Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Yeah, well the matter of the fact is that the DNS server/firmware is broken. There has been no fix whatsoever. Nor is there an actual solution. Only workarounds. And the users posting here that they are not facing this issue are simpy not using this router in router mode or with ipv4 (which basically is the default set-up) etc. Next to this, there is a reason why Netgear actually fixed this issue for the Orbi AX pro line-up. The reason simply being: there is an issue with the DNS server/firmware.

There seems to be a couple of ongoing and unrelated DNS issues. The one mentioned in this thread that appears on the Orbi AX was the one I too experienced and caused me to return the system. I could not fix it with any troubleshooting steps including a full reset, and support claimed they were "unaware". For an issue that has been reported last summer I found that utterly ridiculous. A basic reliability issue such as this in my opinion should have been at least noted and fixed long ago and there was just no reassurance in the slightest from Netgear support, and the fact that I would be charged for that kind of support after 90 days was just a joke to me.

The "workarounds" that have been listed so far have included manually setting the DNS on each and every device so that you would circumvent the Orbi's DNS which is just not a solution in my opinion. There was something involving using 6to4 but I didn't get a chance to test that, and for the average user that is likely to be outside of their understanding. Others appear unnaffected potentially depending on ISP setups etc but the simple matter of fact is that there are multiple customers experiencing this and it should have been fixed. It's just not acceptable. I switched to the Asus XT8 and found that too had different reliability issues, devices switching to the 2.4GHz band would just lose connection, and on the 2nd day of testing it, the system rebooted completely on its own twice so off that went back too. The Orbi RBK753 was the best performing system I have tested in terms of speeds and coverage, better too than 3 of the Asus XT8 from my expeirence. I hate to be somebody just complaining on a forum post but the reality is that regardless of what I did with the Orbi AX my experience would have been unreliable with these DNS issues. In any system that would be cause for me to return, let alone one costing between £400-1000

A new firmware just showed up 3.2.18.1 in my 750. Let me install and see if this issue is fixed.

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Ace321 wrote:

A new firmware just showed up 3.2.18.1 in my 750. Let me install and see if this issue is fixed.

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wow...you're brave

I installed 3.2.18.1 and seem to be stable so far. Can anyone share a specific site that consistently show DNS errors. I get random errors and not able to test with 3.2.18.1 unless I wait for couple of days.

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Ace321 wrote:

I installed 3.2.18.1 and seem to be stable so far. Can anyone share a specific site that consistently show DNS errors. I get random errors and not able to test with 3.2.18.1 unless I wait for couple of days.

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Have not seen that version for the RBR850 yet.

Sorry to report that DNS error is still there with 3.2.18.1.

It really makes you wonder how bad the QA department of Netgear actually is. I guess they have accepted this issue as acceptable, because I really can't imagine Netgear not knowing about this. What I think is the problem: their firmware is such a mess that it takes too much time to fix it. Therefore the problem is also not getting acknowledged, as this would uncover the fact that developers/Netgear have messed up. And now simply have moved on to developing newer products. 

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energie wrote:

It really makes you wonder how bad the QA department of Netgear actually is. I guess they have accepted this issue as acceptable, because I really can't imagine Netgear not knowing about this. What I think is the problem: their firmware is such a mess that it takes too much time to fix it. Therefore the problem is also not getting acknowledged, as this would uncover the fact that developers/Netgear have messed up. And now simply have moved on to developing newer products. 

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and to add fuel to the fire, there are folks in this forum who will talk all around the firmware issues trying to make out they don't exist.  In the end, many users in here have unknownly become beta testers.

If I enable IPV6 6to4 Tunnel, I do not see these DNS errors.

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energie wrote:

What I think is the problem: their firmware is such a mess that it takes too much time to fix it. Therefore the problem is also not getting acknowledged, as this would uncover the fact that developers/Netgear have messed up. And now simply have moved on to developing newer products. 

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This is almost certainly the case. QA departments are generally well aware of a product's faults. However fixes are prioritised by management, and in this case it appears they are prioritising smaller, easier updates (does anyone even know what the new firmware actually does?). That's not the fault of the QA department.

What I genuinely don't understand about this whole thing is that people in this thread are reporting that the exact same DNS problem was reported and fixed in their corporate line of routers last year. That suggests Netgear know the underlying cause, so what is stopping them applying the same fix to their home range of products? I can't believe the firmwares are radically different.

I tried the 6 to 4 tunnel over the weekend, and started seeing the errors come back to the same devices after about 24 hours.  

I personally think this has something to do with them integrating the Armor service and that being a priority.  Once they have our hardware purchase they aren't really focused on getting us to be repeat purchasers because consumer frequency of this sort of purchase is way to low.  They are looking at ways to monetize us further via ongoing payments for things like Armor.  If they have fixed this issue on the coporate side of things, I'm betting they haven't addressed it on this side because of some sort of issue with that software.  It's not based on much besides the fact they continue to push it so much and I'm assuming they are more interested in keeping that stream going then fixing any other issues.

