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Nighthawk 5G Mobile Hotspot – World’s First Standards-Based Millimeter Wave Mobile 5G Device
The World’s First Millimeter Wave 5G Connection is here, thanks to AT&T! We’ve partnered up to deliver the Nighthawk 5G Mobile Hotspot, the first standards-based mobile 5G network device in th...
$499? Are they serious? How about an MR1100 Gen3 that actually does LTE-A with 3x and 4x CA, 4x4 MIMO, and 256 QAM? Like one that is as fast as a Samsung Galaxy S9 or an iPhone XS/Max with a big battery, ethernet, and dual 5GHz radios ?!?!
Do you recall the saying, "B.S., M.S., PhD.?"
It goes something like, "Bull Soup, More Soup, Piled Higher and Deeper." of course you cannot pile soup.
AT&T and T-Mobile will both hit rural areas with 5G starting in late 2019. The key is low-band, frequency-divided (FDD) spectrum, which current 5G chipsets don't support. But that will be sorted out later this year. On that spectrum, you should expect about a 35 percent increase in speeds and capacity from 4G, but a major drop in latency. Those networks may not have the capacity for home internet, but they'll change rural life in different ways.
Hopefully the "spring 2019" nighthawk will support "low-band" 5G. With the high cost of the nighthawk customers can not afford to buy a "mmWave only" version in 2019 before it immediately goes obsolete, then rebuy a 2020 version with mmWave + "low-band". As we have already discovered with nighthawk 4G LTE, slipping in new bands to subsequent nighthawk revisions is awful for customers.
Up to 35 percent speed increase over typical LTE speeds may be hard for people to notice it. But at least it is more believeable from a cell tower backhaul perspective. A "bit faster" than 4G LTE is a far cry from the 5G hype machine with Gbit+ data pipes for everyone.
AT&T confirmed that it will soon begin changing the “LTE” indicator on some of its current Android phones to “5G E” in markets where the company now offers 4x4 MIMO, 256 QAM and other advanced LTE network technologies. AT&T’s “5G E” label will sit next to its “5G+” label, which the operator has applied to its mobile 5G service launching today in 12 cities. AT&T’s “5G+” label applies to transmissions in the operator’s millimeter-wave spectrum. (AT&T’s initial mobile 5G launch will transmit signals in its 39 GHz licensed spectrum band across 100 MHz of spectrum and 2x2 MIMO antennas.)
Great, as if faux(4)-G wasn't bad enough. Now we'll have fake 5G, too. Initially, I thought the 5GE moniker was going to be for sub-6GHz 5G service to distinguish it from mmWave which was 5G+ But I guess they couldn't help themselves.
5G for ALL! Hell, if I already have "5G" why should I upgrade?
I have to admit, the LTE-A I've been getting in the Philly suburbs has been very nice on my iPhone XS Max -- 100-160Mbit easy, sometimes as high as 240Mbit. Of course upload data rates are still very poor. And my iPhone runs laps around my MR1100.
Funny thing is, in NJ where I live, very, very few towers have been upgraded. Speeds are much slower typically only ~15-50Mbit. You'll see the occasionaly tower that does ~100Mbit, but they are few and far between. Even when driving in heavily trafficed areas like the NJTPK.
Happy holidays everyone. Now cough up $499 and pay $70/mo for 15GB.
So what happens when I put my unlimited plus plan SIM in a new M5 Nighthawk? Will I get unlimited 5 GeeWiz? Good thing I signed up for two of them before AT&T stopped offering them.
So what happens when I put my unlimited plus plan SIM in a new M5 Nighthawk?
My guess is it will work, but only for speeds your plan is qualified for (ie LTE/5G Evolution). Netgear is not going to stock older hotspots forever. As customers break or lose their older hotspots they will need replacements. mmWave and "low-band" 5G are just additional bands Netgear is adding to their hotspot offering. All the normal LTE bands will be there. As for the number of internal/external antennas we'll have to wait and see when the 5G+ nighthawk actually ships spring 2019.
I have to admit, the LTE-A I've been getting in the Philly suburbs has been very nice on my iPhone XS Max -- 100-160Mbit easy, sometimes as high as 240Mbit. Of course upload data rates are still very poor. And my iPhone runs laps around my MR1100.
If both the iphone and MR1100 are running on AT&T, a youtube with the devices running side-by-side would be very helpful. If you can demonstrate the MR1100 LTE-A is not working, existing MR1100 customers can pursue a replacement or upgrade to the 5G+ model with AT&T.
A benefit of netgear displaying the "5G E" indicator is to give customers insight to whether the tower they are connected to is LTE or "5G E". If netgear is not detecting "5G E" enabled towers correctly then the LTE-A features/functions will not be used.
https://about.att.com/newsroom/2018/5g_evolution_market_update.html
this web page states: “As a reminder, 5G Evolution markets are locations where we’ve deployed technologies that enable peak theoretical wireless speeds for capable devices of at least 400 megabits per second. And, we plan to offer 5G Evolution in over 400 markets by the end of the year. In the first half of 2019 we plan to offer nationwide coverage, making 5G Evolution available to over 200 million people.”
