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Forum Discussion
UPNP not working on RBR20/RBS20 in AP mode
I currently use my RBR20/RBS20 with a HomeHub3000 router from Bell Aliant. The Orbi is in access point mode. The bell router does all routing. This system has worked fairly flawlessly except today whe...
Retired_Member wrote:
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
There's that darn IGMP Snooping:
https://us.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-108-8-port-unmanaged-gigabit-metal-desktop-switch
"Optimizes multicast data streams". WTF???
(Interesting that the official Data Sheet does not mention IGMP Snooping.)
This all sounds too good to be true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGMP_snooping
But, I cannot reconcile this enthusiasm with that paragraph in the article on UPnP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play where it says:
If IGMP snooping is enabled on a switch, or more commonly a wireless router/switch, it will interfere with UPnP/DLNA device discovery (SSDP) if incorrectly or incompletely configured (e.g. without an active querier or IGMP proxy), making UPnP appear unreliable.
Typical scenarios observed include a server or client (e.g. smart TV) appearing after power on, and then disappearing after a few minutes (often 30 by default configuration) due to IGMP group membership expiring.
IGMP snooping is really common. So far, I have not found many inexpensive switches that do not appear to have this feature, such as:
https://www.netgear.com/media/GS105v5_GS108v4_DS_tcm148-76758_tcm148-108734.pdf $40 on Amazon, or
Why does a '308' cost half what a '108' costs???
Before attempting to run an ethernet cable, I would probably drop $22 (+tax) on a Netgear GS308 and see 'anything changes'.
(I do not trust Netgear to have left IGMP Snooping out of the product and simply not mentioned anything about it. But I am a cynical old fart.)
There is always a (dim) chance that support that either Synology or Naim has an opinion on IGMP snooping. Since Naim relies entirely on UPnP, they might be the place to start.
First of all - thank you CrimpOn - I truly appreciate the help.
Physically, the HomeHub lives in a less than ideal spot. I have a 15' ethernet cord running to the Orbi in this room (main room of our house - hence having main location here). The switch is ~65' away in the basement/home office. It has a few smart home hubs connected to it, my work docking station, the NAS (to get the clicking hard drives out of the TV room), and my secondary audio setup with the streaming amps. I cannot physically locate the Orbi there without compromising the wifi coverage in the rest of the main floor.
The satellite is on the same floor, but around a series of walls and an L shape. It's in a room optimized for my wife's work location and a dead band in our wifi zone.
I'm not entirely sure what the HH3000 UPNP and DLNA settings do. With them on, I see the HomeHub as it's own UPNP server (it has a USB port you can attach a drive to). With them off I just see the AssetPNP server I have running on my Synology. Neither of these affect if the UPNP server is passed from one port of the Homehub to the other.
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
To get around it, I could try and run the switch connection to the back of the Orbi, but it's a bit of a faff. It might be worth it in the sake of good audio.
Retired_Member wrote:
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
There's that darn IGMP Snooping:
https://us.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-108-8-port-unmanaged-gigabit-metal-desktop-switch
"Optimizes multicast data streams". WTF???
(Interesting that the official Data Sheet does not mention IGMP Snooping.)
This all sounds too good to be true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGMP_snooping
But, I cannot reconcile this enthusiasm with that paragraph in the article on UPnP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play where it says:
If IGMP snooping is enabled on a switch, or more commonly a wireless router/switch, it will interfere with UPnP/DLNA device discovery (SSDP) if incorrectly or incompletely configured (e.g. without an active querier or IGMP proxy), making UPnP appear unreliable.
Typical scenarios observed include a server or client (e.g. smart TV) appearing after power on, and then disappearing after a few minutes (often 30 by default configuration) due to IGMP group membership expiring.
IGMP snooping is really common. So far, I have not found many inexpensive switches that do not appear to have this feature, such as:
https://www.netgear.com/media/GS105v5_GS108v4_DS_tcm148-76758_tcm148-108734.pdf $40 on Amazon, or
Why does a '308' cost half what a '108' costs???