Just curious do you have Armor enabled or disabled or have you ever had it enabled at any point? 

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msinex wrote:

I tried the 6 to 4 tunnel over the weekend, and started seeing the errors come back to the same devices after about 24 hours.  

 

I personally think this has something to do with them integrating the Armor service and that being a priority.  Once they have our hardware purchase they aren't really focused on getting us to be repeat purchasers because consumer frequency of this sort of purchase is way to low.  They are looking at ways to monetize us further via ongoing payments for things like Armor.  If they have fixed this issue on the coporate side of things, I'm betting they haven't addressed it on this side because of some sort of issue with that software.  It's not based on much besides the fact they continue to push it so much and I'm assuming they are more interested in keeping that stream going then fixing any other issues.

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Was Armor enabled any? 

Was a factory reset and setup  from scratch  performed since v1 was applied? 

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Ace321 wrote:

If I enable IPV6 6to4 Tunnel, I do not see these DNS errors.

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I solved my issues by buying three ASUS ZenWiFi AX (XT8). Work great and have a lot of configuration options I was missing in the Netgear Orbi. Will not be buying Netgear again.

Good luck to the rest of you still on the Orbi AX.

No, I have never had Armor or Circle enabled.  My point is that there has to be some things in the firmware that allow Armor to operate regardless of whether you enable it.  I'm no expert, but I'm assuming there are some things in that connection that impact how the DNS operates.  Perhaps them fixing the DNS issue on the consumer side impacts Armor functionality in some way.  If so, perhaps they would rather screw a small group of people who have already laid down the money for the hardware then risk impact to a likely larger group of people that they are collecting ongoing revenue from.

I solved my issue by :

- adding a 3rd satellite to my network

- upgrading the RBR850 and the 3 RBS850 to Firmware Version: V3.2.18.1_1.4.14

- switching the Orbi in AP mode

- using a peplink Balance 20X router ;-)

Now I got a stable wifi network with Orbi Wifi 6 mesh performances and a decent router doing the DHCP server, the DNS server, Firewall, load balancing, failover (between cable connection. And LTE), etc.

All you needed to do to solve the DNS issue is to put Orbi into AP mode and install a router.  The 3rd satellite and firmware update were not needed.

The firmware update fixed the daily reboot at random time of the Orbi RBR850 and RBS850. I rarely had them up for more than 48 hours. That was a real nightmare. It would crash and reboot in the middle of a Team meeting or while watching a Netflix. We went on holidays for a week and without any human activity on the network, it rebooted twice !

The third satellite was key to lower wireless backhaul network drops that also required either waiting +15 minutes or a reboot of the whole setup to get connection up. I have a fairly large house (actually two that I joined) and 3 floors. So now I have a satellite doing the relay between two others and I haven't had any connection drop since 36 hours !

 My cable operator drop the connection at night weekly but without notice for maintenance on their network. And they also have long downtime when some company cut the fiber to install a trainline or something else. Adding the peplink Balance 20X router was a fix for removing DNS issues AND add failover of my 400 Mbps cable connection with a backup 150 Mbps LTE connection.

Netgear has an Orbi that allow failover on a LTE but's is a small wifi 5 model so I picked a peplink Balance 20X ($399 on Amazon).

It's not a consumer router, it's a fairly advanced router that has many smart features : solid dns server, L2TP IPSec VPN access, remote management via InControl, SpeedFusion connection bonding, etc. 

With it's 5Ghz backlink the Orbi AX is still the best Wifi 6 mesh on the market so in combination with a peplink router for failover and advanced routing, I have a state-of-the-art Wifi meash solution. The total cost ($1400) is still competitive when I look to other comparable solutions. 

My PC is PHYSICALLY wired to the Orbi - I've overridden my PC DNS to point straight out to Google DNS due to the errors I get from the Orbi...but I wanted to upload this benchmark to demonstrate just how slow, compared to an actual local caching DNS server (my cable modem) it is in comparison.  (This doesn't account for errors/rejected lookup issues.)

Image didn't upload right..

I PERSONALLY think Netgear has fudged with dnsmasque for the purpose of data harvesting - to track all the websites users visit for data collection. 

The reason why they can't seem to fix the issue, TO ME, is that it likely breaks their data collection.  They can't  figure out how to implement dnsmasque properly without breaking their data collection process.

Dnsmasque is a pretty straightforward implementation that no one else seems to have problems with unless the base dnsmasque code has problems.

I've reached the end of my rope with this DNS issue.  I love the performance of the router outside of the DNS issue, and since I can't return it I'm thinking the best route forward is to throw it in AP mode and put another router in.  That seems utterly ridculous in my mind to solve such a basic glaring error, but I feel it's cost effective to at least give it a try.

It sounds like others have gone down this route.  Can you provide what router you used that behaved well with the Orbi?  I'm not looking for something super complex, just stable and won't impact the speed.  Would like to avoid Netgear products for that for obvious reasons.  Thanks for the help!