"5G E" is way ahead of "5G+" in terms of rollout ("5G E" cell towers and "5G E" devices). During 2017 and 2018 my "5G E" nighthawk with a single 700MHz external antenna has:
1) *rare* peak 50Mbit download
2) *most of the time* 20's to 30's Mbit download
3) *most of the time* 6 to 17 Mbit upload
I consider these speeds to be normal "LTE" scores. I do not believe "5G E" is on my cell tower yet but there is no way to determine that by looking at the Nighthawk.
https://about.att.com/newsroom/2018/5g_evolution_market_update.html
The other technology we’re using to lay the mobile 5G foundation is LTE-LAA. With LTE-LAA, the network technologies have a peak theoretical wireless speed for capable devices of 1 gigabit per second. LTE-LAA is now live in parts of 20 cities with plans to reach at least 24 cities this year.
Even AT&T has a hard time describing "5G Evolution". AT&T states "5G Evolution" gets you "theoritical" 400Mbps, while LAA gets you an additional "theoritical" 600Mbps for a grand total of a "theoritical" 1000Mbps. In other words more than half of AT&T's hype machine 1Gbit speed is LAA. AT&T comes right out and says LAA is only "in parts of 20 cities". "In parts of" likely means certain streets or blocks just like 5G+. The way AT&T describes it here it sounds like LAA is NOT part of the "5G Evolution" set of technologies. Forget the names they call it, it sounds like the 400Mbps part will be nationwide by next summer which is pretty awesome. And since AT&T does not say what LAA is going to do in 2019, there is probably not much to talk about. "Theoritical" 400Mbps, let's assume half that speed in the real world with trees, buildings, weather, etc, giving us 200Mbps nationwide. 5G+ will not work for me anytime soon in my rural location, so I'm looking forward to 200Mbps on the "5G E" nighthawk.
"the LTE-A I've been getting in the Philly suburbs has been very nice on my iPhone XS Max -- 100-160Mbit easy, sometimes as high as 240Mbit."
This result jives with the 400Mbit "5G E" (without LLA) service estimate of 200Mbit peak score in the real world. 200-240 Mbit range I would say that iPhone is getting the correct and expected score that AT&T intended to deliver.
The question is what does the nighthawk 5G E get at the same location and time? My peak score on my 5G E Nighthawk is 50Mbit after running hundreds of tests over the last 12 months. There is no way I am reaching your "100-160Mbit easy" scores. It does not matter if I use WiFi or wired Gigabit ethernet, I can not get above 50Mbit. My guess is "5G E" is NOT turned on in my rural location yet.
nhantenna wrote:
The question is what does the nighthawk 5G E get at the same location and time? My peak score on my 5G E Nighthawk is 50Mbit after running hundreds of tests over the last 12 months. There is no way I am reaching your "100-160Mbit easy" scores.
The Netgear 5G router announced end of October 2018, in the market since about mid December 2018 - unless you are an Alpha or Beta tester (and then you would be under an NDA) this is a blunt lie.
Note that he said, "Nighthawk 5G E". Remember, that's AT&T's fake 5G. Also know as LTE-A to the rest of the world. I expect he is referring to his MR1100.
I'm not sure what an AT&T RAN is. Is this like a tier 3 or 4 network support engineer? It's hard enough to get to Tier 2.
My iPhone XS Max, when given a strong RF signal on an upgraded and lightly loaded tower routinely gets 150-220Mbit DL. In contract on the MR1100 on the same tower(s) I max out at ~90-110Mbit. I have verified that CA appears to be working on the MR1100. I routinely see at least two secondary carriers when benchmarking or streaking.
I suspect there is something amiss with QAM, MIMO, provisioning or both. But, I also cannot rule out poor 5GHz 802.11ac wireless. I haven't had time to try and benchmark the MR1100 on these towers using USB tethering.
But I have tried both 40MHz and 80MHz 802.11ac. Which give PHYS links of ~400Mbit and 866Mbit respectively to my iPhone as both devices are 2x2. 2.4GHz is off. I actually find the 40Mhz works a bit better as it has slightly better range and less interference.
A 400Mbit PHYS link should support ~40-60% of link rate in terms of real throughput. So I should have at least 200Mbit of real headroom -- but only see ~60-90Mbit routinely. 110Mbit was the fastest I've ever seen. I've seen one other post in which one person got 147Mbit DL on their MR1100, once.
Like I said, I see 150+ Mbit on my XSM every day. There are at least 10 towers I pass during my commute to work which give these speeds. That said, there are still many, many towers that max out at 30-50Mbit.
I do wish upload speeds were better. Both the MR1100 and XSM are terrible (5-15Mbit). Funny, my ZTE/AT&T Velocity 2 has great upload speeds (20-40Mbit) and it's download speeds are just shy of the MR1100.
"I'm not sure what an AT&T RAN is."
Radio Access Network Engineer. Someone who can see exactly what is happening on the AT&T side. You will likely have to provide your SIM card type info on the Nighthawk and iPhone. Run the speedtests through both devices. AT&T RAN will visually be able to see your connection details to explain what is happening. If you are connected to AT&T's network the RAN can see everything about that connection.
I have the 5GE Nighthawk (5G Evolution). I do NOT have a 5G+ Nighthawk (mmWave).
Sorry, I don't have a screen shot on me. But if you follow these steps:
1) Connect MR1100 to PC via USB
2) Telnet to 192.168.1.1 5510 (note telnet to the IP of your MR1100, at port 5510)
3) Run this command in the Telnet session AT!GSTATUS?
4) Observer which bands you are connected to.
5) Initiate a speedtest on your laptop (I like Fast.net or the SpeedTest App (not url) from the Window 10 App store)
6) Run this command in the Telnet session AT!GSTATUS? again. You'll see there are now additional bands lists to support the active data session from the speed test. Assuming CA is available in your area.
