NETGEAR is aware of a growing number of phone and online scams. To learn how to stay safe click here.
Forum Discussion
Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues
I have had the Orbi AX6000 for a few months now. While there are many things I love about it (great wifi coverage, great speed, looks nice, software, ease of setup, etc.), there are two very frustra...
The problem with the fixes (or non-fixes) is that they universally require at least some tech-savvy, which most (if not all) the posters here have. The larger overarching problem is that my mother does not.
She doesn't even have internet, but you get my point - the majority of users do not have the knowledge/ability to ascertain what's really going on (and likely why Orbi's controls are so dumbed down).
There is no doubt in my mind (at least what's still there) that the vast majority of people with this issue aren't even looking at this thread. They are calling their ISP, thinking something is just wrong with the internet or their computer/browser, etc.
The more people (read "average users") know about the problem, the louder the voice gets.
tak1313 , this is definately my biggest frustration. They are marketing this as consumer grade, but the firmware is buggy as hell. This is bad enough, but then it is made much worse with very poor tech support with a very limited window in ordre to attempt to monetize a fix to a problem that shouldn't exist. I know enough about networking to be dangerous, but I'm by no means an expert. I'm just sick and tired of spending so much time trying to fix this issue regardless of my IT expertise. They either need to fix the issue, provide appropriate support, or stop marketing this thing as consumer-grade. I also think there is some shadiness behind what they are doing with Armour...but that's a whole other topic.
Consumer grade at pro prices. Orbi is one of the most expensive (if not THE most expensive) home mesh system on the market. Google, Eero, TP-Link, etc. all have mesh systems at WAY lower price points. Even Netgear has a cheaper mesh system (ala Nighthawk line).
Orbi is marketed as their concierge priced system, but it works like the corner dive drug motel (with similar service).
Forgot to mention - the difficulty is getting some kind of GOOD media attention because invariably, Netgear will be an advertiser on their site, and so they (media) have need to "keep the advertisers happy." I think DongKnows has a policy of telling it like it is, but I'm not sure.
At this point I truly believe that there are no good consumer grade routers. If you want a decent router these days you'll have to get a business grade cisco or something. Unless you want to bet on some random chinese crap off amazon and try to find the one that works for what you need it.
I work in IT my whole life and I can clearly see how over the years home-grade products are getting locked down and dumbed down while the actual technology in them getting more complex. The problem is that average users want a device that does everything but is controlled with 3 buttons via an app on their phone and manufacturers do exactly that. And some things just cannot be simplified to this extent. For example my previous orbi had more settings in it's interface than this current one. And a simple netgear router I had before that had even more settings.
And then the development and qa goes offshore to the cheapest countries where they can hire 5 engineers for the price of one. And this is the result of all that.
Noticed this as well. Not only with NG products, with other major router mfrs. They no longer do there own core development. 3rd parties are at play now. Notices that across the board, home product experiences have declinded over the past 10+ years. Sad to see this though.
stsh wrote:At this point I truly believe that there are no good consumer grade routers. If you want a decent router these days you'll have to get a business grade cisco or something. Unless you want to bet on some random chinese crap off amazon and try to find the one that works for what you need it.
I work in IT my whole life and I can clearly see how over the years home-grade products are getting locked down and dumbed down while the actual technology in them getting more complex. The problem is that average users want a device that does everything but is controlled with 3 buttons via an app on their phone and manufacturers do exactly that. And some things just cannot be simplified to this extent. For example my previous orbi had more settings in it's interface than this current one. And a simple netgear router I had before that had even more settings.
And then the development and qa goes offshore to the cheapest countries where they can hire 5 engineers for the price of one. And this is the result of all that.
Sadly, with the exception of individuals on forums like this and other "tech" forums, the bottom line is that the vast majority of consumers demand the simplicity but combined with the complex capability. They WANT the set and forget - the "I don't want to think about how to make things work" (or even think at all) mentality of the modern consumer.
We, consumers at large, cut our own throats on these matters.
Everyone wants better, stronger, faster, but cheaper. This has given rise to offshoring for ever cheaper and cheaper cost of goods (and Walmart), but at the cost of ever decreasing quality.
Even houses in the U.S. have gotten bigger and better (as far as amenities), but the result is that oh so many houses are now built with shoddy materials by shoddy contractors using shoddy construction techniques.
