XB7 with Orbi RBR50 and RBS50 in Access Point Mode Issue

Wow!  Thanks Furry for all of your efforts and time.  :)

Yes, I would assume that if this was an issue with all modems and modem/router combos connected to the Internet port of the Orbi in AP mode, Netgear would have many more support calls and posts in this forum.

I wonder what it is with the XB7 that the Orbi in AP mode doesn't like?  I know there are alot of these Orbis out there, but the XB7s are relativley new since they just came out within the last year or so.

I can duplicate this with ease.

Blanca_O  what would you suggest I do in this case?

I presume so and may not a lot of users using there Orbis in AP most rather router mode. 

Something to collect the debug logs from the RBR AND RBS when you reproduce this and send them to NG for review. 

Thanks (again) Furry.

Would this simply be a matter of logging into the debug.htm page on the RBR and selecting "Start Debug Log Capture when boot up"? 

Would I need to do the same on the RBS or just the RBR?

I'm assuming I would then reboot the RBR and the RBS, and then try to connect the RBR Internet port to the XB7 followed by connecting the RBS in wired backhaul.  I would then need to figure out a way to login to the debug page again to "SAVE DEBUG LOG" after I lose my network connection, right?

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sclawrenc wrote:

Thanks (again) Furry.

 

Would this simply be a matter of logging into the debug.htm page on the RBR and selecting "Start Debug Log Capture when boot up"? YES.

 

Would I need to do the same on the RBS or just the RBR? BOTH.

 

I'm assuming I would then reboot the RBR and the RBS, and then try to connect the RBR Internet port to the XB7 followed by connecting the RBS in wired backhaul.  I would then need to figure out a way to login to the debug page again to "SAVE DEBUG LOG" after I lose my network connection, right? I believe once you see the disconnect happen, just remove the ethernet connect from the RBS and give it a minute and see if you have connection to the RBRs debug page. If you can have a wired PC connected to the back of the RBS as well and have it's debug page loaded there as well. 

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Today (based on a suggestion from someone on SNB forums), I hooked up the XB7 to the left most port on the Orbi satellite, and I used the Internet port on the Orbi router. I then rebooted the Orbi router, and left the Orbi satellite on and connected to the XB7 while the Orbi router rebooted. After a minute or two, the Orbi router found the Orbi satellite in wired mode, and my network never dropped or went down. The purple light is now off on the Orbi router too. My network has been up for about 4 hours without issue. At that point, I didn't try any more rebooting to see if it stuck since I just wanted to go with what was working at the moment.  Later, I will reboot the Orbis and see if it continues to work.

I wouldn't think using the left most port on the Orbi satellite would make a difference since I would think all of those ports are identical as far as passing network traffic between and through them.

I just wanted to let you know the current status and thanks again for your help.  :)

Interesting. Seems that with at least this ISP Modem, there seems to be something going on with this configuration as that normally would not work.

Glad you got it working though.

Enjoy.

Yes, I'm not sure why this is working now.  I don't think it makes a difference which port you use on the satellite when using wired backhaul.  It might have been the shutting down the Orbi router, connecting the Orbi Internet port to the XB7, and then turning the Orbi router back on.  This was all done with the Orbi satellite still on and connected to hard wired other than the temporarily disconnect to move the cable connecting to the XB7 to the left most port.  Still doesn't make a lot of sense though.

Thanks again, and I will post later with results either way.

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sclawrenc wrote:

Today (based on a suggestion from someone on SNB forums), I hooked up the XB7 to the left most port on the Orbi satellite, and I used the Internet port on the Orbi router. I then rebooted the Orbi router, and left the Orbi satellite on and connected to the XB7 while the Orbi router rebooted. After a minute or two, the Orbi router found the Orbi satellite in wired mode, and my network never dropped or went down. The purple light is now off on the Orbi router too. My network has been up for about 4 hours without issue. At that point, I didn't try any more rebooting to see if it stuck since I just wanted to go with what was working at the moment.  Later, I will reboot the Orbis and see if it continues to work.

