Nest Thermostat Batteries LOW on a new ORBI AX setup

Seems like the adapter should be keeping the NEST charged from what I understand. 

turbojimmy2 

Please make contact with Christian_R 

Ask for access to Firmware v3.2.18.223. Beta is ready and being made available for those who want to try this version. 

"Unknown/Phantom Satellite is showing up in the Orbi App
Netgear logs of Satellite are not collected in GUI debug logs
DNS issues"

Though it doesn't say anything about NEST issues, possible it may work better for you. 

Once you get the files, update the RBS first then RBR lastly. I would power OFF all units for 30 seconds then back ON. Same with your ISP MODEM/ONT. 

If any issues are still seen, you'll need to do a factory reset and clean setup from scratch. 

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FURRYe38 wrote:

Seems like the adapter should be keeping the NEST charged from what I understand. 

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Yes that was my understanding as well. I don't know how it actually works, but the situation is much better now. They go offline very infrequently now. Maybe once a week at most. And rather than plug them into a USB charger I just wait. After a few hours they come back online. Not a perfect situation but at least I don't have to manually charge them.

I've requested access to that firmware update.

Ok, thanks for the details. Seems like the new beta isn't working either. Mine keeps disconnecting and low battery every couple of days. I've put a different Orbi system online, SRK30 and it's doing the same thing. Prior non NG router system I had online worked fine. Lordy I wish NG would fix this finally. :smileyfrustrated:

I came to this forum for help, after installing the new router last week, from the old orbis I have, and I never had a problem till the new ones..   After following this,  either Netger or Nest updates their issues by updating their software . No I shouldn't have to have my router 20 feet away, no I shouldn't have to lower the power. 
So I resolved my issue after multiple devises to try to help, NO the NEST power connector does not work with the orbis at my home, the only thing I have gotten to work is this device.  Venstar acc0410 add a wire kit.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IF3QXMC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

it adds a 5th wire to a four wire system. It has worked perfectly the past few days. It's real simple to add to a 1 thermostat home.  

In the end either Nest or Netgear has dropped the ball the past year, by not solving the issue.

Thanks for posting. v1 FW seemed to be the most stable for me. I have since graduated to a beta which now the problem seems to have re-appeared on the beta. So I need to gather logs again. 

Ya I believe NEST and NG need to review this. I see that NEST has made some changes as well. I don't see the large WIFI signal on the control anymore when the controller disconnects. I asked them to provide notification on the NEST app to let users know when controlers become disconnected from the wifi router and or a low battery condition. Would be nice to have a notification on the APP for users to see, not just see that the controller isn't connected on the Apps page. 

I went back to my Orbi RBK50 series earlier this week and the controller has been stable since. I'll have to reconnect to the Orbi RBK853 system and collect logs...again. 

Okay I gave up. The thermostats are dying more frequently now even with the power adapter. I just installed an old router and set up a WiFi network just for the Nest thermostats.

I have a couple of 2.4Ghz WiFi switches set up to control my garage doors. I had lost the ability to use them when I set up the Orbi's so now I can use those again.

Funny you should post this this morning. 

After again having problems with my one 3rd Gen NEST on v223 beta is it was loaded and v1 had been working for me, the battery power levels kept dropping, so I changed my setting on the RBR power set for 50% up from 25%, and set CTS from 64 to 2347 last nite. Been using manual channels 11 and 48 since v223 got loaded and started having NEST problems again. I had been messing around with a 2ndary router that I had the NEST connected to so it went back to the RBR850 whist I was messing around, thus battery had drained prior to me making these last changes last nite. So I had to put it on a charge for a few minutes. After making the changes and putting a charge on the NEST, I watched the volts on the NEST and they held this time and seemed to increase from 3.71 to 3.77v last nite. Just checking now from work, the app shows it's at 3.82volts. Only when the volts get down to 3.6something does the controller fall off and report low battery. 

I was thinking that distance from the NEST to the RBR was maybe too close, however last changes in power levels and CTS seem to show something different. Mines about 4 feet from the RBR. I've been fighting this with CTS set to default 64 and maybe NEST prefers 2347. I noticed there was a NEST update as well since I had been using v1. 

So for now will continue to monitor it. For me at least, CTS 2347 and power at 50% on manual channel 11 and 48 seems to look good for mine. 

I hope it works for you.

I feel that a user shouldn't have to go through all of these hoops to make it work. I need to keep mine on 100% power because I need the range.

