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AX4200 (rbs750) backhaul only works at 1200Mbps
Just got my AX4200 mesh to replace my buggy Google mesh system. Very impressive!!! All the connections are stable and lighting fast!! However, just a naive question. Why my backhaul only works at 120...
Today I decided to run a test of the backhaul between an RBR750 and RBS750. I set them up 10 feet apart and the backhaul connection shows 1201M. However wth that said, it is a known fact that the GUI and app report false results.
Mstrbig wrote:Today I decided to run a test of the backhaul between an RBR750 and RBS750. I set them up 10 feet apart and the backhaul connection shows 1201M.
Reads like they crippled both the fronthaul (by the lower cost specs for the special sales channels) and the backhaul from 4x4 to 2x2 (both operating at 80 MHz bandwith) - probably on the driver level - by error.
schumaku wrote:
Mstrbig wrote:Today I decided to run a test of the backhaul between an RBR750 and RBS750. I set them up 10 feet apart and the backhaul connection shows 1201M.
Reads like they crippled both the fronthaul (by the lower cost specs for the special sales channels) and the backhaul from 4x4 to 2x2 (both operating at 80 MHz bandwith) - probably on the driver level - by error.
I was also thinking specifications typo, since the specs from the 750 should not be the same as the 850, or no one would purchase the 850.
That's why I went with the 750, because the specs were close. I think the 2400Mbps(5GHz) is the typo.
750 specs Tri-band Wi-Fi 6 AX4000: 2400Mbps (5GHz) + 1200Mbps (5GHz)+ 600Mbps (2.4GHz)
850 specs Tri-band 4x4 Wi-Fi 6 AX6000: 2400Mbps (5GHz) + 2400Mbps (5GHz)+ 1200Mbps (2.4GHz)
It's possible, however, I would think and feel that NG may want to keep the same backhaul connection rates between the models. I guess depending upon what marketing and engineering wanted to do. The HW is the same, sans the chip set model # is just one number less between the 2 models. I've seen this before with NGs XR gaming series routers 450 and 500. There both same hareware wise, sans the only difference is the 2.4Ghz connection rates. 600 vs 800 on 2.4Ghz. Thus only a $100 difference for 200Mpbs. :smileysurprised:
Hopefully NG will let us know what the issue is if it's a typo or otherwise. IF the spec sheets are wrong then would be kind of mis-leading. Hope not. :smileyembarrassed:
Mstrbig wrote:
schumaku wrote:
Mstrbig wrote:Today I decided to run a test of the backhaul between an RBR750 and RBS750. I set them up 10 feet apart and the backhaul connection shows 1201M.
Reads like they crippled both the fronthaul (by the lower cost specs for the special sales channels) and the backhaul from 4x4 to 2x2 (both operating at 80 MHz bandwith) - probably on the driver level - by error.
I was also thinking specifications typo, since the specs from the 750 should not be the same as the 850, or no one would purchase the 850.
That's why I went with the 750, because the specs were close. I think the 2400Mbps(5GHz) is the typo.
750 specs Tri-band Wi-Fi 6 AX4000: 2400Mbps (5GHz) + 1200Mbps (5GHz)+ 600Mbps (2.4GHz)
850 specs Tri-band 4x4 Wi-Fi 6 AX6000: 2400Mbps (5GHz) + 2400Mbps (5GHz)+ 1200Mbps (2.4GHz)
I don't think it's a typo, the backhaul has historically been faster than the client side band.
If you look at the RBK753 Specs vs the RBK53 Specs, RBK753 is basically the same just with WiFi 6 Speeds
AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi : (1,733+866+400Mbps)
AX4200 Tri-Band WiFi : 2.4GHz (600Mbps) + 5GHz (1200Mbps) for WiFi devices to connect to the Internet. 5GHz (2400Mbps) dedicated WiFi link for faster data connections between Orbi Router and Orbi SatelliteI heard back from Netgear Support regarding this topic. I tried to post their verbatum explanation 3 times now. But it appears a Moderator keeps removing the post. So this is my interpretation:
The AX4200 is a combined throughput when you have 1 router 600Mbps 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps. The 2400Mbps backhaul is derived from the 2 combined satellites connecting to the router giving 1200Mbps+1200Mbps connection.