Netgear is now the house that consumerism built.
I first saw this start back in 2012 when Smart Connect wifi feature made it's debut. Advanced features seen at the time on prior router products started disappearing. The home user just wants it simple so the router mfrs started to comply.
I am now using my old Asus N66U router (with custom firmware) as router and the Orbi AX as access point. Up until now I am not seeing any DNS errors (which is to be expected). But I did gain a lot more fine grained options in return. I am not sure how (and if) this set-up will impact the overall performance of my network. The wired devices are still connected to the primary Orbi AX router (= now access point).
I get all the issues with them having to "dummy-down" options and such to make it consumer-grade, but I think that isn't really a driver of the DNS issues in my mind. It's not like Netgear removed the ability to set your own DNS settings in the interface, it's the fact that this option doesn't work when you set it. Let's be honest, a stable DNS interface should be a pretty baseline expectation of any entry-level router.
I still think this has something to do with them wanting to sell their "Armor" service to get a monthly benefit on top of the large upfront investment. I also tend to think they are also using the Armor service to capture data on traffic usage for their own purposes or monetization. They fixed this same issue with their professional series which doesn't have the Armor service (I don't think it does at least), so I'm betting they are either unwilling or unable to fix it because of some impact back to how that "upgrade" functions.
Yeah, I guess it could have something to do with Armor or its implementation. In any case, the only thing we really do know is that the DNS resolving mechanism on the Orbi AX is defective. My best guess on this is that Netgear doesn't want to put resources/butget in to fixing the firmware anymore. The only focus seems to be easy to resolve security updates or indeed things like Armor. Which provide an additional income for Netgear. It is frustrating. But this has been the case since last year for this product and I don't think this will change.
And even it will change. What does it say about Netgear taking 1 year to resolve a problem like this.I think this is simply the business model. It happened to me years ago aswell with a Netgear router I had back then. I said never again Netgear. And guess what. Nothing changed.
Completely agree, very frustrating. More so, since some of the advertised features are still not available. With Circle parental controlls gone (unless you purchase the Circle device directly) and the Netgear Parental Controls not yet available. I noticed the website has been updated to not advertise this, but at the time of purchase, Parental controls was an advertised feature. Interesting to see how long it's taking for it to come to their flagship Orbi AX4200 and AX6000 mesh systems.
Is it actually working for those that have an AC3000 system? https://www.netgear.com/home/services/smart-parental-controls/
Yes. There was a slight change in where they put PC in the UI,
however the feature is still controlled by the Circle App:
SeaRefractor wrote:Completely agree, very frustrating. More so, since some of the advertised features are still not available. With Circle parental controlls gone (unless you purchase the Circle device directly) and the Netgear Parental Controls not yet available. I noticed the website has been updated to not advertise this, but at the time of purchase, Parental controls was an advertised feature. Interesting to see how long it's taking for it to come to their flagship Orbi AX4200 and AX6000 mesh systems.
Is it actually working for those that have an AC3000 system? https://www.netgear.com/home/services/smart-parental-controls/
So it's still Circle? And Circle has not come to the AX series of Orbi's yet? Wow, just wow.
energie wrote:I am now using my old Asus N66U router (with custom firmware) as router and the Orbi AX as access point. Up until now I am not seeing any DNS errors (which is to be expected). But I did gain a lot more fine grained options in return. I am not sure how (and if) this set-up will impact the overall performance of my network. The wired devices are still connected to the primary Orbi AX router (= now access point).
Mine got better, with the caveat that my servic is only 100mpbs, so wan - lan throughput isn't an issue where most of any bottlenecking would occur depending on the processor/memory of the router (I am using an RT-AC86U).
Where mine significantly improved was in bufferbloat using Asus' QOS settings. Orbi, with it's dumbed down WMM could not control enough of the bufferbloat that was occuring. Using the Asus as router, I set the QOS priority along with a download limit of 120 (go figure), and upload limit of 5.4 (my 'rated' upload limit is 5), and I went from a C/D for bufferbloat to A/A+. My wife no longer has stuttering problems with the Zoom meetings for work.
energie wrote:Yeah, I guess it could have something to do with Armor or its implementation. In any case, the only thing we really do know is that the DNS resolving mechanism on the Orbi AX is defective. My best guess on this is that Netgear doesn't want to put resources/butget in to fixing the firmware anymore. The only focus seems to be easy to resolve security updates or indeed things like Armor. Which provide an additional income for Netgear. It is frustrating. But this has been the case since last year for this product and I don't think this will change.
