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Forum Discussion
Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'
Just downloaded the latest release V1.9.1.12 and noticed in the official release notes from Netgear it states as fix 'Continious Improvement in wireless connection stability'..Dosent spefically makre...
I ran into an issue with this latest firmware. I am getting consistent packet loss every 15-25 minutes. Sometimes it's small blips and other times it's long enough to kick me out of Overwatch games. I jumped through hoops trying to figure out the problem but have confirmed that it's this firmware update. Keep in mind I use my Orbi's in AP mode.
The biggest pain in the ass was that there was no warning on my Orbi about updates. It doesn't tell you that an update was done. Also the Netgear website doesn't mention release dates of the firmware versions for the Orbi.
What I did to determine issue:
- I ran pingplotter to determine if my packet loss was coming from within my network or ISP related. I lost packets to gateway IP as well as Internet so it was on my local network.
- I swapped out my firewall/router. I was using the Edgerouter Lite from Ubiquiti. I put in my old Asus AC68U in Router mode (Disabled WiFi Radios). Packet loss continued.
- I thought it was the wireless card on my computer for a bit so I bought another one at my local store. Specifically the Archer T9UH. The packet loss continued. So I returned that.
- I bought the TP-Link RE450 "Range Extender" because maybe my wireless issues were Windows 10 related and used it as a bridge only for my Desktop. Ethernet attached from Windows 10 Desktop to RE450. All extender features were disabled and I connected the RE450 at 5Ghz to Orbi, disabled 2.4ghz completely. Packet loss continued.
- I then turned off all my Orbi's and enabled the Asus AC68U wireless and all my problems went away. My coverage wasn't as good but at least my WiFi was stable. No issues for several hours.
- Put my Orbi's back up and disabled WiFi on AC68U and packet loss came back within 20 minutes.
I came to these forums to see if anyone else was having issues like mine. That's when I noticed a new firmware announcement and the approximate release date coincided with my problem. So I thought, I'm a big boy let me downgrade to the previous version and see if it makes things better for me. I tried and the Orbi would just upgrade itself again as soon as it got Internet access. NO WAY TO DISABLE AUTO UPDATE. Come on Netgear let me at least try to see if it works...
How I actually solved my problem:
- I set IP reservations for both the Orbi Router and Satellite in my Asus AC68U. Orbi IP never changes no matter how many times I reboot them
- I went into the Asus Router (again with WiFi disabled) and enabled "Network Services Filter". Blacklisted the Orbi and Stallite from reaching out to any Internet IP on port 80 and 443 TCP. I figured that's how they retreived the firmware updates.
- Downgrade the Orbi Satellite to version 1.8.0.6
- Downgrade the Orbi Router to version 1.8.0.6
- Check that they cannot update themselves via the Firmware Update checker on Orbi Web management portal. Auto updates fail as expected.
- Run through my testing again by playing Overwatch and running Pingplotter in the background and guess what? zero issues.
- Also because I don't block ICMP the Orbi's still think they are online so they don't complain about anything now.
For me this firmware borked my Orbi units. Blocking the auto updates at my router/firewall and rolling back the firmware fixed all of my issues.
A less technically savvy person would have returned these or would've just gotten frustrated with them.
How I blocked updates:
- I set IP reservations for both the Orbi Router and Satellite in my Asus AC68U. Orbi IP never changes no matter how many times I reboot them
- I went into the Asus Router (again with WiFi disabled) and enabled "Network Services Filter". Blacklisted the Orbi and Stallite from reaching out to any Internet IP with UDP protocol. This simply blocks DNS translation and prevents Orbi checker from reaching update servers.
- Downgrade the Orbi Satellite to version 1.8.0.6
- Downgrade the Orbi Router to version 1.8.0.6
- Check that they cannot update themselves via the Firmware Update checker on Orbi Web management portal. Auto updates failed to check at all. Now status shows "No Internet" in the update section but Orbi main page still shows online.
- Run through my testing again by playing Overwatch and running Pingplotter in the background and guess what? zero issues.
- Also because I don't block ICMP the Orbi's still think they are online so they don't complain about anything now.
For me this firmware borked my Orbi units. Blocking the auto updates at my router/firewall and rolling back the firmware fixed all of my issues.
A less technically savvy person would have returned these or would've just gotten frustrated with them.
My Orbi's still updated themselves after a few days with my original guide. I have modified it so it blocks all UDP traffic from Orbi's to the Internet. This in turn blocked DNS so the Orbi can no longer translate IP addresses. This forces the update checker to fail completely. Now it cannot even detect if there is a new firmware.
fbraz50 wrote:How I blocked updates:
- I set IP reservations for both the Orbi Router and Satellite in my Asus AC68U. Orbi IP never changes no matter how many times I reboot them
- I went into the Asus Router (again with WiFi disabled) and enabled "Network Services Filter". Blacklisted the Orbi and Stallite from reaching out to any Internet IP with UDP protocol. This simply blocks DNS translation and prevents Orbi checker from reaching update servers.