Mstrbig wrote:I heard back from Netgear Support regarding this topic. I tried to post their verbatum explanation 3 times now. But it appears a Moderator keeps removing the post. So this is my interpretation:
The AX4200 is a combined throughput when you have 1 router 600Mbps 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps. The 2400Mbps backhaul is derived from the 2 combined satellites connecting to the router giving 1200Mbps+1200Mbps connection.
With all due respect to whoever told you that, that is completely and utterly false.
System speed has never been based around the number of satellites, the system itself is tri-band and the "speed" is adding the band speeds together.
2.4 GHz Fronthaul - 600Mbps
5 GHz Fronthaul - 1200Mbps
5 GHz Backhaul - 2400Mbps
That's why you'll see every single Orbi RBK75X System labeled as AX4200, same with RBK85X being AX6000 with variants of each ranging between 2-4 satellites.There's only a couple possibilities here, either it is a bug (firmware or Router GUI) or the system's specs are incorrect.
Mstrbig wrote:The AX4200 is a combined throughput when you have 1 router 600Mbps 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps. The 2400Mbps backhaul is derived from the 2 combined satellites connecting to the router giving 1200Mbps+1200Mbps connection.
Hmmmm, interesting interpretation - the specs for the router and the satellite show something completely different - reads to me some Netgear support entity with no much tech insight has tried to explain that the wireless backhaul is sufficient for two satellites.
Borrowed from the Router + 1 Satellite Tech Specs (https://www.netgear.com/home/wifi/mesh/rbk752 -> Specs -> Technical Specs :- Router: AX4200 Tri-Band WiFi : 2.4GHz (600Mbps†) + 5GHz (1200Mbps†) for WiFi devices to connect to the Internet. 5GHz (2400Mbps†) dedicated WiFi link for faster data connections between Orbi Router and Orbi Satellite
- Satellite: AX4200 Tri-Band WiFi : 2.4GHz (600Mbps†) + 5GHz (1200Mbps†) for WiFi devices to connect to the Internet. 5GHz (2400Mbps†) dedicated WiFi link for faster data connections between Orbi Router and Orbi Satellite
So this isn't an AX4200 kit - much more a AX3000 in this case?
But hey, already the "... for WiFi devices to connect to the Internet." is an odd marketing explanation for the max PHY link speed of the fronthaul. Iterating this a litle bit more, 600+1200 would be more than what the backhaul can handle if the interpretation from above should be true.
----
Now some fun: This screenshot does show the confusion and errors which obviously exist in Netgear and on the (new?) Web site - RBK853 -> Specs -> Tech Data -> Satellite ... LOMA ... who can spot all errors?
Does Netgear proof-read specs before publishing? The interesting part - the same RBS850 specas are falsely duplicated insted of re-used.
campolo313 wrote:There's only a couple possibilities here, either it is a bug (firmware or Router GUI) or the system's specs are incorrect.
I said it was a spec typo all along, that the RBK753 system is not capable of a 5Ghz 2400Mbps backhaul, just as the RBK853 system is not capable of a 2.4Ghz 2400Mbps speed and/or backhaul.
schumaku wrote:Hmmmm, interesting interpretation - the specs for the router and the satellite show something completely different - reads to me some Netgear support entity with no much tech insight has tried to explain that the wireless backhaul is sufficient for two satellites.
Now some fun: This screenshot does show the confusion and errors which obviously exist in Netgear and on the (new?) Web site - RBK853 -> Specs -> Tech Data -> Satellite ... LOMA ... who can spot all errors?
Does Netgear proof-read specs before publishing? The interesting part - the same RBS850 specas are falsely duplicated insted of re-used.
