New - RBRE960 / RBSE960 Firmware Version 7.2.6.31 Released

Not sure what next_hop is, but I if you see "Hop Count" blank on the debug page of either RBS, then nothing will connect to it and it will drop any device that was connected.

Don't look at logs, go to the debug.htm page off your satellite's IP address. You will have to get that from your "Attached Devices" link under Basic, when you log in to the Routers Web page (like for me, 192.168.1.1). Find the IP address of the RBSs - check them both - type 192.168.1.yyy/debug.htm (where 192.168.1.yyy is the address of each RBS from the Attached Devices list), log in with your admin log in to the router, and you'll see a page like the one I show below - you can see Hop Count.

If either RBS has a Hop Count of blank, let us know if it's the WiFi- or Ethernet-backhaul satellite.

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reddavin wrote:

Thank you for the replies.  i'll try to answer as much as i can.  i'm farily technical, but not expert in things networking by any stretch.

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? "No idea. Verizon GIGabit. ethernet cable from that is connected to RBR.  goes thru APC backups Pro 500."

So no markings on the modem or ONT unit? There any kind of wifi router built in to this unit? 

Be sure your using a good quality LAN cable between the modem and router. CAT6A STP is recommended. "It's all CAT6 24AWG UTP" CAT6A STP would be recommended since the WAN port on the RBR is 10Gb. There is a diffence.
How many RBS are deployed? "2 RBS"
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? "2600 sq ft.  split level, 3 levels. router on L1, RBS on L2, L3"

For this size of home, the RBR and just ONE RBS would be needed. 

Can you turn OFF one of the RBS and test please. 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s) "Diff levels of house.  at least 30 ft."
How is RBS ethernet connected to the RBR? Directly or is there a LAN switch in between? Brand and model of LAN switch in between? "1 RBS - WIFI, 1 RBS - Wired. DLink switch inline"

What is the model # of this D-Link switch please. 

What CAT# LAN cable is being used between the RBR and RBS? "Cat6"

Are the RBS ethernet connected using the Multi Gig Port or the 1Gb ports in back of the RBS? 

How was the FW applied? Orbi app? Auto Update? Manually with a PC and web browser? "Web Browser/PC"
Was RBS updated first then RBR lastly? "Netgear support had me update RBR first, then hardwire to each RBS and update manually"

FYI, not sure why support had you do the RBR first. The RBS need to be updated first ALWAYS. To ensure they can reconnect to the RBR once it's updated, lastly. 

 

Go to 192.168.1.1/debug.htm and monitor Hop Count. "new territory.  I created the log and looked at it.  next_hop = 0, sometimes = 1."

Hop Count shows a (0) character or just blank instead of 1? 

 

rookie mistake...today, Orbi automatically applied the .31 release.  doh.  the above log is with .31 installed.  iphone has already been dropping wifi randomly throughout the day.  i suspect it is having issues connecting to different end points as i move around. but even then, while working throughout the day, it goes to 5g randomly. i'm going to follow the (helpful) instructions linked above to flash back to .21.  AND turn off automatic updated. seems like a better version in my case.

Be sure to disable any MAC Address randomizers on phones and pads while at home:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/NETGEAR-Mobile-Applications-and-Apple-Devices-FAQ/td-p/2220016/jump-to/first-unread-message

 

 

previous 850 system was good for many years.  the 960 hasn't been good (for the month i had it on .31.)  I got the impression from NetGear support that they are aware of this issue with .31 and are trying to address. (whatever that issue is...?)

We can't blame the FW just yet. Need to check the items suggested above first and before reverting back versions. Lets narrow this down more for v.31.

 

 

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Ok correct RBR doesn't have Hop Count. Only the RBS.

Could be some line noises on UTP cablng. Un-sheilded.

STP is shielded and recommended for the connected from the RBR to the ONT. 

Since you have only a 1 Gb service, and the switch your using is only 1Gb connection rated, Please connect the connecting cables from the switch to the back of the RBS using the 1Gb LAN ports. Theres no need for the 2.5Gb LAN port. 

