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RBK353 double fronthaul and backhaul bandwidth
RBR350, in AP mode + 2 satellites RBS350 Firmware version: V4.3.4.7_1.9.53 Hardware version RBR350 Hardware Type ORBI This is the same environment as discussed in AP mode no internet And ...
Bockeman wrote:
Ok, I accept, there may be only one radio for backhaul (if indeed that is the case). However, I think it might be helpful to other readers, and myself, if you could clarify "band" as in "dual band" and "tri band". In my mind these refer to the radio bands 2.4GHz, 5GHz and 6GHz and has nothing to do with the number of radios (each allocated to a channel with a given band) in the router and satellites.
Dual Band vs. Tri Band refers to the number of radios. Early mesh WiFi systems contained two radios. One using the 2.4G frequency band and one using the 5G frequency band. They used the same radio in the 5G band for both user communication and for communication between mesh units. There are two groups of frequencies in the 5G frequency band that are not restricted (open for use) can be combined to form an 80 Mbps wide signal. In North America, these are
- 5.170GHz to 5.250GHz, and
- 5.735GHz to 5.815GHz
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5_GHz_(802.11a/h/n/ac/ax)
By adding a third radio, mesh systems became able to use two parts of the 5G frequency spectrum, making a total of three "bands". When Netgear introduced a product that uses the 6GHz frequency spectrum, it was described as a "Quad Band" router: https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/RBRE960/RBRE960_TS.pdf
- One 2.4G band
- Two 5G bands
- One 6G band
When one RBR350 router talks to two RBS350 satellites, it uses one radio. When it broadcasts to one satellite, it cannot receive from either satellite and it cannot broadcast to the other satellite until the first communication is finished. Whereas the Ethernet cable is inherently "Full Duplex", allowing traffic in both directions at the same time, WiFi is inherently "One Talks at a Time. Everybody else waits."
Bockeman wrote:
But can I double the bandwidth by using two satellites in parallel? I propose having the RBR350 (router) connected to my ISP modem, but not so close that the WiFi of the ISP modem does not interfere with the Orbi WiFi.Is there anything to gain from this arrangement, or am I just deluding myself?
Alas, worse, not better. All Orbi systems use one 5G WiFi channel for communication between the router and satellites. WiFi is inherently a "one device at a time" medium. When the router broadcasts, the satellites must wait until it quits before one of them can broadcast (and the other satellite continue waiting). When either satellite broadcasts, the router must wait. The more satellites, the more waiting.
The 350 system uses the same 5G WiFi channel to communicate with user devices. (this is the primary distinction between dual band WiFi mesh systems and tri band.) For many users, their network usage is light enough that one single 5G channel provides a fine experience. The original Google Mesh was a dual band system and Google must have sold a gazillion of them. In this case, the more WiFi devices there are, the worse the performance of that NAS backup.
Ok, I accept, there may be only one radio for backhaul (if indeed that is the case). However, I think it might be helpful to other readers, and myself, if you could clarify "band" as in "dual band" and "tri band". In my mind these refer to the radio bands 2.4GHz, 5GHz and 6GHz and has nothing to do with the number of radios (each allocated to a channel with a given band) in the router and satellites.
My requirement is purely as an extension: replace a wired cable with Orbi WiFi. That means I'm not using any of the radios for regular WiFi connections with other devices. Its a shame I cannot turn off this regular WiFi and use the two radios (in the router) [if there are indeed two radios] for backhaul.
I ran some experiments. For the benefit of other readers, the arrangement shown above with a wired connection between two satellites does not have the desired effect, one of the satellite is seen as "Wired" and all the backhaul traffic goes via the other satellite. [Credit to Netgear for recognising this scenario and blocking potential pitfalls like packet collisions.] However, instead of a wired connection I connected via web managed switch (Netgear GS108Ev3) using the VLAN capabilities. Each orbi satellite is allocated to a separate VLAN (so they cannot see each other) but the other devices wired to the switch were on both these VLANs (they could see both satellites).
Speed tests (using 1GB file transfers between local devices, rather than speedtest.net which is dependent upon internet and ISP QoS) show some interesting results. It happens that the speed of each satellite is sufficiently distinct that I could tell which satellite was being used. Over a sequence of 16 1GB file transfers, some packets were routed via one satellite, and other packets via the other satellite. I think this is random (rather than picking the fastest).
Even more intersting was when packets were exchanged simultaneously between two devices attached to satellites and two devices attached to the router. Given only one radio, I would expect half the speed for each pair. But I actually got more than half. (Single pair exchanging packets: 543.429 Mbps, simultaneous: 373.543 Mbps). I'd be interested if this suggests more than one radio is being utilised.
Bockeman wrote:
Ok, I accept, there may be only one radio for backhaul (if indeed that is the case). However, I think it might be helpful to other readers, and myself, if you could clarify "band" as in "dual band" and "tri band". In my mind these refer to the radio bands 2.4GHz, 5GHz and 6GHz and has nothing to do with the number of radios (each allocated to a channel with a given band) in the router and satellites.
Dual Band vs. Tri Band refers to the number of radios. Early mesh WiFi systems contained two radios. One using the 2.4G frequency band and one using the 5G frequency band. They used the same radio in the 5G band for both user communication and for communication between mesh units. There are two groups of frequencies in the 5G frequency band that are not restricted (open for use) can be combined to form an 80 Mbps wide signal. In North America, these are
- 5.170GHz to 5.250GHz, and
- 5.735GHz to 5.815GHz
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5_GHz_(802.11a/h/n/ac/ax)
By adding a third radio, mesh systems became able to use two parts of the 5G frequency spectrum, making a total of three "bands". When Netgear introduced a product that uses the 6GHz frequency spectrum, it was described as a "Quad Band" router: https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/RBRE960/RBRE960_TS.pdf
- One 2.4G band
- Two 5G bands
- One 6G band
When one RBR350 router talks to two RBS350 satellites, it uses one radio. When it broadcasts to one satellite, it cannot receive from either satellite and it cannot broadcast to the other satellite until the first communication is finished. Whereas the Ethernet cable is inherently "Full Duplex", allowing traffic in both directions at the same time, WiFi is inherently "One Talks at a Time. Everybody else waits."
From the spec sheet for the 350 series: https://www.netgear.com/images/datasheet/orbi/RBK352.pdf
Technical Specifications
• Orbi AX1800 Router and AX1800 Satellite
(600 + 1200Mbps)†
• Simultaneous Dual-band WiFi
- Radio 1: IEEE®
802.11b/g/n/ax 2.4GHz—
1024-QAM support
- Radio 2: IEEE®
802.11a/n/ac/ax 5GHz—
1024-QAM supportFor 7 and 8 series:
Technical Specifications
• Orbi AX6000 Router and AX6000 Satellite
(2400 + 2400 + 1200Mbps)†
• Simultaneous Tri-band WiFi
- Radio 1: IEEE®
802.11b/g/n/ax
2.4GHz—1024-QAM support
- Radio 2: IEEE®
802.11a/n/ac/ax
5GHz—1024-QAM support
- Radio 3: IEEE®
802.11a/n/ac/ax
5GHz—1024-QAM support