I wouldn't think using the left most port on the Orbi satellite would make a difference since I would think all of those ports are identical as far as passing network traffic between and through them.

 

I just wanted to let you know the current status and thanks again for your help.  :)

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So, the ORBI router is connected to the Internet (thru XB7) through the satellite?

<mind blown>

Is this safe? is the NAT function (done by the router) preserved in this way?

How are devices connected to the satellite getting their packets? directly from the XB7?

Run ShieldsUp from grc.com to make sure your ports are blocked from the WAN side.

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

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alokeprasad wrote:

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So, the ORBI router is connected to the Internet (thru XB7) through the satellite?

<mind blown>

Is this safe? is the NAT function (done by the router) preserved in this way?

How are devices connected to the satellite getting their packets? directly from the XB7?

 

Run ShieldsUp from grc.com to make sure your ports are blocked from the WAN side.

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

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Thanks for your reply, aloke.

The XB7 has a 4 LAN port Ethernet switch built in.  Both the Orbi router and satellite are connected to the XB7's built in Ethernet LAN switch which is behind the XB7's firewall.  This is just like any router that has additional LAN ports.  Keep in mind, the XB7 is in router mode (not bridged), and the Orbis are in AP mode.  

I did run ShieldsUp for both common ports and the UPnp tests, and both passed fine.

OK, sounds good. :smileywink:

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sclawrenc wrote:

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alokeprasad wrote:

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So, the ORBI router is connected to the Internet (thru XB7) through the satellite?

<mind blown>

Is this safe? is the NAT function (done by the router) preserved in this way?

How are devices connected to the satellite getting their packets? directly from the XB7?

 

Run ShieldsUp from grc.com to make sure your ports are blocked from the WAN side.

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

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Thanks for your reply, aloke.

 

The XB7 has a 4 LAN port Ethernet switch built in.  Both the Orbi router and satellite are connected to the XB7's built in Ethernet LAN switch which is behind the XB7's firewall.  This is just like any router that has additional LAN ports.  Keep in mind, the XB7 is in router mode (not bridged), and the Orbis are in AP mode.  

 

I did run ShieldsUp for both common ports and the UPnp tests, and both passed fine.

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I undertand this now.

You are lucky to be using the XB7 as the router.  Shields-up is failing on my system (connected normally to a cable modem). Port 22 open and many ports closed buy not stealthed.

I posted that in a separate thread.

Just to provide an update to the Orbi RBK50 in AP Mode using wired backhaul, there is definitely an issue or bug that Netgear needs to look into.  I have just setup a pfSense HP 730t with an Intel quad port NIC, and I wanted to use the Orbis in AP mode, but ran into the same issue with the wired backhaul satellite killing my network when powering it on.  My new setup is listed below.  All GS108T v2 switches are set to default using VLAN 1, PVID 1 and untagged on all ports.  pfSense has no VLANs configured and is in the out-of-the-box configuration allowing internet access on lan.  I am only using pfSense with one wan and one lan. 

pfSense -> GS108T v2 (call it Switch A)

Switch A -> GS108T v2 (call it Switch B)

Switch A -> GS108T v2 (call it Switch C)

Switch A -> Orbi RBR50 (2.7.2.102)

Switch B -> Orbi RBS50 (2.7.2.102) when I connect the RBS50, my wired network goes crazy, and I'm no longer online.

I have multiple devices connected to Switch B and C such as Xbox, PS4, tvs, etc, but no other switches.  Everything seems to be working until the RBS tries to connect.

I've seen many other threads now mentioning this same type of behavior so I think the way the RBS and the RBR are trying to communicate with each other is causing the issue.

Again, I think someone in support should know about this, but I'm not sure how to get them.

One issue is that your using managed switches. ALL IGMP protocols and if possible any GREEN Ethernet features should be disabled on these switches. 