Also lets test with just one RBS enabled. Turn OFF the 2nd one for a while. 

Are you using IPv6 on the RBR?

Does your ISP support native IPv6 at all? 

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reddavin wrote:
The RBR doesn’t have hop count. The 2 RBS show 1. I like the 3 units because I need WiFi to outdoor cameras and other smart things. I have 1 gig service. Why would I need cables that support 10 gig? The wire to the RBS would be nearly impossible to replace. It could be WiFi but we had the wire so figured I’d use it. It’s connected to the 2.5 input. Nothing on the ONT. it’s a square box on the outside of the house. Verizon upgraded it when they installed the gig service. Dlink 8 port gigabit switch DGS-108

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reddavin wrote:
Why would I need cables that support 10 gig? 

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I doubt you do unless the distance is quite long.  We're in a similar sized 3 level home with one 960 and two Sats.  Both SATs are wired directly to the 960, and the cables are 50' to 100' and from the 90s - probably CAT5 - not even CAT5e. I'm yet to see any cable changes solve a thing.  If you had over 100' foot runs maybe, but otherwise no - especially if the 850 was working well with your existing wiring.  My 850 was far more stable than the 960 - not as fast, but less problematic.  That said, 7.2.6.21 has been fairly decent.  I have not even sold my 850 yet because last year was a nightmare, but now I could let it go.  For the most part, the 960 setup is working well.

I have not tried this build and am going to sit on it until I have time to test as well as revert based on comments here.

I'd say, get the RBK963 working well with 7.2.6.21 and once you have that, then worry about new releases.  FWIW, when I check for upgrades, nothing shows up - interesting that yours did it automatically. 

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reddavin wrote:
Yes, at this point I’m tired of the drama. And spent way more time on this expensive system. I was going to roll it back this evening, but we watched Survivor, and I had a cat on my lap. Priorities. I’ll see how it goes tomorrow and probably roll it back. That was the recommendation from Netgear, maybe they know more about the reliability of .31.

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to be fair, the drama I had last year post 850 was

1) a disagreement between the 960 and the xFi B7 gateway that Netgear Support solved with an update. That was impressive.

2) Comcast upgrading their system and causing disruptions several times a week.  The 960 did not like that!  I was finally able to figure out it was an Xfinity issue.

At this point, I've been happy with the 960 since last fall when Comcast apparently finished doing its thing - upside is they gave us much faster internet for the same price...so far.

And still seems to be ongoing with that ISP as well from this thread:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WIFI-6-AX-AND-Wi-Fi-6E-AXE/Wont-allow-updates-RBR850-with-RBS850/td-p/2367369/jump-to/first-unread-message

I don't think there is any instability issues with v.31 FW. Based off v.21 being solid and well tested back then, and making adjustments to the WiFi and inclusion of the EU Region, I don't believe there is any cause for instabilities. Seems like from this thread and others, v.31 is being well received san installation mis-understandings. Again, update RBS FIRST, then RBR lastly and doing a manual update. No drama here. 

Also having too much RBS in smaller sized homes will cause problems. Why we ask about home size. No FW can correct for this. 

Also, I believe that with CC and XF, there IPv6 DNS handling maybe cause of Orbi systems not working right. Hoping that with donawalt testing and observations with using other non ISP IPv6 DNS configurations, hopefully will show good results here. We have our fingers crossed here.

bullm00n 

Re:

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Also having too much RBS in smaller sized homes will cause problems. Why we ask about home size. No FW can correct for this. 

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I couldn't agree more. The 960 series has a strong signal. I get a very strong 5GHz and 6Ghz signal on other floors of a house with high ceilings. My iPhone connects to the router, with strong signal and good speeds, when it is TWO floors below my bedroom!

The very best bet is use a WiFi signal analyzer - I know there are at least 2 good apps on the Mac that are free and simple to use, I assume there are comparable ones in the Windows world too. You just walk around and watch the signal strength, starting with just the router on - you'll get a nice picture of the house. Then figure best place to place the RBSs.