Another thing that is now corrected with the Nest thermostats being on a different network is my temp sensors dropping off. I have 3 temp sensors connected to the 2 thermostats. They would drop off as well. One got to a point where it stopped connecting to my upstairs thermostat at all. This was happening while the thermostats were still online (battery not dead). They magically reconnected and have stayed connected now.

Is that pretty much like the Nest power adapter but provides more power? Installs at the air handler?

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Bosjoe65 wrote:
The power adaptes did not work. My solution is still working fine. It's real simple and will save you this headache. It adds a 5th wire. It was the cheapest solution then running a new wire. The thermostat needs more power then supplied by that adapter.
Still Netgear and Nest fault. But I been happy with my solution.

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What channels and values are you using? 

Do you have the v223 beta loaded? If so, give my settings a try and see. Try power at 100% on yours however change channels and CTS values...monitor the voltage either at the controller or on the app...

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turbojimmy2 wrote:

I hope it works for you.

 

I feel that a user shouldn't have to go through all of these hoops to make it work. I need to keep mine on 100% power because I need the range.

 

Another thing that is now corrected with the Nest thermostats being on a different network is my temp sensors dropping off. I have 3 temp sensors connected to the 2 thermostats. They would drop off as well. One got to a point where it stopped connecting to my upstairs thermostat at all. This was happening while the thermostats were still online (battery not dead). They magically reconnected and have stayed connected now.

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Current readings on my 3rd gen NEST:

This is up from 3.71 from last nite when I made the changes. 

Now I have 1 thermostat.  The device I linked is similiar. At the thermostat they have you a wire that converts it 2 wires. At the controller they have a box about the same size as the power connector from nest. The video they have shows how to do it. took me less then 15 mins. The other options you have if you have a 4 wire system you can remove the fan control wire and use that for your constant power. The fan control wire on my system just controls the fan if you just want to circulate the air without ac or heat. It totally woked that way for me too, but we wanted to keep the option of running just the fan once in awhile. 

As you mention 2 thermostats, you would have to read on the reviews. you might have to buy two. Honestly this has worked great after pulling my hair out for a week trying to find out what was going on after adding the new Orbs to replace my old ones. Never thought it was the new orbs causing the issue till I searched it out. 

My one 2nd Gen NEST has never had a problem with Orbi AX. Only the 3rd Gen NEST. 

I went back to the defaults. I'll have to download the v223 beta and try it.

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FURRYe38 wrote:

What channels and values are you using? 

Do you have the v223 beta loaded? If so, give my settings a try and see. Try power at 100% on yours however change channels and CT

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Try 2347 on v223...Let us know.

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turbojimmy2 wrote:

I went back to the defaults. I'll have to download the v223 beta and try it.

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FURRYe38 wrote:

What channels and values are you using? 

Do you have the v223 beta loaded? If so, give my settings a try and see. Try power at 100% on yours however change channels and CT

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If my NEST keeps working, I'll revert my changes back to 64 and 25% and see if I see the voltage drop on the NEST. If it does, then I would presume that maybe most of the cause is the CTS value. 

turbojimmy2 

So just FYI, something I noticed this past week ever since I setup another Orbi system in my house and it's main router at my desk. Two other RBS located in the bedroom downstairs and the other in the room were the NEST is mounted on the entrance to this room. Even though running far different channels on this other Orbi system and running at 25% lower power, I noticed this 3rd Gen NEST started dropping battery power. After I turned OFF the RBS in this room near the 3rd GEN NEST, the battery maintained power levels, however got low enough, it seemed to slowly drain down to where it reported low battery. I recharged the NEST up again last nite and it was at 3.74v at 10pm and checking a few minutes ago, it still at 3.74v. Wondering if 3rd gen NESTs are impacted by other wifi signal noise. I had first noticed that after I made the change to CTS to 2347 and channel 11 and 48. I had my RBR50 online at at desk and removed it from service and put a SXR30 series online. After I had played with this and got it up and running on channel 1 and 36, after an hour of messing around with this and adding it's satellites, I checked the NEST and found the volts had dropped and that very same night it reported low battery and fell off the connection to the Orbi 8 series. Wondering if 3rd GEN NEST are more sensitive with wifi signals. I may swap NEST locations with my 2nd gen downstairs in the bedroom and see if the problem follows. Really starting to hate these controllers. But they work well with other MESH systems including my RBK50. :smileyembarrassed:

Hey turbojimmy2 

What is the distance between your RBR and NEST controller(s)??

