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Forum Discussion
Possible Fix for iPhone Dropping WiFi
I have an RBE973S system. think I have identified the reason my iPhone keeps dropping WiFi, and I wanted to share so others can see if it solves their issues. On your iPhone, go to Settings>Cellula...
0tis , here’s the detailed explanation that donawalt previously prepared and posted on one of these WiFi 7 threads. After dealing with all the same issues that are still being posted, I finally listened (after 7-months!) to the Community experts and disconnected one of my 3 Orbi 970 mesh nodes (I’m now using two nodes in a 2200 sq ft home).
I’m not saying Netgear didn’t have a few firmware issues (the last two NA regional updates) seem to have corrected the issues related to node firmware, but the biggest majority of equipment issues have been addressed (for NA region) by Netgear.
But even after these new NG firmware updates, “new” Community members are posting about the same “connection dropping, random rebooting, WiFi flipping to cellular service, we all experienced before we “optimized” our node placement as recommended by donawalt in his preceding post. This leads me to believe issues currently being posted are related to WiFi congestion because of too many nodes, or improper node placement.
I personally didnt do a “formal” optimization, I merely unplugged one of my mesh nodes just to see if my issues resolved. They did! So it’s not hard to determine if a network optimization would improve your WiFi performance. If disconnecting one node reduces some (but not all) of the congestion causing the issues, then it would be wise to go thru the the node-location optimization process and physically relocate all (remaining) nodes to get the best performance and fastest speeds from your WiFi 7 network.
WiFi 7 is a much more advanced technology then any version we’ve all used since our first WiFi router. We’ve all gotten use to adding more WiFi equipment to “help” our network speeds. We need to rethink this with WiFi 7. “More” is no longer better, in fact, reading all these same issues over and over again in this Community, it’s clear that with WiFi 7 technology, “less” will give the best coverage and fastest speeds, the very reason for our upgrading to WiFi 7.
Here’s donawalt previous posting that explains why “more” WiFi 7 can cause “more” issues:
I thought this was a good summary:
If mesh network nodes are placed too close together, several issues can arise, negatively impacting the network's performance and reliability:
1. Interference
- Co-channel interference: Nodes operating on the same frequency band may interfere with each other. This reduces signal quality and throughput as the network tries to manage collisions and retransmissions.
- Adjacent-channel interference: If nodes use overlapping frequency channels, their signals may bleed into one another, further degrading performance.
2. Redundant Pathways
- Overlapping coverage can create too many redundant paths, causing inefficiency in the routing protocols. The network may expend extra resources managing these routes, increasing latency.
3. Signal Saturation
- Strong signals from closely spaced nodes can overwhelm receivers, causing distortion and making it harder for devices to differentiate between signals. This effect is sometimes referred to as the "near-far problem."
4. Wasted Resources
- Excessively close nodes result in underutilized capacity. The network does not efficiently use its potential coverage, wasting power and hardware resources.
5. Increased Network Overhead
- Frequent communication between closely spaced nodes can increase network overhead, as routing protocols spend more time recalculating routes and managing congestion.
6. Load Balancing Issues
- If nodes are too close, some nodes may handle a disproportionate amount of traffic, leading to uneven load distribution and bottlenecks.
To mitigate these problems:
- Optimal Placement: Position nodes with sufficient spacing to reduce overlap but still maintain robust coverage.
- Channel Planning: Use different frequency channels for adjacent nodes to minimize interference.
- Power Adjustment: Configure transmission power levels to avoid excessive signal strength.
- Routing Optimization: Implement protocols that prioritize efficiency and minimize redundant connections.
- Use Antenna Directionality: Employ directional antennas to control coverage areas and reduce overlap.
I’m not saying Netgear didn’t have a few firmware issues (the last two NA regional updates) seem to have corrected the issues related to node firmware, but the biggest majority of equipment issues have been addressed (for NA region) by Netgear.