And even it will change. What does it say about Netgear taking 1 year to resolve a problem like this.I think this is simply the business model. It happened to me years ago aswell with a Netgear router I had back then. I said never again Netgear. And guess what. Nothing changed.
I still PERSONALLY think the underlying issue is that they mucked up dnsmasque and THAT is what they're using to mine for IP data (versus only mining for data through paying customers with Armor). Fixing dnsmasque s/b fairly straightforward, yet they can't do it. They diabled telnet because some were going in and fixing/altering dnsmasque themselves.
They can't figure out how to fix dnsmasque and still have it snatch the data from all the users.
No, I do not also believe there is a sub species of aliens disguised as humans that will one day rise and take over civilization.
I believe no. I think the core feature is NGs code but NG uses the Cicle app as the interface and configuration for it.
NG said in the next few months from what one of the forum moderators said. If I remember it took NG same time frame to get Circle on there Orbi AC systems. May have been there CBR40 that took a bit to get going. Not the first time.
SeaRefractor wrote:So it's still Circle? And Circle has not come to the AX series of Orbi's yet? Wow, just wow.
Asus Router / Orbi AP (or just use Asus) = FREE parental controls (and free IP protection).
Dicslaimer - I do NOT work or know anyone/is related to anyone working for Asus. I just REALLY like Asus after experiencing what Orbi can (and mostly can't) do.
I wish I could agree with you on ASUS. There at least have some problems on FW. Though they at least have Merlin to help with 3rd party FW. There support is at least if not even worse than NGs. My friend who has a GT-AX1100 router as I do, is on his 4th unit in only a few months. We both notice that when we contact ASUS support regarding a problem, we are handed off by several different support reps just for one support ticket. My one ticket agains the GT router still hasn't been addressed fully and have not heard back from then in almost 3 months. I do like there HW and mostly there FW is ok. Merlins makes corrections where he can for the models he supports. He just picked up the GT router as well. ASUS is not that stellar though IMO.
FURRYe38 wrote:I wish I could agree with you on ASUS. There at least have some problems on FW. Though they at least have Merlin to help with 3rd party FW. There support is at least if not even worse than NGs. My friend who has a GT-AX1100 router as I do, is on his 4th unit in only a few months. We both notice that when we contact ASUS support regarding a problem, we are handed off by several different support reps just for one support ticket. My one ticket agains the GT router still hasn't been addressed fully and have not heard back from then in almost 3 months. I do like there HW and mostly there FW is ok. Merlins makes corrections where he can for the models he supports. He just picked up the GT router as well. ASUS is not that stellar though IMO.
You can disagree with me based on you and your friend's experience, and I can disagree based on my personal experience with Asus. What cannot be disputed is that this has been an ongoing problem for the Orbi line that NG has not been able to resolve (or chooses not to). And I can personally tell you that I have not have had any DNS problems with my Asus as router and Orbi as AP, and others have had the same positive results with other router brands using Orbi as an AP.
I can also tell you that Orbi's QOS ability s*cks compared to Orbi (the main reason I switched back to routing with the Asus), and can provide data to show it. I can also state with certainty that Asus routers include features for free that Netgear charges for.
I can also state that the reason I switched from an AC Orbi to AX Orbi was paritally because of speed problems I was seeing with the AC that I THOUGHT was a localization problem, only to find out later that the REAL problem is that Orbi's FIRMWARE is faulty and falls back to 2.4ghz backhaul even when there is sufficient 5ghz signal.
I do not claim Asus to be any kind of Godsend (although with Merlin it's pretty close), and perusal of my other posts will show that I clearly state that EVERY brand has issues/problems of some kind, and even firmware problems at times.
Well all I can say is that for those of you who are effect by this issue, users and NG need to make contact and keep on them about it. Nothing we can do here in the forums to help you out aside from whats already been discussed and alternative solutions mentioned.
Merlin is one reason why sometimes I'll use ASUS. Otherwise, there limited use for me. Seen other ASUS users in there forums with similar problems that seem to plague this industry. Its a shame it's like this. Seems to be more focused on the money and "fabrique en chine" than quality :smileyembarrassed:
Good Luck.
