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RBS850 wired satellite not showing up on Attached Devices - orbilogin only works near router
I have a Cisco router (no WiFi) and I installed the RBR850 as an AP. In the initial setup downstairs (near the RBR) I first configured two satellites wireless (I read the advice on this page). Then I...
My sense is that the connection scheme is the root cause of both problems:
- Wired satellite not appearing in Attached Devices, and
- WiFi satellite connecting to the router at 2.4G rather than the wired satellite at 5G.
You are "getting away with this connection in Access Point (AP) mode" because the Level 2 Ethernet LAN allows devices to connect to each other through the Cisco switch by using ARP to learn the actual MAC addresses.
Netgear's design for the Orbi mesh system is that
- The router is connected (through the WAN port) to the greater world. (usually the Internet, but in many cases an existing network such as yours.
- Everything else (satellites and user devices) are connected to the LAN side of the Orbi router, either through 'wired' connections or through WiFi connections. In router mode, this LAN is hidden from the greater world through Network Address Translation (NAT). No device on the LAN side is visible to the outside network through its internal IP address. The only way to connect from the outside to a device on the LAN is to forward a port through the router to a specific internal IP address.
- I believe (and this is just my opinion), that this design has led to a programming decision that satellites can be found only on the LAN side of the routrer. They cannot be found on the WAN side.
So, what happens when the Orbi is put into AP mode?
- It no longer creates a LAN subnet or answers DHCP requests. User devices get their IP information (number, subnet mask, gateway, DNS) from the primary network - in this case the Cisco router. This is similar to what the Apple access points do.
- The Orbi router still broadcasts the hidden WiFi SSID looking for satellites. (I believe) that initially both satellites connect via WiFi and learn the important information about WiFi SSIDs. But shortly after that, the 'wired' satellite discovers the wired connection and quits using the WiFi link. However, this is a Level 2 Ethernet network. Devices quickly learn the hardware MAC address of other devices on the LAN, including the Cisco gateway. They have no need to send data packets through the Orbi router.
- That 'wired' satellite no longer talks to the Orbi router. (Why should it? By connecting directly to the Cisco router, it can reach every device on the LAN and also the Internet.) Thus, the router has only one satellite connected - the one still using WiFi.
- Why doesn't the WiFi router "Daisy Chain" off the wired satellite? Because the wired satellite no longer 'sees' the Orbi router.
All these issues would disappear if the Orbi satellite was connected to the LAN side of the Orbi router. But there is a huge problem: only one Ethernet cable connects the Cisco location and the Orbi router location. The cable can be used for (a) the Cisco-Orbi connection or (b) the Orbi router - Orbi satellite connection, but not both. There is a solution, which involves placing two 'managed' switches on the cable and creating one VLAN to carry the Cisco-Orbi traffic and another VLAN to carry the Orbi router-Orbi satellite traffic. (there was a long discussion on the forum from a user who did this and it worked great, but I have lost the URL to that discussion and cannot find it right now.)
Why do Apple AirPorts work but the Orbi not? Because the AirPorts are not part of a "mesh" network. They are not satellites. They are WiFi access points.
Can I prove any of this? Of course not.
Hi CrimpOn, thank you for your help.
The wired satellite isn't directly (fysical) connected to the RBR850. The wired satellite is connected to a wall output in the attic that is connected to the Cisco router. The wall output and cable are in good condition (tested).
I do need the Cisco router (location: cellar) hence my house has 14 wired ethernet connections.
The RBR850 is placed in the living room. Both RBS850 (satellites) are located on the second floor. The first floor (2 bedrooms, a bathroom and a storage room) do not have a satellite. The distance between living room and second floor isn't that far away.
The wired RBS850 is reachable on its IP-address and there are to appliances connected to the ethernet ports which work perfectly. But the wired RBS850 isn't visible in Attached Devices or the Orbi app...
The connection of the wireless RBS850 should be greatly advanced if the wired RBS850 would be seen since the distance between wired RBS850 and wireless RBS850 isn't far (same room: attic).