But even after these new NG firmware updates, “new” Community members are posting about the same “connection dropping, random rebooting, WiFi flipping to cellular service, we all experienced before we “optimized” our node placement as recommended by donawalt in his preceding post. This leads me to believe issues currently being posted are related to WiFi congestion because of too many nodes, or improper node placement.
I personally didnt do a “formal” optimization, I merely unplugged one of my mesh nodes just to see if my issues resolved. They did! So it’s not hard to determine if a network optimization would improve your WiFi performance. If disconnecting one node reduces some (but not all) of the congestion causing the issues, then it would be wise to go thru the the node-location optimization process and physically relocate all (remaining) nodes to get the best performance and fastest speeds from your WiFi 7 network.
WiFi 7 is a much more advanced technology then any version we’ve all used since our first WiFi router. We’ve all gotten use to adding more WiFi equipment to “help” our network speeds. We need to rethink this with WiFi 7. “More” is no longer better, in fact, reading all these same issues over and over again in this Community, it’s clear that with WiFi 7 technology, “less” will give the best coverage and fastest speeds, the very reason for our upgrading to WiFi 7.
Here’s donawalt previous posting that explains why “more” WiFi 7 can cause “more” issues:
I thought this was a good summary:
If mesh network nodes are placed too close together, several issues can arise, negatively impacting the network's performance and reliability:
1. Interference
- Co-channel interference: Nodes operating on the same frequency band may interfere with each other. This reduces signal quality and throughput as the network tries to manage collisions and retransmissions.
- Adjacent-channel interference: If nodes use overlapping frequency channels, their signals may bleed into one another, further degrading performance.
2. Redundant Pathways
- Overlapping coverage can create too many redundant paths, causing inefficiency in the routing protocols. The network may expend extra resources managing these routes, increasing latency.
3. Signal Saturation
- Strong signals from closely spaced nodes can overwhelm receivers, causing distortion and making it harder for devices to differentiate between signals. This effect is sometimes referred to as the "near-far problem."
4. Wasted Resources
- Excessively close nodes result in underutilized capacity. The network does not efficiently use its potential coverage, wasting power and hardware resources.
5. Increased Network Overhead
- Frequent communication between closely spaced nodes can increase network overhead, as routing protocols spend more time recalculating routes and managing congestion.
6. Load Balancing Issues
- If nodes are too close, some nodes may handle a disproportionate amount of traffic, leading to uneven load distribution and bottlenecks.
To mitigate these problems:
- Optimal Placement: Position nodes with sufficient spacing to reduce overlap but still maintain robust coverage.
- Channel Planning: Use different frequency channels for adjacent nodes to minimize interference.
- Power Adjustment: Configure transmission power levels to avoid excessive signal strength.
- Routing Optimization: Implement protocols that prioritize efficiency and minimize redundant connections.
- Use Antenna Directionality: Employ directional antennas to control coverage areas and reduce overlap.
Also be sure to disable WiFi private IP address as well or set a fixed address there. I prefer to disable that feature:
Also please try a factory reset and setup from scratch if problem continue to been seen after 3 days of use.
- Thanks for the quick suggestions everyone. I pulled one of my nodes out and will report back as to how that improves things. I have a small house and probably only need two regardless (using wired backhaul) as the initial testing suggests that the coverage is sufficient without the third.
What size of home do you have in Sq feet?
Sojglenn wrote:
Thanks for the quick suggestions everyone. I pulled one of my nodes out and will report back as to how that improves things. I have a small house and probably only need two regardless (using wired backhaul) as the initial testing suggests that the coverage is sufficient without the third.- About 1600 sq ft over two floors. I currently have the main router upstairs at the back of the house and 1 satellite connected via Ethernet to the router on the first floor closer to the front of the house.
Thanks Sojglenn Is this an Orbi 9700 system? The specs on that is one device can handle 3300 square feet. I have found I can get WiFi 6 on my iPhone from the router in the basement, 2 floors up! WiFi 6 has a limited range too. Amazing.