Yes the 2.4Ghz 2400Mbps seems a little suspicious. I've been in this game since DOS1.0. I've seen typos, wiring and dipswitch diagrams reversed where you have to look at the book upside down, to get the proper setting and more. Nothing suprises me. But I still don't think it's a bug in the firmware or hardware. The only way to prove it is, is for Netgear to release the firmware that will unlock the speed throttle.
I prefer to look at the spec PDF sheets. Though I have asked about this before from NG, We see some reporting of the rates that are a bit inconsistant between some of the specs in the PDF files:
Orbi AX4200 Router and AX4200 Satellite (600 + 1200 + 2400Mbps)†
AX5700 Router and AX5700 Satellite (900 + 2400 + 2400Mbps)
Orbi AX6000 Router and AX6000 Satellite (2400 + 2400 + 1200Mbps)†<We could mis-construe this one by thinking that the first rate seen could be the 2.4Ghz rate, the 2nd value as the 5Ghz front haul and the 1200Mpbs as the wireless back haul. I was told that this was just backwards and the first value is the 5ghz backhaul rate, the 2nd value is the 5Ghz front haul rate and the last value is the 2.4Ghz front haul rate. I do wish NG would change this spec sheet PDF, however there you have it.
I we can presume that from the spec sheets, all Orbi AX systems seem to support 2400Mpbs on the wireles backhaul and should be seen, if the distances, signal and noise are with in specs...on the 7 series Orbi AX.
campolo313 wrote:With all due respect to whoever told you that, that is completely and utterly false.
System speed has never been based around the number of satellites, the system itself is tri-band and the "speed" is adding the band speeds together.
2.4 GHz Fronthaul - 600Mbps
5 GHz Fronthaul - 1200Mbps
5 GHz Backhaul - 2400Mbps
That's why you'll see every single Orbi RBK75X System labeled as AX4200, same with RBK85X being AX6000 with variants of each ranging between 2-4 satellites.
There's only a couple possibilities here, either it is a bug (firmware or Router GUI) or the system's specs are incorrect.I found the Actual Verbatum Statement:
"The Orbi AX4200 is a combined throughput when you have 1 router 600Mbps 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps, 1 Satellite 1200Mbps. The 2400Mbps is derived from the 2 combined satellites connecting to the router giving 1200Mbps+1200Mbps connection."So basically it is exactly what you are showing above, with the exception of 2400Mbps. The AX4200 comes from adding the router and Satellites together. The 2400Gbps is a misprint, unless anyone can show otherwise. I say this with confidence as we have installed over 2 dozen RBK73 systems. Not one of them does 2400Mbps backhaul.
>> The 2400Gbps is a misprint, unless anyone can show otherwise. I say this with confidence as we have installed over 2 dozen RBK73 systems. Not one of them does 2400Mbps backhaul.
This is the problem. Their marketing and tech specs says the backhaul (specifically the backhaul, not a combination of devices) is 2400Mbps. For those with devices, the only customer facing information says 1200Mbps. If that 1200Mbps backhaul rate is true, then this is false advertising and enters lawsuit territory.
