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Forum Discussion
Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'
Just downloaded the latest release V1.9.1.12 and noticed in the official release notes from Netgear it states as fix 'Continious Improvement in wireless connection stability'..Dosent spefically makre...
Tub,
If it is not clear to you yet, then please allow me to clarify (as a friend).
Netgear doesn't care.
My last request to Netgear was to provide me a Beta with Steering disabled. They said, "NO". Plain and simple. NO...
To be fair, and honest. I did switch my Router and Sat locations. Same location, only switched. This has improved things (somewhat), ONLY because the router is now located in the areas of my home I use most. Making the Sat usage very LOW. Making the Router the primary device (no need to steer). This ONLY works because I am running the beta 1.10.x. BUT, the newest GA release is of a newer version number than the beta. SO, my Orbi auto updates to the GA release which I can see it happening INSTANTLY when my WIFI goes to COMPLETE BAD. A quick check of the Orbi when my devices begin to drop like crazy and I see the GA release has applied, and then I roll it back to Beta 1.10.x and life is back to "SOME" normal.
I asked Netgear for a beta that allows auto updating to be disabled. They said , "NO".
SO here I am. I must run a beta, and prepare to roll back every few days or so when it updates to the HORRIBLE GA version.
Netgear doesn't care, and frankly I have given up.
Thankfully I have been VERY busy with work and personal life for the past 2 weeks, hence Orbi is low priority to me.
BUT, there is good news.
ASUS HIVE is about to launch. And given my previous experience with ASUS I am very eager to try it. It is the same setup as Orbi (dedicated backhaul). Up to 5 APs and it looks to be true MESH (unlike Orbi). And I have no doubt that ASUS Hive will give me (and most of us) the abilty to configure as we wish and need.
I am also looking at Ubiquiti which we already know is far better, but lacks the dedicated wireless backhual.
So, I am going to wait for the ASUS Hive launch and give it a try.
Maybe (MAYBE), Netgear will wake up and listen to thier customers. But given how long Orbi has been released and the many updates they have provided. I can see NO indication they are going to do the things we ask.
Good luck to you. Sorry you are in the same boat many of us are. But this forum, and Netgear's response (and lack of response) shows me that Orbi may be a lost cause.
Netgear's attitude seems to be, "If it works for the 70 percent, then forget the 30 percent whom it doesn't.
Goodnight to you and I hope your coming week goes well.
hi flash
just to correct you on a few points
the asus lyra ( formally known as hive ) its unsure if it uses a dedicated 5 gig backhaul and even if it does its only 867M so half the throughput of the orbi
you will also be waiting a while as the lyra is still in beta teating as far as i have heard and wont be available till q3
im also sorry but you purchased the netgear knowing it had band steering and auto update , why should netgear change to suit you
sure your not happy with the orbi and sure try the asus lyra but im pretty sure its going to have band steering and ap steering and auto update
understanding what you are buying is the key here , you cant expect everything to change to suit you and your specific requirements
i can also assure netear dev team is working hard on the drop outs and connection issues but they are issues , what you are after is a revamp of the design which i dont believe is warrented
pete
Pete,
Thank You.
I stand corrected. I only learned of ASUS Hive in the past week. You are correct. It has been renamed Lyra. Thank You.
You are also correct that the release date has been moved to Q3. Something "Maybe" Orbi should have done.
But, what you shared with me tonight, only made me smile (with sadness) that the websites/forums with those talking about Lyra, are also talking about Orbi and how it will compare. But one common topic I JUST READ was people who chose Orbi because they didn't want to wait for Lyra, is how many problems they are having with Orbi. Seems Orbi's problems are not limited to this Netgear thread.
However, I must disagree with you concerning your comments about "not accepting Orbi as it was designed". Contrary to your comments, I FULLY accept Orbi as it was designed. Steering and ALL! But, I think I am not alone, not just with Orbi, but with ANY product I purchase that it should WORK AS DESIGNED.
I am not asking Netgear for a re-design. Only that they:
1. Accept that Orbi has severe problems which MAY (I believe) be related to Steering.
2. Accept that Auto Updates may not CURRENTLY be the best option for Orbi given Netgear's poor track record for quality updates.
3. Allow users to disable some of these features that clearly are not compatible with all customers.
Imagine if your Car OEM forced your AC to be locked at 75 degrees. WHY? Because they feel that all thier customers should fit within their perceived opinion. And they based this decision on countless months of research. And, for the most part, they are correct. Most are happy. But then there are those who want 70, or 80 degrees. But they have no option. And to add salt to that pain, the AC is malfunctioning and sometimes doesn't work, and sometimes it feels colder or warmer than it should, etc, etc.
Are you saying that I should accept the vehicle as designed because I knew it was locked at 75 degrees, even though the AC does not properly maintain that temp?