Depending on a number of factors, it's very possible just a router could handle the house. Now, you may find due to construction/layout etc. some areas have a lower download speed...it's a tradeoff. If it works well but some bad signal areas exist that are unacceptable, you could try getting a long run of Cat 6 or 6a cable, and running a long length from your modem to your Router - to be able to more optimally place your router in that scenario.
But in any case, it might just be interesting to see if the drops go away with just a router - then decide how you feel about coverage with some help from folks on here possibly. Is that a possibility to try, especially if the 1 router/1 satellite test doesn't go well (and please do it with the FW v. 9.12.5.3)?
OK for that size of home, the RBR and just one RBS is needed.
What is the distance in between the RBR and RBS? 30 feet is starting distances. Even ethernet connected.
Sojglenn wrote:
About 1600 sq ft over two floors. I currently have the main router upstairs at the back of the house and 1 satellite connected via Ethernet to the router on the first floor closer to the front of the house.- This is an Orbi 770 system (latest firmware). I previously had issues with a single router setup (Comcast router) that I anticipate were due to house materials/etc. Wanted to move to a mesh setup with wired back haul so I didn’t have to rely on wireless to sync between nodes. I also live in California so getting coverage outside is important.
But it is a good suggestion. Let me see how it goes after dropping the third node and will try going to a single node if that doesn’t resolve it. - I would say the distance between the router and satellite is approx 45 ft and about 12 ft higher/lower if that makes sense.
Sojglenn Ah yes, the 770 has a range of 2750 sq feet, so any complications (floors/flooring/layout/# of floors could tax just a router. FURRYe38 is right, router + 1 satellite should work if the satellite is placed properly, at least 30 feet away.
Keep in mind there is a BIG difference in satellite placement when you are using wired backhaul. If you have flexibility on the wiring, with wired backhaul you put the satellite where you have the WORST signal in the house - because the Eth cable will ensure it syncs to the router, and then the satellite brings strong signal to a new part of the house.
But when you are using wireless backhaul, you want to place the satellite on the boundary of a GOOD signal area - otherwise it won't sync - and then it can still improve the wifi signal in an area of the house.
So think about this for where your 1 satellite is located, if you can still get wired BH to it.
Good luck, hope the router + 1 satellite test goes well!
- Thanks all.
While I am about to update the firmware again (I can’t believe I have to go grab a laptop again and an RJ45 dongle and find zip files and take it all around my house like it’s 2004, rather than have such a premium device auto update over the air…but I digress), I just wanted to provide thoughts about my layout based on some of the comments above.
My home is almost 5,000 sqft, along with a small patio in the back where I want good coverage.
It’s a four floor home (including the basement). I currently have my main unit in the basement where my 2GB FIOS service comes into the house. On that same side of the house, but 3 floors up (so, on the 3rd floor), I have Ethernet up to my first satellite on wired backhaul. So, those two seem to spread the signal well across that side of the house. Then I have my 2nd satellite wireless backhaul, on the first floor but way on the other side of the house. It’s in the location that I think is at the outer boundary of a good signal from the wired main unit, and spreads a strong signal for the either side of the house and main floors.
I can try unplugging that unit, but then I’ll likely have no or terrible coverage over on that side of the house. What kills me is I thought this is exactly what a mesh unit was supposed to handle. And I may have to live with it because the developer makes a unit that is so sensitive to a home using the three units they supplied in the box in the first place….
Anyway, I will try the new firmware and cross fingers first…..Thanks for the guidance all. i have same size home here. Both my RBS are ethernet connected. Have good coverage out side as well on on a back deck as well, however there is a RBS with in 20 feet of that area.
Also something everyone should try on there phones as see if this might help. Factory reset the NETWORKING SETTINGS on the phone. May not be related to this specific issue but. I ran into a odd issue on my iPhone 12 Pro Max at work, photos app would not print to any printer I had the phone connected too. While Safari browser would print fine. Printers supported wifi connections. We found that other older phones 6 and 11 would. 12, 14 and 16 wouldn't. We did all kinds of troubleshooting and and wifi capturing. After we had just about exhausted all troubleshooting and debugging, I backed up my phone the night prior and planned to do a full factory reset on the phone and see if this would clear up the photos app printing problem.