Now, that said, I am starting to side with those saying this is a UI display issue. I finally telneted into the router and get this information (sensitive information <redacted>):
ath11 IEEE 802.11axg ESSID:"<backhaul wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:2.447 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:286.8 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm RTS thr=64 B Fragment thr:off Encryption key:<redacted> Security mode:restricted Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:59 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 gre0 no wireless extensions. eth1.4093 no wireless extensions. eth2.4093 no wireless extensions. sit0 no wireless extensions. ath02 IEEE 802.11axa ESSID:"<looks like a backend admin wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:5.24 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:1.201 Gb/s Tx-Power:28 dBm RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Encryption key:off Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:76615 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 lo no wireless extensions. eth3 no wireless extensions. eth3.4093 no wireless extensions. ipsecdummy no wireless extensions. ath01 IEEE 802.11axa ESSID:"<guest wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:5.24 GHz Access Point: Not-Associated Bit Rate:0 kb/s Tx-Power:28 dBm RTS thr=64 B Fragment thr:off Encryption key:off Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:3 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 ifb1 no wireless extensions. ath2.4093 no wireless extensions. eth2 no wireless extensions. br-guest no wireless extensions. ath2 IEEE 802.11axa ESSID:"<backhaul wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:5.785 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:2.4019 Gb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm RTS thr=64 B Fragment thr:off Encryption key:<redacted> Security mode:restricted Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-101 dBm Noise level=-101 dBm Rx invalid nwid:27534 Rx invalid crypt:12 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 ip6tnl0 no wireless extensions. teql0 no wireless extensions. ifb0 no wireless extensions. soc0 no wireless extensions. bond0 no wireless extensions. ip6gre0 no wireless extensions. miireg no wireless extensions. eth1 no wireless extensions. wifi2 no wireless extensions. ath1 IEEE 802.11axg ESSID:"<personal wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:2.447 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:286.8 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm RTS thr=64 B Fragment thr:off Encryption key:<redacted> Security mode:restricted Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:127032 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 ath13 IEEE 802.11axg ESSID:"<looks like a backend admin channel>" Mode:Master Frequency:2.447 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:286.8 Mb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Encryption key:off Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:133630 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 ath11.4094 no wireless extensions. wifi1 no wireless extensions. ath2.4094 no wireless extensions. br-lan no wireless extensions. ath11.4093 no wireless extensions. ath12 IEEE 802.11axg ESSID:"<guest wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:2.447 GHz Access Point: Not-Associated Bit Rate:0 kb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm RTS thr=64 B Fragment thr:off Encryption key:off Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 gretap0 no wireless extensions. eth0 no wireless extensions. wifi0 no wireless extensions. ath0 IEEE 802.11axa ESSID:"<personal wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:5.24 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:1.201 Gb/s Tx-Power:28 dBm RTS thr=64 B Fragment thr:off Encryption key:<redacted> Security mode:restricted Power Management:off Link Quality=0/94 Signal level=-98 dBm Noise level=-98 dBm Rx invalid nwid:67888 Rx invalid crypt:7 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0
doghound wrote:Now, that said, I am starting to side with those saying this is a UI display issue. I finally telneted into the router and get this information (sensitive information <redacted>):
alid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0How were you able to telnet into the router, since there is no provision to do so on the RBR750 router?
Interesting:
ath2 IEEE 802.11axa ESSID:"<backhaul wifi>" Mode:Master Frequency:5.785 GHz Access Point: <redacted> Bit Rate:2.4019 Gb/s Tx-Power:29 dBm
FURRYe38 wrote:Cannot get it to work with the 2.2.16.6_1.4.4 firmware.
I think I had v6 loaded when I tried this.
This file from this URL works in Windows 10x
https://github.com/insanid/NetgearTelnetEnable/blob/master/binaries/windows/telnetenable.exe
telnetEnable.exe IP address MAC Address admin password
FURRYe38 wrote:I think I had v6 loaded when I tried this.
This file from this URL works in Windows 10x
https://github.com/insanid/NetgearTelnetEnable/blob/master/binaries/windows/telnetenable.exe
telnetEnable.exe IP address MAC Address admin passwordThanks, I ran it, got the message:
"Payload has been sent to Netgear router.
Telnet should be enabled."However, Connecting To 192.168.1.1...Could not open connection to the host, on port 23: Connect failed.
I'll check mine again now that I have v22 loaded and see what I find.
Working on v22 on a RBR850:
FYI, got this from NG:
"It's a GUI issue and we will fix it in next release then."
So it's known to NG.
Hello
Just tried on my AX4200 / rbr750
Return form telnet session, using iwconfig.
Same result, backhaul throughput rated at 2400 Mhz !
It's good news ! :smileyvery-happy:
Yes, the UI should be corrected in next FW update. We hope.
Latest Firmware Version V3.2.16.22_1.4.9 does not fix the GUI reporting the wrong backhaul speed. WLAN Backhaul stil shows 1201M.