I need the wireless RBS850 for my amplifier (Hegel) which has no WiFi and needs an ethernet connection. The RBS850 provides of 4 ethernet ports (1 for the amplifier and 1 for the Mac mini as a streamer). My attic has 4 fysical ethernet connections (wall outlet) but sadly on the "wrong" / other side and I don't like a cable running through the room. An extra wireless AirPort wireless connected to a wired AirPort did the trick. Since the AirPorts are becoming of age I thought about replacing them by an Orbi setup, but as far as I am now it isn't a happy solution.
My sense is that the connection scheme is the root cause of both problems:
- Wired satellite not appearing in Attached Devices, and
- WiFi satellite connecting to the router at 2.4G rather than the wired satellite at 5G.
You are "getting away with this connection in Access Point (AP) mode" because the Level 2 Ethernet LAN allows devices to connect to each other through the Cisco switch by using ARP to learn the actual MAC addresses.
Netgear's design for the Orbi mesh system is that
- The router is connected (through the WAN port) to the greater world. (usually the Internet, but in many cases an existing network such as yours.
- Everything else (satellites and user devices) are connected to the LAN side of the Orbi router, either through 'wired' connections or through WiFi connections. In router mode, this LAN is hidden from the greater world through Network Address Translation (NAT). No device on the LAN side is visible to the outside network through its internal IP address. The only way to connect from the outside to a device on the LAN is to forward a port through the router to a specific internal IP address.
- I believe (and this is just my opinion), that this design has led to a programming decision that satellites can be found only on the LAN side of the routrer. They cannot be found on the WAN side.
So, what happens when the Orbi is put into AP mode?
- It no longer creates a LAN subnet or answers DHCP requests. User devices get their IP information (number, subnet mask, gateway, DNS) from the primary network - in this case the Cisco router. This is similar to what the Apple access points do.
- The Orbi router still broadcasts the hidden WiFi SSID looking for satellites. (I believe) that initially both satellites connect via WiFi and learn the important information about WiFi SSIDs. But shortly after that, the 'wired' satellite discovers the wired connection and quits using the WiFi link. However, this is a Level 2 Ethernet network. Devices quickly learn the hardware MAC address of other devices on the LAN, including the Cisco gateway. They have no need to send data packets through the Orbi router.
- That 'wired' satellite no longer talks to the Orbi router. (Why should it? By connecting directly to the Cisco router, it can reach every device on the LAN and also the Internet.) Thus, the router has only one satellite connected - the one still using WiFi.
- Why doesn't the WiFi router "Daisy Chain" off the wired satellite? Because the wired satellite no longer 'sees' the Orbi router.
All these issues would disappear if the Orbi satellite was connected to the LAN side of the Orbi router. But there is a huge problem: only one Ethernet cable connects the Cisco location and the Orbi router location. The cable can be used for (a) the Cisco-Orbi connection or (b) the Orbi router - Orbi satellite connection, but not both. There is a solution, which involves placing two 'managed' switches on the cable and creating one VLAN to carry the Cisco-Orbi traffic and another VLAN to carry the Orbi router-Orbi satellite traffic. (there was a long discussion on the forum from a user who did this and it worked great, but I have lost the URL to that discussion and cannot find it right now.)
Why do Apple AirPorts work but the Orbi not? Because the AirPorts are not part of a "mesh" network. They are not satellites. They are WiFi access points.
Can I prove any of this? Of course not.
Thanks a lot CrimpOn for this excellent and very clear explanation! I learned a lot of it and it leads me to the conclusion that although Netgear Orbi is a great product it isn't the best solution for my specific situation. So I have to return them since I should be looking for new WiFi access points to replace my Apple Airports. One AirPort creates a wireless network but is in bridge mode (so the Cisco stays in control of the routing) and the other AirPorts extend the wireless network.
This evening I detached the wired RBS satellite to test if it should reappear after cutting it from power. After booting the satellite stays solid magenta (purple) meaning "Your Orbi satellite has no backhaul connection to your Orbi router or it has no IP address". The cable is again tested and solid.
AP mode seems to be involved in a lot of posts on the forum. I have no clue what product would be the best fit for your needs.
Good Luck.