Got to work and found that there were a few different reset options on the iPhone. I found there was Networking Settings reset. I figure, lets try this first before doing the full on reset on the phone. Selected the Networking reset option and the phone rebooted. Reconnected to the printer and selected a picture to print from photos app. Low and behold the picture finally printed. Woo hoo. Been trying to figure this problem out for months. Not sure what the reset fixed. Something in the phones networking settings or programming was hosed up with photos app.
Thought maybe could be another troubleshooting step for these phones connecting to BE systems and something to try if issues are seen.
- I updated to 9.12.5.3 today. Seemed to be working great, but up in our bedroom I’m having the same issue again (this is where it used to happen frequently too—maybe because I’m midway in between two satellites). I also have Private WiFi turned off. Bummer.
Next I may try to factory reset all my units? Or turn off my one wireless satellite.
That’s my problem though.
My home is almost 5,000 sqft, along with a patio in the back where I want good coverage. So, really I’m looking to cover about 6,000 sqft.
It’s a four floor home (including the basement). I currently have my main unit in the basement all the way on the left side of the house, where my 2GB FIOS service comes into the house. On that same side of the house, but 3 floors up (so, on the 3rd floor), I have Ethernet up to my first satellite on wired backhaul. So, those two seem to spread the signal well across that side of the house. Then I have my 2nd satellite wireless backhaul, on the first floor but way on the opposite side of the house. It’s in the location that I think is at the outer boundary of a good signal from the wired main units, and that wireless RBS is in a good spot to spread a strong signal for the right side of the house and main floors, as well as the backyard patio which is off that right side of the house. That wireless unit is one floor up from the basement RBR, and has to be a good 40 feet away. And it’s also that far away at least from the one up on the 3rd floor.
I can try unplugging that wireless unit, but then I’ll likely have much slower coverage over on that side of the house.
Anyway, I’ll take a look at the guide above on placement and see how that goes. Funny thing is I actually bought a 3rd RBS that I previously had connected, but pulled out after I realized it was too much. But what’s in the box really seems like it should work well with my setup. One issue I see with your system, the RBR in the basement. Basements are not good places for the main RBR unit. Concrete and steel will inhibit good Wi-Fi coverage and travel. Main or 2nd level is best. This maybe why your having some problems and not getting better coverages where you need it.
I agree, which is why one of my suggestions was to test by putting the router in a much more centralized place in the house. It would be easy, without doing a lot of work to just get say a 100 foot Cat 6 or 6e cable to run from the modem to the router, and just run the cable along the floor or whatever, up to the first floor somewhere. And install the router there. Then, see how it works. If that works great, with or without other satellites, then you can plan how to do the wiring properly to relocate the router. If it doesn’t help, then you’re only out the cost of a cable. 0tis
- Got it, thanks. I guess I can try that. Seems totally bonkers to me that I need to run wiring all over my house for this, when the whole point of these mesh systems is to give me wireless conveniently. If I wanted CAT6 all over my house I’d have run it! The engineers can’t solve hand off problems and leave me calling in wiring guys?? For whatever it’s worth, with my older gen Orbi systems, the router in the basement (where all my service comes into my house) has never been a problem.
So frustrating … MESH systems do work with wireless connections. Just if there is interferences or blocking materials, this will play a factor in how they operation. Concrete and steel will cause problems regardless of the MESH system.
- Just to save you possible time and frustration I have the router and sattelite hard wired together after running cat6 through my attic and walls… it does not solve the handoff problems whatsoever for apple iPhone devices with wifi7 capabilities (iPhone 15 and 16). I’m prob on my 5th beta firmware with engineering without avail but I seem to get a new one to try every few weeks. Would def recommend opening a support ticket id you haven’t so Netgear can see this is a widespread problem impacting one of the most popular phones in the world…
Just curious, has a network settings reset been performed on the phones?
