Possible Fix for iPhone Dropping WiFi

donawalt, with my weak 5G cell signal both inside and outside the house, I’ve figured out I have to be a couple rooms away from the router (closer to the outside weak cell signal) to get the avalanche of drops/flips I documented last week. I’ve been spending more time in my home office (where the 971 is located) these last 3-days so I haven’t noticed it happening once. This observation, coupled with your info that your 5G cell “flips” happen when your moving between mesh nodes. I think the mesh stops our WiFi signals going from Node to Node allowing 5G cell signal to try and connect to cell phone (I think this theory is proven in that we’ve noticed our iPhones still show WiFi connection to Orbi even with the 5G Cell icon showing on our screens!). Or it might be that the Orbi’s cell strength threshold settings in the Orbi Routers need re-adjusting so the router doesn’t drop the WiFi connection (thinking 5G cell signal is strong so we must be moving toward cellular and away from WiFi, causing both mesh nodes to drop our WiFi connection instead of passing it off to the other node). I’ll work on this WiFi Stabilization issue if we ever close my 2-month old “slow upload speed” Case (which I think really should now be called “incorrect Orbi Internal speed test results”!!)

I did send NG more debug files they requested last Friday, so hopefully sometime this week I will get an update and estimate on fix from NG.

I’m very familiar with that Apple 6E setting (I’m not bragging!), dealing with the 3-bands the 971 has access too, and the issues I’ve had onboarding IoT’s. I always turn off 6E which eliminates 6Ghz WiFi band connections to the router, but that still leaves the 5Ghz band that causes issues sometimes because of the way my IoT’s always onboard to the satellites 2.4 IoT SSID (they won’t connect to the router which is the closest WiFi point for most of my IoT’s.).

So I let them connect with a weak IoT WiFi signal to satellite, then I go into the IoT device settings and change the WiFi to the main router SSID, and it will then connect with a strong WiFi signal to the 971. Unfortunately, if I have to go back into that IoT device again that’s connected to the main SSID, even with 6E turned off, my iPhone connects at 5Ghz band. Some of my older Arlo devices use the Arlo App on my iPhone to communicate with the IoT device to make those config changes. Once I attach the IoT device to the main SSID, since my iPhone connects to 5Mhz band, the App and IoT device won’t communicate!!

I have to reset IoT device, re-onboard to satellite IoT SSID, make the Iot device config change I wanted to make while it was connected to main SSID, then change WIFI on the IoT device back to main router SSID so I have strong WiFi strength with the IoT device. It’s a pain.

Apparently your router used to have a web gui option so you could at least reduce 5GHz band power and move iPhone further away from the router hoping it would drop back to 2.4GHz Connection. Apparently some of the smarter NG Community members posted the 860 and 971 routers have very similar user guides, and apparently since there were some issues with the power option config on your router model, they removed all WIFI power configs from the 860, and apparently didn’t add same capability at 971 launch (or removed it early on with a firmware update), but both my user manual, and your’s has not been updated to remove the steps to make WiFi power config changes.

I know NG thinks their 2.4 IoT SSID solves all IoT on-boarding issues, but it hasn’t for me! They need to add an option in our Orbi’s to turn off both 5 and 6Mhz band’s (what happens if Apple removes “6E off” capability???) Even the Amazon eero routers have an option to temporarily disable 5Mhz/6Mhz (if that band is available in that model eero) for 5 (maybe 10?) mins so your cell phone can only connect to the eero’s 2.4Ghz band, On-boarding issues solved!!

I’ll post again when I hear from NG. Thanks for passing along the 6E “off” option on our iPhone 15 Pro Max models. I think I accidentally just stumbled across it when I had all my initial IoT on-boarding issues.

kjx, thanks for your input. I too have already noticed 6Ghz band is very “wall intolerant”!

I saw in your earlier posts that you (like me had used Ethernet backhaul initially.) I do have 2 satellites in 2000 Sq ft house, but I think NG needs to work on mesh mode transitions and stability changes. Why won’t any of my IoT’s in the same room as the 971 on-board with a satellite on the other end of the house??? This results in very weak IoT connections with most all of my IoTs that are located in the Office (where 971 is) or all three rooms that share a doorway and a wall with the home office?? I think there’s mesh node handoff issues going on here.

On the flips from WiFi to 5G cellular, see my reply below to donawalt, it will give you insight in what we’ve observed with our iPhone 15 Pro Max 5G cell and Orbi WIFi flips.