- Downgrade the Orbi Satellite to version 1.8.0.6
- Downgrade the Orbi Router to version 1.8.0.6
- Check that they cannot update themselves via the Firmware Update checker on Orbi Web management portal. Auto updates failed to check at all. Now status shows "No Internet" in the update section but Orbi main page still shows online.
- Run through my testing again by playing Overwatch and running Pingplotter in the background and guess what? zero issues.
- Also because I don't block ICMP the Orbi's still think they are online so they don't complain about anything now.
For me this firmware borked my Orbi units. Blocking the auto updates at my router/firewall and rolling back the firmware fixed all of my issues.
A less technically savvy person would have returned these or would've just gotten frustrated with them.
My Orbi's still updated themselves after a few days with my original guide. I have modified it so it blocks all UDP traffic from Orbi's to the Internet. This in turn blocked DNS so the Orbi can no longer translate IP addresses. This forces the update checker to fail completely. Now it cannot even detect if there is a new firmware.
So... I'm going to have to revise this yet again. It seems that since I am blocking all UDP traffic out of the Orbi's now they are deciding they want to be offline. This happened a few days after my revised guide was posted. For the love of god Netgear, let me turn off auto updates. What this is causing is random packet loss. It looks like maybe the CPU or some resources on the router go under heavy load and it in turn causes dropped packets to anything going over the Orbi. I believe it is a load issue because it definately happens when I am on the web interface and when the devices try to check for updates.
So since I have switched back to my ubiquiti router I did some more digging in the logs and found the Orbi reaching out on "FTP" and "WEB - Other" classifications of traffic. I'm not totally sure what "web - other" is but will try to update when I find out. I just set my firewall rules to block outbound Web and FTP for the two Orbis and update checker fails with a no response tag now. They are behaving properly for now. I also tried to let them update again and the same issue as before was happening. Packet loss every 15-20 minutes.
I am on the brink of cutting my losses and trying something else, even if it is slower...
i see no real logic in turning aurto update of completly , it just need to be set so its tells you there is an update ready and what time it will be done
far to many ppl ignore firmware updates and then have unsecure routers , security updates should be mandatory
peteytesting wrote:i see no real logic in turning aurto update of completly , it just need to be set so its tells you there is an update ready and what time it will be done
far to many ppl ignore firmware updates and then have unsecure routers , security updates should be mandatory
That's not really the point. The update caused packet loss for me. It feels like lag when loading a web page or playing an online game. I get spurts long enough to drop me from matches in overwatch. It took me a while to figure out the root cause of the issue and as it turns out it is firmware 1.9.1.12. I tried rolling back and the Orbis would just update themselves again. There is no way around this, you cannot disable it. I am ok with running a version of the firmware 1 revision back since it was working. I am currenly trying to block these updates at the router level but it has caused some unexpected behavior.
I'm about to bite the bullet and just install Ubiquiti AP's in this house. I don't want to invest that kind of time and money since the property isn't mine but I may not have a choice if I want reliable connectivity.
I see there are number of full time IT people commenting on this thread. I too have 25 years of experience in IT, current MCSE, CCNP/CCDP, and VCP6. I have a bunch of other IT certifications too.
It is in long term IT people to make things work. We are use to spending hours and days making something work that nobody thought was possible. Not only does it make us look smart, but it makes us feel special; like we are smart.
I have spent dozens of hours on this Netgear Orbi, or as I call it, Netgear Ooopsi. I think we are once again at the point in the technology industry where releasing a product onto the market first is more important than making sure it actually works. Beta is now once again thrusted upon the early adopters. And for those who are less technology saavy, I expect that they have purchased this product to replace their 15 year old linksys WRT54G router, anything would be an improvement. But back to the facts.
I have never, ever spent so much time on a home product just to make it work properly. If it wasn't that I gave the product the benefit of the doubt that I didn't understand the new features, and tried so hard to understand what I was doing wrong, I would have returned it a week after I purchased it.
This thread is filled with so many things that either don't work or don't work well. I could start listing the things that do work, but realized the list would contain only those things that everyone would assume would work, such as..."I can log in" and "I can set a DHCP reservation" and "I can see both the router and satellite in the same pain of glass".I already know that word has gotten out in the IT tech community that both the Orbi and Google home products are well intended junk. They are not recommending these devices to the people that come and ask, "What should I get for my home, I have areas that are dead spots". Yet, the marketing engine still works in saying that this problem is solved with the Orbi.
You will find that there is a firesale going on with those who have purchased the Orbi and Google Home. You can find these systems used being sold for $50-$75 off original prices, and there are LOTS of them. They are selling them using the same marketing propaganda being used by Netgear. Having spent so much time on making this thing work I just can not believe that all of those "best product ever" reviews are not a part of some mega fake marketing scheme.
So with that, I am joining the firesale and bid this forum and Netgear "Au due". Good luck all.
Orbi is the best whole house router I have ever owned! Best product EVER!
