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Orbi 960 location services not working
Hello, my router is blocking location services. Example, can’t login to ChatGPT because I’m not in a supported region (I live in the USA). I try to use my Sonic app on my phone, my location is not sup...
I got it fixed! I had a BestBuy 2 year warranty, I took it in and they replaced the Orbi, and now it's working fine! All firmware updated, This is 100% a router defect!
(I realize that the discussion has wandered a bit off topic, but am fascinated by the issue of "How does a web site know where I am?")
Those "where am I?" web sites consistently report
- The IP address which my ISP (Spectrum) has currently assigned to me.
- A location that most likely is a Spectrum tower in a nearby city. (about 5 miles away. not 100 miles away!) which is strange because the Spectrum "Head End" that serves my neighborhood is less than 2 miles away.
- If I give permission for my browser to know my location, it then nails my exact street address. (well, one street over, but the house number is correct.) I have no idea how this works.
None of this would seem to have anything to do with the WiFi router. I can see one difference:
- When the computer is connected directly to the modem, it has the public IP address that has been assigned to the customer modem. A web browser would report the public IP address.
- When the computer is connected to a WiFi router, one would think that it would report the private IP address assigned by the router (??) except that the router will use Network Address Translation (NAT) to modify the source address to the public IP and create a port number that is mapped internally to the originating port number.
I simply cannot come up with an explanation for why a computer connected directly to the modem would work and the same computer connected to a customer WiFi router would not.
1. **IP Address Location**: Websites often use your IP address to estimate your location. This IP address is assigned by your Internet Service Provider (ISP), like Spectrum in your case. The location associated with an IP address is typically that of the ISP's data center or a central hub, which might not be exactly where you are. That's why the location might be a nearby city, not precisely where you live. The distance discrepancy you mentioned (5 miles vs. 2 miles) can be attributed to where Spectrum's IP addresses are registered.
2. **WiFi Router and NAT**: Regarding your point on WiFi routers and Network Address Translation (NAT), it's important to clarify that while your device has a private IP address within your local network, when communicating over the internet, the router translates this to a public IP address assigned by your ISP. This public IP is what websites see, regardless of whether you're connected directly to the modem or through a WiFi router. Thus, the website does not see your private IP address but the public IP provided by Spectrum.
3. **Browser-Based Geolocation**: The more accurate location (like the one street over from you) is determined through your browser's geolocation feature. When you give a website permission, it can access your device's built-in location services, which use a combination of GPS, nearby Wi-Fi networks, cell towers, and possibly other sensors to pinpoint your location much more accurately than just an IP address.
4. **Modem vs. WiFi Router**: As for the difference in connectivity through the modem and WiFi router, there shouldn't be a significant difference in how your location is detected by websites. In both cases, the external-facing IP address given by your ISP is what websites use for location estimation. The NAT process in the router does not affect the detection of this public IP address.
In summary, the general location is estimated based on your IP address assigned by the ISP, while more precise location detection involves your device's location services that combine various data sources when you permit your browser to access them. The use of a modem or WiFi router doesn't fundamentally change the way your location is estimated by websites.
2. **WiFi Router and NAT**: Regarding your point on WiFi routers and Network Address Translation (NAT), it's important to clarify that while your device has a private IP address within your local network, when communicating over the internet, the router translates this to a public IP address assigned by your ISP. This public IP is what websites see, regardless of whether you're connected directly to the modem or through a WiFi router. Thus, the website does not see your private IP address but the public IP provided by Spectrum.
3. **Browser-Based Geolocation**: The more accurate location (like the one street over from you) is determined through your browser's geolocation feature. When you give a website permission, it can access your device's built-in location services, which use a combination of GPS, nearby Wi-Fi networks, cell towers, and possibly other sensors to pinpoint your location much more accurately than just an IP address.
4. **Modem vs. WiFi Router**: As for the difference in connectivity through the modem and WiFi router, there shouldn't be a significant difference in how your location is detected by websites. In both cases, the external-facing IP address given by your ISP is what websites use for location estimation. The NAT process in the router does not affect the detection of this public IP address.
In summary, the general location is estimated based on your IP address assigned by the ISP, while more precise location detection involves your device's location services that combine various data sources when you permit your browser to access them. The use of a modem or WiFi router doesn't fundamentally change the way your location is estimated by websites.
Thanks for the explanation. Amazing what a Windows 11 PC that is wired to an Orbi router can accomplish. As far as I am aware, this HP computer has no GPS capability, no telephone carrier capability. It does have WiFi which I only use when too lazy to open a laptop to use Wireshark to monitor the WiFi network.
It makes really good sense that a cellular device with a GPS chip and provide precise location. This Windows PC???
And, this discussion only seems to solidify that a PC connected to some web site should appear to be in the same place whether connected to the modem or to a customer router.
- That is correct, it makes absolutely no sense that it works when I plug in directly to the modem versus the router. It should still have the same external IP address resulting in the same location; but we don’t know what method are using to try to determine the location. Once I try a different router, that should determine if it’s the router or the modem causing the issue. I read somewhere that having a double NAT (one on modem, one on router) could cause location services not to work properly. But I do not have a NAT on my modem.
This is why I contacted my ISP, and multiple services trying to resolve the issue. Everybody keeps pointing to the modem or the router. - The issue is definitely the router, swapping to my old router, everything then worked fine. This router definitely has an issue.