on the satellite.

Antennas leveled out at I connected to 5G. I really don't think there's anything physically wrong with the RBK system.  It worked perfectly fine in my last house.  The only variable over the last month is the new house.

Therefore, I agree with everyone's assessment about the building materials. So, I believe I have devised a way to fish Cat 6 down to the basement so I can enable a wired backhaul situation. 

I'll keep everyone posted.

Hi harryballzanya,

Do you have the ability to see if your orbit devices were doing the same as mine, as per my recent post (Post number 8 I think where I've linked 3 screenshots.)  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBS50-Connection-Type-2-4Ghz/m-p/2237629/highlight/false#M134292

Just interested to know whether, when your satellite has switched from 5Ghz to 2.4Ghz, can you then see two different 'hidden' 5ghz backhaul channels in use?

When its connected on 5Ghz, I can see two devices broadcasting on the same channel, the satellite and the router. 

You would need a Wifi analyser to see this. I used the free Wifi Analyser for Windows 10 / Windows 11 available from the Microsoft Store: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/wifi-analyzer/9NBLGGH33N0N?hl=en-gb&gl=gb&icid=CNavAppsWindowsApps

Or I think you can get similar on Android mobile devices if you have one.

I wouldn't expect the satellite to change the backhaul 5ghz channel to a different one from the router so its confusing me.

Thanks

Doug

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desktopdoug wrote:

Hi harryballzanya,

 

Do you have the ability to see if your orbit devices were doing the same as mine, as per my recent post (Post number 8 I think where I've linked 3 screenshots.)  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBS50-Connection-Type-2-4Ghz/m-p/2237629/highlight/false#M134292

 

Just interested to know whether, when your satellite has switched from 5Ghz to 2.4Ghz, can you then see two different 'hidden' 5ghz backhaul channels in use?

When its connected on 5Ghz, I can see two devices broadcasting on the same channel, the satellite and the router. 

 

You would need a Wifi analyser to see this. I used the free Wifi Analyser for Windows 10 / Windows 11 available from the Microsoft Store: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/wifi-analyzer/9NBLGGH33N0N?hl=en-gb&gl=gb&icid=CNavAppsWindowsApps

 

Or I think you can get similar on Android mobile devices if you have one.

 

I wouldn't expect the satellite to change the backhaul 5ghz channel to a different one from the router so its confusing me.

 

Thanks

Doug

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desktopdoug I replied to your post in your own thread about the in-line images not being approved by a moderator yet.  When you're able to either attach them or get them approved I'll take a look.  I have been able to ~90% determine that the connection drops when the satellite is switching from 5ghz to 2.4ghz backhaul (and vice versa).  I haven't gotten back into inSSIDer to see about the channels.  Once I see your screen shots I'll see if I'm showing the same things.

Although, as CrimpOn said, I really think I'm dealing with a matter of inches and feet of signal issues and it's simply a game of finding the best location in this house, which is why I'm resolved to just hardwiring for backhaul.  I'm waiting for some Cat6 and a fiberglass cable fishing tool to arrive from Amazon, but I have a feeling this will be a chore in and of itself due to locations of everything, insulation getting in the way, etc.

For anyone curious, I plan to run the Cat6 through an existing coax plate in the wall on the main level of the house and feed it down to the basement because I know where the coax runs and can easily follow it without (hopefully) the need to drill any new holes).  I'll fish the Cat6 to the router in the basement.  The idea is to plug the offending satellite on the main level into the new Cat6 wall jack, which will be directly linked to the router in the basement.

In the meantime, I need to read up on wired backhaul.  I've been an Orbi user for around 5 years and have always used wireless backhaul.

I will continue to report on my successes and failures for posterity.

Well, the wired backhaul solution I was attempting hit a snag...I can't find any good way to run Cat6 between floors at this point.

I have two, additional RBS50s heading my way from a friend who no longer uses them.  Here's what I will attempt when they arrive:

One satellite will remain in the basement (we'll call it RBS1) near the router, but in another room directly beneath a satellite on the first floor (RBS2).  My hope is if I use daisy chain topology I can get a strong, stable signal between RBS1 and RBS2.  The third satellite (RBS3) will be on the second floor.  Again, my hope is RBS2 will be able to send establish a strong connection with RBS3 and the daisy chain will be complete.

If anyone reading this has any thoughts on the plan I'd love to hear it.