Before attempting to run an ethernet cable, I would probably drop $22 (+tax) on a Netgear GS308 and see 'anything changes'.
(I do not trust Netgear to have left IGMP Snooping out of the product and simply not mentioned anything about it. But I am a cynical old fart.)
There is always a (dim) chance that support that either Synology or Naim has an opinion on IGMP snooping. Since Naim relies entirely on UPnP, they might be the place to start.
CrimpOn again, much thanks! I also missed the post about Wireshark - I should try that.
I do suspect you are entirely right. I'll see what I can find on a better switch for this and defeat the whole problem. I share your skepticism. I perused the Synology forums but hadn't tried Naim yet (I'm testing an amp out on loan - the test isn't going so well).
Honestly, for half the price and none of the pain (since SMB just works - and is visible across the whole network), the BlueSound Powernode is winning out. Plus, I really am not loving uPNP right now!
Thanks again for the tips and the deep investigation.
CrimpOn Just to close the loop on this - I snagged a GS108 to test the theory. Plugged it in, my phone instantly saw Minimim and Asset UPnP servers from my NAS (NAS hardwired on switch, router port 1; phone on Orbi wifi, router port 2). Flawless.
So I can confirm the GS108 does not have any IGMP snooping issues. The Naim picks up both servers flawlessly, the Naim app works flawlessly, etc. Now the harder decision - older Naim streamer vs. Powernode. 🙂
Thank you so much for the help.
I also have a D-Link DGS-108, it's a un-managed switch. No IGMP protocols here. Same goes for the NG GS108/105s I have.
CrimpOn wrote:
Retired_Member wrote:
The switch model is a D-link DGS108.
There's that darn IGMP Snooping:
https://us.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-108-8-port-unmanaged-gigabit-metal-desktop-switch
"Optimizes multicast data streams". WTF???
(Interesting that the official Data Sheet does not mention IGMP Snooping.)
This all sounds too good to be true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGMP_snooping
But, I cannot reconcile this enthusiasm with that paragraph in the article on UPnP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play where it says:
If IGMP snooping is enabled on a switch, or more commonly a wireless router/switch, it will interfere with UPnP/DLNA device discovery (SSDP) if incorrectly or incompletely configured (e.g. without an active querier or IGMP proxy), making UPnP appear unreliable.
Typical scenarios observed include a server or client (e.g. smart TV) appearing after power on, and then disappearing after a few minutes (often 30 by default configuration) due to IGMP group membership expiring.
IGMP snooping is really common. So far, I have not found many inexpensive switches that do not appear to have this feature, such as:
https://www.netgear.com/media/GS105v5_GS108v4_DS_tcm148-76758_tcm148-108734.pdf $40 on Amazon, or
Why does a '308' cost half what a '108' costs???
Before attempting to run an ethernet cable, I would probably drop $22 (+tax) on a Netgear GS308 and see 'anything changes'.
(I do not trust Netgear to have left IGMP Snooping out of the product and simply not mentioned anything about it. But I am a cynical old fart.)
There is always a (dim) chance that support that either Synology or Naim has an opinion on IGMP snooping. Since Naim relies entirely on UPnP, they might be the place to start.
FURRYe38 I want to agree with you in theory, but the problem is once the D-link was removed from the chain and the Netgear switch inserted all problems went away. So the D-link DGS108 was doing something. Maybe it's a Netgear to Netgear thing, I don't know. But for me the DGS108 prevented UPnP working reliably. Even when it was working on the DGS108, it was slow and buggy from wired connections, and it wouldn't pickup all my UPnP servers.
With the GS108 in the chain, it sees everything - reliably and fast.
It's possible that particular switch you have is faulty. Glad the NG switch resolved it.
Be sure to save off a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed.
https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System
Enjoy. 📡