I found something with mine. Normal distance between my 3rd gen NEST and any router placement where I keep mine is about 4-5 feet in between. I noticed that when I moved my RBR850 over to my desk thats about 25-30 feet away, the NEST connected here, the controller has been to spec on voltages and has not dropped any since I moved the RBR850 farther away. 

I also noticed that my SXR30 router that was put in the normal place thats close to the NEST controller also causes the NEST to loose power and eventually see the low battery. I'm wondering if there is a problem with NEST being too close to wifi signals or at least, too close to Orbi AX systems. What bothers me is that other non Orbi AX systems and Orbi AC RBK50 placed in same close location near this controller doesn't cause this problem. I only see this with the Orbi RBK8 series and SXK30 series in this location. 

One Nest is about 15 feet from the RBR. The other is about 20 feet from the RBS. The one 15 feet away does die faster. The one near the RBS lives longer now that I put the RBS further away from it.

Still, the only sure way to fix it for me was to put the Nest thermostats on their own, non-Orbi WiFi network. Voltage has been consistently 3.87-3.88 on both of them.

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FURRYe38 wrote:

Hey turbojimmy2 

What is the distance between your RBR and NEST controller(s)??

 

I found something with mine. Normal distance between my 3rd gen NEST and any router placement where I keep mine is about 4-5 feet in between. I noticed that when I moved my RBR850 over to my desk thats about 25-30 feet away, the NEST connected here, the controller has been to spec on voltages and has not dropped any since I moved the RBR850 farther away. 

 

I also noticed that my SXR30 router that was put in the normal place thats close to the NEST controller also causes the NEST to loose power and eventually see the low battery. I'm wondering if there is a problem with NEST being too close to wifi signals or at least, too close to Orbi AX systems. What bothers me is that other non Orbi AX systems and Orbi AC RBK50 placed in same close location near this controller doesn't cause this problem. I only see this with the Orbi RBK8 series and SXK30 series in this location. 

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Ok. Not sure if this is a problem with these 3rd GEN NEST at some closer distances or combination of distance and Orbi AX FW. 

Since I moved the RBR850 over to my desk, the NEST has been stable at 3.86volts. I'm going to let it run into the weekend.

I'll send this info to NG. 

Please try as far as possible between the RBR/RBS and NEST if you can. 25-30 feet. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

turbojimmy2 

Just FYI, past couple of weeks I have tested my 3rd gen NEST connected to the RBR850 and a SXR30 while located at my desk 25-30 feet away from where the NEST is located. Both routers and distance seem to not impact the NEST battery levels. I do noticed that when I'm fiddling around with wifi signals or bringing RBS online afterwards, the NEST battery level seems to be effected some, however once everything is left alone, the NEST and battery stablizes. As of this past weekend I swapped in my 8 series at my desk for the 30 series router and the NEST has been connected to it and battery is stable. I thought I saw a minor drop yesterday in battery voltage at 3.77v however checking today it's at 3.86v. Have seen no low batteries when at this distance. I did have to do a reset on the NEST and setup from scratch as I had seen low batteries after a day or two and forgot that something caused the NEST to disconnect from the router at my desk and reconenct to the router nearest the NEST thus would cause the low battery to be seen. After I reset the NEST fully to forget all prior SSID profiles, the NEST has remained connected to the router at my desk and seems to work well. NG has also mentioned some duty cycle information regarding NEST activity during the day and controlling the environment. Were looking into this for additional information. Not sure where this duty cycle information is on NEST. Will find out. However just from these simple distance configurations and working between two different Orbi AX systems, just seems that if the RBR is too close to the NEST, some unknown processes are causing the battery to drain. If at 25-30 feet from the NEST, the battery doesn't seem effected. Only seems to be with Orbi AX systems also. :smileyfrustrated: Orbi AC system doesn't see this. :smileywink:

I've also looked into the C wire and luckily we had installed the extra wire cabling for the thermostats so eventually, we will be connecting the NESTs to this wired and should no longer have this problem. http://support-assets.nest.com/images/pro-faq/Nest-Pro-Installer-Guide.pdf 

I have one more wifi router system to check before hand. 

Unfortunately the only real fix is not to use the Nest thermostat with the Orbi. I don't know whether it's a Nest issue or Netgear issue or both but they're not going to fix it. I tried all of the suggestions here only to end in frustration. And I needlessly spent $$ on the Nest power supplies.

I dug out my old WiFi router and set up a separate network connected to the Orbi. Connected the thermostats to this new WifFi network. Problem solved.