Satellites should be popositioned where there is no/very weak signal if using Ethernet backhaul. They need to be put where there is decent signal near an area with bad signal for WiFi backhaul. If you start out with just the router temporarily running (RBSs off), walk around with a laptop running a signal analyzer, you will be surprised at the signal strength. I used to have 3 satellites, one on each floor, and I discovered that was overkill. By pulling an RBS and re-positioning the others, a lot of weirdness in mobile devices losing their signal went away.

I can get away with running the RBR and just one RBS wirelessly in my 5000sq ft home. Though I normally run two and both are ethernet connected and the power on the RBR is turned down to 25%. Plenty of coverage and operation with this configuration. 

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FURRYe38 wrote:

I can get away with running the RBR and just one RBS wirelessly in my 5000sq ft home. Though I normally run two and both are ethernet connected and the power on the RBR is turned down to 25%. Plenty of coverage and operation with this configuration. 

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I have tired with just one for a time.  It is OK, but not optimal.  I actually can get by with the RBR, but that's not so great.  More a shape of the house thing and I also want coverage outside on my deck, so one of the RBS is placed to make sure that works.  And another towards the front for security cams.  Those are the tough ones since it has to get through exterior walls.  But I do have the 2.4 radio set to 50%.

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FURRYe38 wrote:

And still seems to be ongoing with that ISP as well from this thread:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-WIFI-6-AX-AND-Wi-Fi-6E-AXE/Wont-allow-updates-RBR850-with-RBS850/td-p/2367369/jump-to/first-unread-message

 

 

bullm00n 

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I read that thread too and the related Xfinity forum thread.  There's a lot reported there that I have never experienced with the 850 or the 960.  Although I have the XB7 gateway, and the Xfinity thread seems to indicate it's an XB8 issue which I cannot comment on since we've never had that model.  With an XB7, though, it normally works fine - unless Xfinity are rolling out different configs in different markets which I suppose could be possible.

I don't see any speed trail off / drop in UL/DL from wired devices or otherwise, no matter if they are direct to the RBS or wired through a switch to the RBR.  My house it older, the cables are from 1996, and some of the runs are probably 100'. But I have seen bad connectors / cables muck things up and be difficult to run down - have to wonder how well they've checked their connections.

How have people found the update so far?

If your not seeing it, then may not be made available for auto udpate. If you want to update, you can manually install the update your self using the noted manual installation process.

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liamscor wrote:

How have people found the update so far?

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Performance has been fine for me. I have Ethernet connected laptops and WiFi throughout the house. I have tested both Orbi 850 and 2 RBS 850s, as well as now, Orbi 960 RBR and 2 RBS 960s. I also went from 1GB/35 Comcast service -> 1GB/200 Comcast service -> 2GB/200 Comcast service on this firmware. Ethernet and WiFi (5GHz and 6GHz devices) have tested fine with speed test. No issues that I saw on 2.4GHz IoT devices.

In general, I think the latest firmware is a little cleaner than the prior version. I am always hopeful the next version will be better still!

2 somewhat related Notes:

1) To me, the WiFi range of the 960 is a little better than the 850 - hence a little better speeds at the same locations. That's anecdotal of course...

2) Do not trust the Orbi app for its speed test. I am convinced at least for me, it must be connecting to some site that's very heavily used or a longer distance away. For example, I frequently get download speeds on the Orbi app around 1500-1800 Mbps, but immediately after if I test with a device (iPad, iPhone, Mac) direct connected to the router, I get 2250-2300 Mbps - over-provisioned. I get 2250-2300 on my Mac laptop that is connected via Ethernet cable that runs throughout the house.

I documented this test in its own thread on the Orbi app forum.

So, this was not a great feeling...

1 - checking for updates never showed an update available - this for a few weeks

2 - today, I had some time, so I went for a manual update

3 - RBS 1 - no problem

4 - RBS 2 - no problem

5 - RBR960 took 3 times to finally get the firmware to take - it would reboot and be still at .21, after the 3rd try, it worked.

Hasn't been up long enough to know how well things are going, but beyond the update issues, I'm back online and so far, so good.