I’ll have to check IPs next time this stability/flip issue happens, but what donawalt and I both observed is that in our iPhone settings, even with 5G Cell and strength icons displayed on our phone screens after the flip, iPhone WiFi settings show we are still connected to the Orbi Main SSID!! Your “airplane” mode work around is like “slapping the Orbi in the face” to get it to straighten up!!

If the iPhone was truly in 5G cell mode, the WiFi Setting would show “not connected”. With it still showing the main SSID but not actually being connected to it , I think the mesh node handoff started, and never finished, thus both nodes dropped WiFi, which put iPhone into Cellular mode.

You use Airplane mode to get the Orbi to snap out of the funk, I change my iPhone settings, and connect to the 2.4 IoT SSID which it promptly does (that’s my router “slap in the face”). Then I can select the main SSID and it reconnects until the next “flip/drop”.

I’m not going to WiFi back haul, I spent too much time and money replacing my 25 year old Cat 5e, 6, 6a (I’m old, or is it 5a and 6E??) with Cat 7, 8, and OM4 MM fiber to connect my NG 10Gb home network switches.

I’ll move my MasterBedroom 970 satellite around, even though it’s wired backhaul, there might be some WiFi interference going on with the office RBE971.

If we all work at this with NG, they’ll get the firmware fine-tuned.

Thanks for your suggestions. I’ll post again after a try relocating the satellite. I’ll watch for IP info when I flip again, but donawalt and I thing it’s a mesh handoff/stability issue.

You’ve added another data point to our investigation with you change from wired backhaul to wireless backhaul that corrected most of your stability issue with a satellite. I wonder if the RBE 971 can process “hand off” wireless mesh node WiFi signals easier than wired mesh node handoffs because of software mismatches, wired vs wireless?

kjx, I’m old and your question about the weird IP messed with my mind. It finally dawned on me, during the flips, when I went to look at details on the main SSID that was still shown as “connected” in iPhone Settings while 5G and cell strength was being displayed, there was no WIFI IP connection info populated, it was all blank.

I’m not in my web gui, but my ATT 5G fiber ONT/Modem/router/Gateway (I’m using Pass-Through to the 971) has a 168 or 169 IP that is shown in the Gateway gui as the “Router (ATT Gateway router) IP” if I recall correctly.

Would that make sense? Could some IP address from your ISP somehow get involved in your iPhone settings if your Orbi Router IP wasn’t available when the cellular provider’s 5G service tried to connect when the Orbi Mesh hand-off went south??

And when the flips first started happening to me 2-months or so ago,(I just installed my new Orbi’s the last week of May), I mistakenly assumed since the SSID was shown in iPhone settings as my WIFI connection, that when the router woke up from its nap, it would reconnect. Wrong! I got within 4’ of the 971, it never connected on its on. I had to do your trick.

I like the way your solution was short and sweet, “do this . . .” and everything is right with world (again!). Not!

Before I started my “back-up” routine, I might be typing a 3-page reply here on the NG Community. Remember, I would have been logged into the Community from the internet connection from my Router. I noticed the 5G Cell icon pop-up several times as I typed my reply. My NG Community reply window was still open on my iPhone and I was just typing away!

Finally finished typing, let me just hit “Post”. What??? Error (of some kind)?? Why did that happen? Oh well, I’ll just refresh my browser and repost. What??? It wiped all my reply text clean!!

So I started the reply I opened with my browser on the 971. When it flipped to 5G cell server, it had no idea what I was trying to do!! Just like trying to reply to an email from your Server, but if the device looses the connection to the server and you just keep “replying”, the network doesn’t know what you’re replying too!

After this WiFi-drop 5G-Cell-flip happened during another post and it wiped the post clean, now, when I finish and before I Post, I Select-All, and Copy to the clipboard. If it wipes me because I didn’t see the “flip”, I just Paste, then Post!

Keep that in mind if you get into drop/flip cycle and your not moving around (Those several times it happened to me, I hadn’t moved from the chair once, and when I started the Post, I had full WiFi strength).

That’s another reason I think the Orbi mesh hand-off doesn’t complete. The satellite says, here it comes, but the Router’s on a coffee break!!

Just FYI, any 169 IP addressing is APIPA and means the devices isn't able to get a normal IPv4 IP address from the servicing DHCP server/router:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link-local_address

My 6E iPhone started “flipping” numerous times this afternoon again after not doing it for almost a week, but I think Community member ajx below in this thread gave us some good insight into what’s possibly causing this “6E” issue.

He removed his RJ45 wired connection on 1 satellite and went with the RBE wireless backhaul. I don’t know if you have wired or wireless (I use wired, and I’m not switching to wireless with my two satellites!), but the other thing ajx did, he repositioned his satellite inside the room, which apparently reduced band interference between that satellite, and the 971 router.

