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Forum Discussion
UPNP not working on RBR20/RBS20 in AP mode
I currently use my RBR20/RBS20 with a HomeHub3000 router from Bell Aliant. The Orbi is in access point mode. The bell router does all routing. This system has worked fairly flawlessly except today whe...
Retired_Member wrote:
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
There's that darn IGMP Snooping:
https://us.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-108-8-port-unmanaged-gigabit-metal-desktop-switch
"Optimizes multicast data streams". WTF???
(Interesting that the official Data Sheet does not mention IGMP Snooping.)
This all sounds too good to be true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGMP_snooping
But, I cannot reconcile this enthusiasm with that paragraph in the article on UPnP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play where it says:
If IGMP snooping is enabled on a switch, or more commonly a wireless router/switch, it will interfere with UPnP/DLNA device discovery (SSDP) if incorrectly or incompletely configured (e.g. without an active querier or IGMP proxy), making UPnP appear unreliable.
Typical scenarios observed include a server or client (e.g. smart TV) appearing after power on, and then disappearing after a few minutes (often 30 by default configuration) due to IGMP group membership expiring.
IGMP snooping is really common. So far, I have not found many inexpensive switches that do not appear to have this feature, such as:
https://www.netgear.com/media/GS105v5_GS108v4_DS_tcm148-76758_tcm148-108734.pdf $40 on Amazon, or
Why does a '308' cost half what a '108' costs???
Before attempting to run an ethernet cable, I would probably drop $22 (+tax) on a Netgear GS308 and see 'anything changes'.
(I do not trust Netgear to have left IGMP Snooping out of the product and simply not mentioned anything about it. But I am a cynical old fart.)
There is always a (dim) chance that support that either Synology or Naim has an opinion on IGMP snooping. Since Naim relies entirely on UPnP, they might be the place to start.
Yes, there is a switch in the network (two actually). An example topology would be Fiber in to Homehub 3000 (Wifi disabled, router only). Port 1 as Orbi RBR20, Port 2 as line to 8 port ethernet switch (NAS connected to this), Port 3 to POE switch for IP cameras. None of these switches are managed switches.
Port 2 has the switch which then goes to the NAS and the Naim. Devices on Port 1 cannot see devices on port 2 over UPNP protocol.
If I put that 8 port switch on the ethernet out of the Orbi RBR20 (So Port 1 -> Orbi -> 8 Port Switch), devices on the Orbi can see the UPNP server (but the switch is still in the equation).
Either way, something is blocking UPNP when going across router ports. I'm just not sure how to address. To be clear - the above topology is unfavourable from equipment layout and orbi position but I tried it to eliminate the variable.
Any thoughts on how to eliminate whatever is blocking UPNP communication? I cannot tell the Naim to connect directly to the server - its UPNP only. The Bluesound Powernode is much easier as I can just SMB to the server. Naim requires UPNP on the device to control it, or smartphone to be able to remote control it. I desire both.
Retired_Member wrote:
If I put that 8 port switch on the ethernet out of the Orbi RBR20 (So Port 1 -> Orbi -> 8 Port Switch), devices on the Orbi can see the UPNP server (but the switch is still in the equation).
Physical topology can be a significant issue. Can you describe more about where these components are located? Specifically:
Where is the HomeHub3000 in relation to the 8-port switch, the NAS, and that Naim Unitiqute 2.
Where I am going is... If things work fine when the 8-port switch is connected to the Orbi RBR20, what happens if the OrbiRBR20 is connected to the 8-port switch? The Orbi does not require a separate port on the HomeHum3000 unless the 8-port switch is not physically close to the HomeHub.
First of all - thank you CrimpOn - I truly appreciate the help.
Physically, the HomeHub lives in a less than ideal spot. I have a 15' ethernet cord running to the Orbi in this room (main room of our house - hence having main location here). The switch is ~65' away in the basement/home office. It has a few smart home hubs connected to it, my work docking station, the NAS (to get the clicking hard drives out of the TV room), and my secondary audio setup with the streaming amps. I cannot physically locate the Orbi there without compromising the wifi coverage in the rest of the main floor.
The satellite is on the same floor, but around a series of walls and an L shape. It's in a room optimized for my wife's work location and a dead band in our wifi zone.
I'm not entirely sure what the HH3000 UPNP and DLNA settings do. With them on, I see the HomeHub as it's own UPNP server (it has a USB port you can attach a drive to). With them off I just see the AssetPNP server I have running on my Synology. Neither of these affect if the UPNP server is passed from one port of the Homehub to the other.
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
To get around it, I could try and run the switch connection to the back of the Orbi, but it's a bit of a faff. It might be worth it in the sake of good audio.
Retired_Member wrote:
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
There's that darn IGMP Snooping:
https://us.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-108-8-port-unmanaged-gigabit-metal-desktop-switch
"Optimizes multicast data streams". WTF???
(Interesting that the official Data Sheet does not mention IGMP Snooping.)
This all sounds too good to be true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGMP_snooping
But, I cannot reconcile this enthusiasm with that paragraph in the article on UPnP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play where it says:
If IGMP snooping is enabled on a switch, or more commonly a wireless router/switch, it will interfere with UPnP/DLNA device discovery (SSDP) if incorrectly or incompletely configured (e.g. without an active querier or IGMP proxy), making UPnP appear unreliable.
Typical scenarios observed include a server or client (e.g. smart TV) appearing after power on, and then disappearing after a few minutes (often 30 by default configuration) due to IGMP group membership expiring.
IGMP snooping is really common. So far, I have not found many inexpensive switches that do not appear to have this feature, such as:
https://www.netgear.com/media/GS105v5_GS108v4_DS_tcm148-76758_tcm148-108734.pdf $40 on Amazon, or
Why does a '308' cost half what a '108' costs???
Before attempting to run an ethernet cable, I would probably drop $22 (+tax) on a Netgear GS308 and see 'anything changes'.
(I do not trust Netgear to have left IGMP Snooping out of the product and simply not mentioned anything about it. But I am a cynical old fart.)
There is always a (dim) chance that support that either Synology or Naim has an opinion on IGMP snooping. Since Naim relies entirely on UPnP, they might be the place to start.
CrimpOn again, much thanks! I also missed the post about Wireshark - I should try that.
I do suspect you are entirely right. I'll see what I can find on a better switch for this and defeat the whole problem. I share your skepticism. I perused the Synology forums but hadn't tried Naim yet (I'm testing an amp out on loan - the test isn't going so well).
Honestly, for half the price and none of the pain (since SMB just works - and is visible across the whole network), the BlueSound Powernode is winning out. Plus, I really am not loving uPNP right now!
Thanks again for the tips and the deep investigation.