2nd issue is that with v102, there will be a short ARP storm seen when you connect the RBR to the RBR via Ethernet thru a switch, should only last a couple of minutes? Est. Once this time frame has passed, it will return to normal the ARP storm will stop. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR50-Router-Firmware-Version-V2-7-2-102/m-p/2028357/highlight/true#M109645

Mines all Ethernet connected via switches however I don't use manages switches. 

NG GS-105/108v4, D-Link DGS-105/108 and HP ProCurve 1400/1800 series switches work for Orbi systems.

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sclawrenc wrote:

Just to provide an update to the Orbi RBK50 in AP Mode using wired backhaul, there is definitely an issue or bug that Netgear needs to look into.  I have just setup a pfSense HP 730t with an Intel quad port NIC, and I wanted to use the Orbis in AP mode, but ran into the same issue with the wired backhaul satellite killing my network when powering it on.  My new setup is listed below.  All GS108T v2 switches are set to default using VLAN 1, PVID 1 and untagged on all ports.  pfSense has no VLANs configured and is in the out-of-the-box configuration allowing internet access on lan.  I am only using pfSense with one wan and one lan. 

 

pfSense -> GS108T v2 (call it Switch A)

Switch A -> GS108T v2 (call it Switch B)

Switch A -> GS108T v2 (call it Switch C)

Switch A -> Orbi RBR50 (2.7.2.102)

Switch B -> Orbi RBS50 (2.7.2.102) when I connect the RBS50, my wired network goes crazy, and I'm no longer online.

 

I have multiple devices connected to Switch B and C such as Xbox, PS4, tvs, etc, but no other switches.  Everything seems to be working until the RBS tries to connect.

 

I've seen many other threads now mentioning this same type of behavior so I think the way the RBS and the RBR are trying to communicate with each other is causing the issue.

 

Again, I think someone in support should know about this, but I'm not sure how to get them.

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Thanks eFurry.

I found some help in some other Netgear posts too which has helped me understand more about what's going on with the Orbis bringing down my network with the unmanaged XB7 setup and with my recent pfSense build with some managed switches basically in unmanaged mode. 

Please the link below where I discovered more about how the Orbis use STP to communicate and prevent loops by reading the posts by Flash008.  I did this and now they are working.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBK53-ethernet-backhaul-issue/td-p/1505888

And see where schumaku bascially said the same thing, but in less detail. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Smart-Plus-and-Smart-Pro-Managed/3-GS108T-v2-Switches-Connecting-to-pfSense-Lan/m-p/2047100/emcs_t/S2h8ZW1haWx8dG9waWNfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ufEtLRlowVVRZTDkwS0g4fDIwNDcxMDB8U1VCU0NSSVBUSU9OU3xoSw#M18066

Again, thanks.  I'm enjoying tinkering with all of my new network equipment.  :)

So were you able to get it working? 

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FURRYe38 wrote:

So were you able to get it working? 

 

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Yes, by follwing the instructions provided by Flash008 in the other post.

It seems the STP that the RBK50s use was the culprit.  That was what was bringing my network down with the XB7 and unmanged switches as well as with the pfSense with managed switches.  I think this needs to be dealt with.  I tagged the moderator before on this more than once, but I never received any feedback.  That is unfortunate. 

Thanks for your help!

I guess. Not sure if NG will fully address this as in most cases the use of good working non managed swtiches in place seem to resolve this for most of us. I've tried many different configurations and 3 branded switches and all seem to work for Orbi in AP mode when configured correctly and connected right. IGMP protocols on managed switchs were one cause that one user found a while back. Others said that green ethernet features on even non managed switches can be a cause as well. I have NGs non manages switchs with green ethernet and these seen to not present a problem for Orbi. So maybe NG did something with that as I'm not seeing any problems with green ethernet switches from NG currently. 

One thing to keep in mind as well, it's best to use 1 branded line of switches rather then a mixed brand with Orbi. I have tested 3 different brands and models and all work well with Orbi in AP or router mode. My one manage switch works as I keep IGMP and Green Ethernet features disabled on it.