Are you saying I am asking too much for the OEM to unlock the temp control and allow me to set a desired temp for my needs, at least until they FIX the AC problem?
If this is what you are saying, then my reply would be, "Please give me a refund". WHY? Because I did accept your 75 degree lock-in (even if I didn't agree with it), but it doesn't work as you promised (designed it to). And now you are telling me that must tolerate your malfunctioning AC for MONTHS until you fix your mistake(s), rather than unlocking the temp control and allowing me to find what works for me.
Hard work, or not, by the Dev team. Doesn't matter. I have 20 years of I.T. Background with engineering and architecture. If something I designed and implemented was causing massive Helpdesk calls. My bosses would be all over me. And if I told them, Deal with it, until I fix it...And this went on for MONTHS. Ummm...I don't think I would have my job much longer.
The better response would have been for me to say, "Yes, something isn't working right. Please allow me time to find and fix the problem. But, in the mean time, here is a workaround that will allow users to adjust settings to thier needs allow for less Helpdesk calls".
Most companies I have worked with would accept my answer. Not yours...im saying if you are unhappy by all means get a refund and go else where but expect the same and expect the same disapointment when say even the asus is the same
band steering and ap steering are a part of how mesh and DW systems work
auto updating also seems to be the new norm by most manufactures
no one really knows apart from the asus dev team what in the lyra and what it actually does and how it does it
i expect its bluetooth setup and has both band steering and ap steering and one ssid and onlt 867M
dont get me wrong i like asus gear and i have a lot of it , but dont build your hopes on something that cant be that different
pete
Pete,
If I could get a refund, I WOULD. Believe me!
But I can't.
With the fire sale of Orbi on Ebay, I would take a 40-50 percent hit verses what I paid.
If Netgear wants to give me a refund, so maybe I go away and they don’t need to hear from me anymore. SURE. Make me that offer and I will disappear from this forum. They can make me that offer “secretly”.
But, so long as no such offer is made, and I am unwilling to take a 50 percent loss with my investment. Sorry, I intend to hold Netgear accountable for a product that is not working as designed. Any OEM should expect to be held to a minimal standard. And Netgear is no exception.
I am very aware of steering and its requirements. But as any knowledgeable person will tell you (should you not know), it is NOT a requirement, but rather an “enhancement”. But it only “enhances” if it is implemented correctly. I have worked with a few commercial WIFI systems, and band and client steering is always a selectable feature. Not mandated.
Netgear should allow this feature to be disabled until they get it right.
As for auto-updating. Same response. Option to disable is needed for Orbi.
The fact Netgear refuses to make these changes communicates only one thing.
We don’t care.
Other OEMs, such as Ubiquiti. They got it wrong. Steering wasn’t working well. They knew it, admitted it, and pushed an update to disable it until fixed. And so many other OEMs do this all the time. WHY? Because they care.
You don’t tell your customers to “Deal with it”.
You do whatever it takes to keep the peace, show quality in service, support, product and overall experience. Most customers can be, and usually are, understanding to technology product problem. And they will forgive, so long as you show YOU CARE.
How many Netgear responses to this thread have we received? I mean, real, meaningful, responses. Where is the Dev team on this thread? Interacting with us. Working with us. Not just some low-level support rep emailing us links to beta code.
There are some REALLY smart people on this forum. If they worked with us, we would most likely have these problems resolve by now. But Netgear seems to be an antique waterfall organization. They really need to catchup and move to an agile approach.
Hi Flash008,
to to address your three points:
1. This is obviously accepted as they both have written in the forums that they are working on it, as well is providing multiple beta firmwares working with customers to try to deeply resolve all underlying issues (such a complex set of different behaviors usually have more than one root cause, as I'm sure you have experienced with your long track record of working with "IT")
2. This may already be addressed by not rolling out the current beta half baked, it seems they are trying to be very careful to get it right this time. Another good approach is staged rollouts which I hope they already employ as it is a best practice for any large scale rollout of software.
3. They do support that for things where it makes sense, like beam forming and similar settings. But as pointed out, steering is kind of a fundamental property for a wifi system with this kind of topology and even though it may well be the problem, I'd rather see the engineering team analyze the root causes properly and then make an assessment of what is needed to fix it fundamentally.
I also have have a long history of architecting and developing large scale software systems for over 25 years and the behavior I see here more closely correlates to that the issue was not properly escalated until fairly recently and that proper engineering resources only recently was assigned to work on and resolve this properly. Likely due to finishing of the new line of smaller devices. Thus, I assist in the troubleshooting actively and give them the benefit of the doubt for one-two more firmware releases as I think they now finally are working on it actively and seriously. (I have reasons to believe a significant improvement will happen with the next public update, at least for my environment)
If it is not resolved after that though, I'd look at options, but I am very hopeful now actually.