NETGEAR is aware of a growing number of phone and online scams. To learn how to stay safe click here.
Forum Discussion
Wired backhaul though switch
I added a wired backhaul to my Orbi RBS850 and it will not show up as an attached device to the RBR850 but is showing connected with an IP address on my UDM Pro.
My setup is:
Verizon Fios -> UDM Pro -> Netgear MS510TX Switch -> RBR850 in a 2.5 gig port & RBS850 in a 1 gig port connected to the netgear switch
Orbi is set up in AP mode and both are connected directly to the switch. I factory reset each and they showed connected when I had the backhaul connect to the RBR850 but not if I have the satellite connect directly to the switch which is my current setup. Does anyone know how to fix?
6 Replies
Stratguru wrote:I added a wired backhaul to my Orbi RBS850 and it will not show up as an attached device to the RBR850 but is showing connected with an IP address on my UDM Pro.
My setup is:
Verizon Fios -> UDM Pro -> Netgear MS510TX Switch -> RBR850 in a 2.5 gig port & RBS850 in a 1 gig port connected to the netgear switch
Orbi is set up in AP mode and both are connected directly to the switch. I factory reset each and they showed connected when I had the backhaul connect to the RBR850 but not if I have the satellite connect directly to the switch which is my current setup. Does anyone know how to fix?
Do the SATs get an IP address you can connect to? I found the MACs on mine and set up DHCP to give them specific addresses: 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3 - that makes them a little easier to troubleshoot.
What is Ethernet backhaul and how do I set it up on my Orbi WiFi System? - NETGEAR Support
If you have done that and they are not working, I'd set them up Wireless first and make sure that works, then add one to the switch at a time to see if they come back up. Also, give them a dedicated IP address from your DHCP router if you can. I have not found the factory reset on the SATs to do anything interesting - mine never seem to reset, or if they do I cannot tell.
No matter what 'mode' is set on an Orbi router, it expects wired satellites to be connected to one of the router LAN ports. This is programmed into the guts of the firmware and customers have no way to alter it.
The expected setup would be:
- Verizon Fios
- UDM Pro
- RBR850 WAN Port - in router or AP mode
- Netgear MS510TX switch
- RBS850 and other devices connected to the switch
There may be incompatible goals:
- Desire to have 2.5G connections when the RBR850 does not have any 2.5G LAN ports
- Desire to have the Orbi system accurately report which units devices are connected to
- Equipment being located in various rooms where connecting the switch 'behind' the router is inconvenient. (VLAN can help with this if another switch is added.)
(Sorry, I was in a rush when responding above....)
Access Point mode is a complicated situation because all of the devices are in one LAN IP subnet. When communicating with other devices, the first thing that happens is the destination IP address is compared with the IP subnet. If the destination is in the same IP subnet as the host, the host does an Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) broadcast query, "who has this IP?" Some device answers saying, "IP xx.xx.xx.xx belongs to MAC address xxxx"
If the destination address is not in the same IP subnet, the host sends the packet to the Gateway IP address (using the same mechanism).
Every device (router, satellites, that Ubiquiti Dream Machine (UDM Pro) contains Ethernet switch modules (the Netgear MS510TX is be definition an Ethernet switch). These modules remember every hardware MAC address that can be reached through each port on the switch, even if the data packet has to travel through several switches to reach the final destination.
For example, the UDM may remember, "I saw a packet from MAC address A that came into me on my Port 3. So, if I want to communicate with A, then I transmit out Port 3." The switch has no idea where that device is, only that is "out Port 3".
If Port 3 is connected to the MS510TX port 7, the MS510TX may remember, "MAC Address A can be found out my port 2".
This process continues until eventually that packet is delivered to MAC A. Each Ethernet switch has a table of how many MAC addresses it can remember. The MS510TX, for example, holds up to 16,000 MAC addresses.
When the Orbi router is in AP mode, all these ARP broadcasts and the responses flow through it. A device connected to the router can then be reached from anywhere on the LAN. Likewise, devices connected to the router can reach anywhere on the LAN.
The problem is that the router "knows" that satellites can be found only through the router LAN ports. If satellites are connected to the router LAN ports, then the LAN Ethernet switch says, "Sure. That satellite MAC is connected to Port (whatever). Out you go. Have a nice day." The packet may go through dozens of switches, but eventually it will get to the satellite.
If satellites are NOT connected to the router LAN Ethernet switch, it says, "you must be kidding. I have asked over and over (ARP), "who has IP xx.xx.xx.xx? and nobody responds!" (They cannot respond because they are not connected to the LAN port.)
Could Netgear have written the firmware to look for satellites on the WAN port? Sure they could. But they didn't.
So, everything can connect, but the router cannot find the satellites and report anything about what is connected to them. The Attached Devices display and the Orbi 'app' are useless.
The way to "solve this" is to connect the satellites to the router LAN ports.
- By physically moving the Ethernet cable from the switch to the Orbi LAN port, or
- If the switch and router are in different locations, by creating a VLAN which can be used to get the traffic where it needs to go.
Thank you for all the responses within the community. A few details to answer:
-I have given each a set IP address in the UDM Pro with same result and tired that 1st
-I have the sat going through the switch due to my network placement of the incoming internet and where each AP (RBR & RBS) is placed
-The RBR has a 2.5 gig WAN port and the RBS does not
It sounds like the answer is because the RBR only has the 2.5 gig WAN port connected to the network switch and does not recognize the RBS even thought I see a blue light, devices are connected to it, and it shows a strong connection when I log into the RBS via IP address. Is there a way for the RBR to recognize the satellite without changing my current config due to placement?
Stratguru wrote:
Is there a way for the RBR to recognize the satellite without changing my current config due to placement?
Yes, the MS510TX supports VLANs. The port connecting the MS510TX to the satellite can be put in a VLAN with another port connecting the MS510TX to one of the Orbi router LAN ports.
If the Orbi router is not physically located next to the switch, then there are two solutions:
- Have a second Ethernet cable from the switch location to the Orbi router, or
- Put another VLAN switch next to the router so that the single Ethernet cable can carry two separate VLANs.
(One for the WAN port and one for the LAN port.)
Any progress on this?
Stratguru wrote:
Thank you for all the responses within the community. A few details to answer:
-I have given each a set IP address in the UDM Pro with same result and tired that 1st
-I have the sat going through the switch due to my network placement of the incoming internet and where each AP (RBR & RBS) is placed
-The RBR has a 2.5 gig WAN port and the RBS does not
It sounds like the answer is because the RBR only has the 2.5 gig WAN port connected to the network switch and does not recognize the RBS even thought I see a blue light, devices are connected to it, and it shows a strong connection when I log into the RBS via IP address. Is there a way for the RBR to recognize the satellite without changing my current config due to placement?