Oh, and the dropdown list "Associated Products" above isn't showing my RBK963B anymore either...

🤔 🙄

My bad - "RBKE..." - forgot about that "E".

On the manual update, the only thing I did do differently on the 3rd try for the RBR960 was set tracking prevention temporarily to "Basic" on the browser rather than "Balanced":

Not sure why that would matter, or if it was coincidence... 🤔

What browser are you using? I use MS Edge and my system took on first load. 

Edge Beta - could be that or could be that tracking setting I changed.

Ok  hopefully. 

NG doesn't auto push some minor updates which v.31 is so manual would be needed if not seen by the system.

Download speeds have been hampered since I updated.  And sometimes the Orbi app or Router browser page gets a slower result than I do directly with Speedtest from my computer or iPhone.

I just rebooted the Xfinity XB7 and Orbi and it seems better although I'm still get intermittent odd results with the speed test even telling me it "cannot detect bandwidth" from the browser:

And seconds later it will work:

So, there's something glitchy with this update I have never seen before.  It could just be an issue with the way Speedtest is working now from the Orbi since the PC/Phone results don't agree - I don't know.

My gut is telling me to roll back to .21 as it was working fine.  Maybe the issue that many others are seeing with Xinfity/Orbi is now manifesting for me or Speedtest is wonky in this build.

I also noticed some odd network drop outs last night.  But with Xfinity, I often don't know where the fault lies.

It works well enough that I can leave it and keep an eye on it for a day or so, but I'll likely roll back if this continues.

bullm00n don't believe the Orbi app or router speed test! You have no idea where the server they are using for testing - could be across the country for all you know. I have found it very flaky, and I documented it in detailed testing in this thread:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/Don-t-trust-the-Orbi-app-s-speed-test-with-2Gbps-service/t...

Just trust your Ookla speed test where you can control the server used. I have found that MUCH more consistent, and the proper speeds.

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donawalt wrote:

bullm00n don't believe the Orbi app or router speed test! You have no idea where the server they are using for testing - could be across the country for all you know. I have found it very flaky, and I documented it in detailed testing in this thread:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/Don-t-trust-the-Orbi-app-s-speed-test-with-2Gbps-service/t...

 

Just trust your Ookla speed test where you can control the server used. I have found that MUCH more consistent, and the proper speeds.

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That could well be true, but it's a new "feature" for me and I preferred it when it worked prior to updating. 😉  Not that that particular thing is a big deal, but it makes me wonder what else is dodgy if this got broken. ".21" has been OK for me, knock on wood, and I'm about to be in the "if it ain't broke..." What's .31 bring to the table that I need?  Seems skippable and it didn't even want to upgrade really - maybe that's telling. 😄

I need an update where the logs make sense, the device list makes sense - something compelling like that, if I'm trading out features.

A factory reset and setup from scratch maybe needed to check this.

Possible some odd issued between the RBR, Your ISP Modem(There being some known issues with X series modems) and the end point speed testing site. Would need to check Ooklas installable speed test app on a few test runs to see if this is noticed there as well. 

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bullm00n wrote:

Download speeds have been hampered since I updated.  And sometimes the Orbi app or Router browser page gets a slower result than I do directly with Speedtest from my computer or iPhone.

 

I just rebooted the Xfinity XB7 and Orbi and it seems better although I'm still get intermittent odd results with the speed test even telling me it "cannot detect bandwidth" from the browser:

 

And seconds later it will work:

 

So, there's something glitchy with this update I have never seen before.  It could just be an issue with the way Speedtest is working now from the Orbi since the PC/Phone results don't agree - I don't know.

 

My gut is telling me to roll back to .21 as it was working fine.  Maybe the issue that many others are seeing with Xinfity/Orbi is now manifesting for me or Speedtest is wonky in this build.

I also noticed some odd network drop outs last night.  But with Xfinity, I often don't know where the fault lies.

 

It works well enough that I can leave it and keep an eye on it for a day or so, but I'll likely roll back if this continues.

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