How many RBS are deployed?
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router 📡 and satellite(s)🛰️?
Bpberthiaume wrote:
Just to save you possible time and frustration I have the router and sattelite hard wired together after running cat6 through my attic and walls… it does not solve the handoff problems whatsoever for apple iPhone devices with wifi7 capabilities (iPhone 15 and 16). I’m prob on my 5th beta firmware with engineering without avail but I seem to get a new one to try every few weeks. Would def recommend opening a support ticket id you haven’t so Netgear can see this is a widespread problem impacting one of the most popular phones in the world…- Thanks this is good to know.
As another effort before doing anything drastic, I just factory reset my router and re setting up the network. Maybe that’ll help.
Also, I tired unplugging the third satellite. No bueno. My iphone registers either 2 bars of wifi or even 1 in the furthest room. So, that ain’t gonna cut it. As it stands, when I sit on the couch in the farthest room, I get something like 900MB of wireless service. So it’s rock solid. It’s just somewhere in between the several routers where the firmware craps the bed and can’t figure what to do. Let us know.
FR may not help with the building materials and the RBR being the the basement. Would be good if you can get it out of the basement area and up on a main level if possible. Just trying to help you get the best placement for the RBR and allow it best chances for good operation and narrow down the issues.
Yup network settings reset on both mine and my wife’s iphone 16 plus.
Home is 4000sq ft - ranch style home - main floor is 2k sq ft, basement is 2k sq ft. Both Router and Sat are on opposite ends of the main floor about ~80ft apart give or take and hardwired via cat6.
WiFi drops occur when the satellite is plugged in - regardless of any beta firmware I’ve been provided. When I unplug the satellite, the WiFi drop issues stop… def isolated when Apple Wifi7 enabled devices are between the router/satellite - constant drops in service occur. I’m being told by Level2 support that ENG is still actively working on beta firmwares to provide me - but just surprised this long standing thread is not getting more traction and faster turnaround on a fix.
Ok, keep in touch with NG support thru your support ticket.
Bpberthiaume wrote:
Yup network settings reset on both mine and my wife’s iphone 16 plus.
Home is 4000sq ft - ranch style home - main floor is 2k sq ft, basement is 2k sq ft. Both Router and Sat are on opposite ends of the main floor about ~80ft apart give or take and hardwired via cat6.
WiFi drops occur when the satellite is plugged in - regardless of any beta firmware I’ve been provided. When I unplug the satellite, the WiFi drop issues stop… def isolated when Apple Wifi7 enabled devices are between the router/satellite - constant drops in service occur. I’m being told by Level2 support that ENG is still actively working on beta firmwares to provide me - but just surprised this long standing thread is not getting more traction and faster turnaround on a fix.
Will do - i know you’re very active in this forum as well. Would def encourage you to recommend folks open up a support ticket. When i talk to the NG support folks, they all describe this as a ‘very rare’ occurrence and I continue to tell them there is a multi page year long thread on their own support forums of many people dealing w/ this as they upgrade to the latest NG WiFi 7 routers and Wifi7 IPhones - power in numbers 😉
Will get this over to NG as well.
Keep on it.✊
Bpberthiaume wrote:
Will do - i know you’re very active in this forum as well. Would def encourage you to recommend folks open up a support ticket. When i talk to the NG support folks, they all describe this as a ‘very rare’ occurrence and I continue to tell them there is a multi page year long thread on their own support forums of many people dealing w/ this as they upgrade to the latest NG WiFi 7 routers and Wifi7 IPhones - power in numbers 😉
- Interesting. Sounds like my exact same problem. On far ends of the house where I really can only reach one sat or the router I seem Ok. But in the middle of the house where I have a medium signal from both seems to be where the problem occurs most.
Keep us posted on the firmware. I’d be happy to test it too.