I’m going to try moving the satellite I think that’s causing my “flipping” issue, but I’ll have to reroute a Cat 7 cable, so I didn’t get to it today.

But I do think ajx (I hope I’m not using the wrong name, but once you start typing a post, you can’t scroll through the thread to recheck the Community member’s “name”, and I already forgot it after I checked it before starting my Reply!).

Since he went to wireless backhaul, and the drop/flips cleared-up (or reduced?) it might be an internal Orbi mesh node-to-node hand off issue that causes our 6E instability to drop devices, and flips into 5G cellular. Maybe the Orbi hard/soft ware can more easily accomplish a wireless backhaul and mesh node transfer easier than a wired backhaul and mesh node transfer, so it drops the WiFi connection during a “wired backhaul” node transfer.

Then in my case, (is your 6E device going to a cellular connection?) cellular 5G jumps in, as it should if WiFi is not available!

I’ve been blaming this for a few months on mesh instability, but I think it might be more of an Orbi device location, and WiFi band strength issue.

It appears my mesh “instability” and flips to cellular 5G occur when I’m stationary in a specific area of the house (possibly an area that has a strong WiFi signal from more than 1 mesh node. After re-evaluating my Orbi deployment locations, I think two (or maybe even all three Orbi devices “thinks” one of the other mesh devices has a stronger WiFi connection to my 6E device, so it drops it’s WiFi connection to my 6E iPhone. If the 2nd mesh nodes “thinks” the same thing, so it decides it shouldn’t offer a WiFi connection to my 6E device, and I flip into 5G cellular.

I’m going to re-orient one of my satellites so I’m not caught in an area where 2 (or more!) mesh nodes think the other node has me, and I end up not connected to any node!

This would be easier to validate/correct if the Orbi 971/970 (and 860 Orbi version also) had the ability to adjust WiFi band power. This was originally a config option in the 860 GUI, and it was in a beta version of the 971 (as I understand from Community member Furrye38), but NG had some kind of issue(s) with band power option on the 860, so they removed the capability with an 860 firmware update, and then did not include it in the 971’s when released (even though the 860/971 Orbi Operator Manuals still have not been updated to remove band power config GUI options!

I’m going to see if I can re-locate the mesh nodes within my home so there won’t be spots where the mesh nodes don’t know who should connect to the device. On the 971 mesh series, the router and satellites each have 12 antennae, so this might not be possible without reducing 5Ghz WiFi band power, or adding a large addition on to my home!!

Since 6GHz band is still being used for non-WIFI purposes by other agency/users, the FCC will not allow any power adjustments on 6GHz at this time.

If any Community member’s are familiar with the NG MR6550 Mobile Router that uses a cellular SIM Card for internet connection, it includes all 3 WiFi bands. But, the FCC apparently prohibits the “mobile” (I.e. vehicular) use of 6Ghz band on that MR6550 for fear of interfering with the other users that have not yet moved off this frequency. NG accomplishes this restriction by only activating the 6Ghz band on the MR6550 when the internal battery is removed, and the unit is plugged into a power outlet (vehicular use could be accomplished with an inverter, or other work around).

This specific MR6550 configuration using 6Ghz band would work great at home where the unit would provide home internet with a cellular data plan, and could be plugged into power full-time the with internal battery permanently removed, which would then activate the 6Ghz WiFi band.

I said all that to say, currently NG can’t allow us to make power changes that might help our WiFi 6E device stability if my theory is correct (maybe not!) about location and WiFi mesh node hand-off confusion.

I’ll update Community after I try moving my nodes around and see if that corrects mesh node hand-off drops, and eliminates 5G cellular service flips.

donawalt, since I relocated what I suspected was the offending satellite from the living room into a bedroom (actually I just “added a wall” between the “offender” and the other two Orbi mesh nodes) I haven’t flipped to 5G cell once in the last 3-days since I made that change.

Also, my 6Ghz WiFi band symmetrical speeds from 971 to my 6E iPhone increased from 1200-ish Mb up to 1400-ish Mb.

At the same time I made the satellite physical rearrangement, I turned off IPV6 in the RBE 971 as I have no equipment actively using that version, (that I know off) and others on the Community have advised it might help with a few IoT on-boarding issues I’ve had. I haven’t tried to on-board any IoT’s since I turned off IPV6, but I wouldn’t think that change would increase my iPhone WiFi speeds, I think it was related to WiFi interference from the one satellite.

Might be good to try swapping the offending RBS with the other RBS to see if the problem follows with the offending RBS or remains at the remote location. 

Roc1