Crimp On, just FYI on the WIFI 7 971/970 Router Satellites. You seem to be the 2.4MHz expert and my update is not on the 860, but this info may help you answering questions in the future.I had nothing but hours of problems with my IOT devices trying to get my iPhone 15 Pro Max with WiFi 6E to “assist my Orbi 971 Router with IOT connections.80% of my IOT devices are in the Office where the Router is, or in the Kitchen and utility room (both with only 1-wall between the IoTs and the router. But, what I noticed was that none of my IOt devices connected to the IOT SSID on the 971 Router (router was anywhere from 10’ -25’ from the majority of my iot devices). Everything in those 3 closest rooms connected to the 2.4 IOT SSID in either if the two satellites in bedrooms on the opposite ends of the house.As a result, the closest IOT devices to the router, had the worst WiFi signal strength (1-2 bands). I finally shut down both satellites and turned off the Router 2.4 IOT SSID, I intended to connect all my IOT’s to the main SSID using the 2.4 MHz band.I’d read your suggestion numerous times about turning down the 2.4 mhz power so I decided to try that to see if my IOTs closest to the router would connect.The 168 page Orbi 971/970 user manual showed the power config for 2.4 &5.MHz was on Pages 71/72. I opened the router Web GUI and navigated to the page 71/72 power setting screens. Wrong!! Even though the user Manual is dated October (?) 2023, NG apparently removed those power options in some firmware upgrade, at least on the 971, you might want to check the 860, reducing 2.4 power might not be an option anymore either.Anyway, I did make sure my IOT SSID was only set for 2.4 MHz 5Mhz turned off.I then went into my iPhone 15 pro max settings and put it in airplane mode to eliminate any issues with router dropping my WiFi signal and moving to cellular. (It just did that while I was typing this reply, I had to start all over!)While in my iPhone settings, I found an interesting setting (will only be in iPhone 15, that’s first version to offer WiFI 6E). When I went to WiFi Settings, and then clicked on my main SSID, about 2/3rds down that page was an item that said “ “WiFi 6E” Automatic. The other option was “off”. I turned the WIFi option off to keep my iPhone from connecting to 6E even when I selected the IOT SSID that is only set for 2.4MHz band.When I checked Orbi 970 “Connected Devices, my iPhone was now connected to IOT on 2.4 band. I think prior to that, NG has somehow combined your cell phone devices to actually use all 3 bands set up for your main SSID on the 971, even though you’ve connected to the IOT SSID that should limit your iPhone to 2.4Mhz, except in this NG “mutated” SSID arrangement.Anyway, with no 2.4 MHz interference from the two satellites, no cellular competition with my WiFi SSID, I kept my iPhone close to the IOT devices I was moving from the main SSID as I first configured them back the IOT SSID. This time all my devices connected my first try, and the router device list shows they are all connected to the main router with full WiFi strength (not to the Satellites I had disconnected.After I reconnected all IOTs, I reboot both satellites, changed my IPhone WIFI 6E back “automatic” (I’m now connecting again to the wide open 6MHz band!Just a few things I discovered and tried that worked for my iPhone 15

Alas, the evidence appears to establish that I am not an 'expert' in anything! Thanks for pointing out that the iPhone has options for controlling how it connects. (none of my devices are 'fruit based'). This issue about IoT devices and 2.4G WiFi stems from unfortunate software decisions made by engineers who designed WiFi modules which were then later incorporated into products. "Hey. We need to make our (whatever gizmo) controlled by a smartphone app. Go buy a solution!" 90% of such products "just work".(as they should). The products which cause problems seem to have poorly designed smartphone apps that try to "do too much". i.e. rather than connect to the gizmo on 2.4G, they detect that the smartphone is connected to WiFi at 5G and refuse to continue. This issue has frustrated customers for nearly 8 years! If it involves a $10 smart plug, my advice is "throw the damn thing away and buy something that works!" If it some essential part of the home infrastructure, like a pool controller, heat pump, thermostat, etc. the customer is really screwed. Glad you found a solution.

In my short tenure on this Community (even though I posted 100 times my first week when I didn’t know what I was doing, or how to do it, sorry) I’ve seen your replies! You are always spot on! Like I said, I’m not posting “wildly” any more, but I’m still anxiously following you “smart guru posters!!I like the “fruity” phone reference!! I must be honest. I was late to that party, actually, I was late to the conversion from analog to the whole digital cellular party.And on one particular day in September of 2001, there were many Air Travelers who were trapped with me in Atlanta’s Hartsfield Airport after my early morning flight descend about halfway to my intended destination.I found myself the only cellular customer with an analog cell phone among 60,000 of my new closest friends who all had the new digital “fruity” phones!I can’t tell you how many wives, husbands, parents, children, and rental car companies (all of the 60,000 caller's to rental car places got busy signals) were able to get every call they made to their families using my 1947 analog cell phone! “No line no waiting” to hit an analog cell tower during the transition to digitalSo with that said, I ultimately did take a bite of that fruit, but I was a long time getting to that point!!I’ll try again to answer your questions about my RBE971/970 home setup. You know about all the issues we are still facing with that product, but maybe if you see my explanation of what/how fruit-phone and Orbi interact, you’ll be able to solve the issue.

Roc1 wrote:Anyway, I did make sure my IOT SSID was only set for 2.4 MHz 5Mhz turned off.,,,While in my iPhone settings, I found an interesting setting (will only be in iPhone 15, that’s first version to offer WiFI 6E). When I went to WiFi Settings, and then clicked on my main SSID, about 2/3rds down that page was an item that said “ “WiFi 6E” Automatic. The other option was “off”. I turned the WIFi option off to keep my iPhone from connecting to 6E even when I selected the IOT SSID that is only set for 2.4MHz band.When I checked Orbi 970 “Connected Devices, my iPhone was now connected to IOT on 2.4 band. I think prior to that, NG has somehow combined your cell phone devices to actually use all 3 bands set up for your main SSID on the 971, even though you’ve connected to the IOT SSID that should limit your iPhone to 2.4Mhz, except in this NG “mutated” SSID arrangement.Anyway, with no 2.4 MHz interference from the two satellites, no cellular competition with my WiFi SSID, I kept my iPhone close to the IOT devices I was moving from the main SSID as I first configured them back the IOT SSID. This time all my devices connected my first try, and the router device list shows they are all connected to the main router with full WiFi strength (not to the Satellites I had disconnected.After I reconnected all IOTs, I reboot both satellites, changed my IPhone WIFI 6E back “automatic” (I’m now connecting again to the wide open 6MHz band!Just a few things I discovered and tried that worked for my iPhone 15 This is what the Apple KB sys about this control: === https://support.apple.com/en-us/102285 Use Wi-Fi 6E networks with Apple devices Wi-Fi 6E uses the 6GHz wireless band to enable faster and more reliable wireless connections on supported devices. Here’s how to get the best wireless performance when using Wi-Fi 6E with an Apple device. What you need to use Wi-Fi 6E ... To create a Wi-Fi 6E network, you need a Wi-Fi router or access point that supports Wi-Fi 6E and has its 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands also enabled, preferably using a single network name (SSID) across all bands. === Exactly what the Orbi WiFi 6E devices do and are allowing. With deactivating WiFi 6E for your iPhone 15 Pro, you disallow associating with the 6 GHz network, while the IoT network is published only for 2.4 GHz like you have set on the Orbi 760. Glad we have a happy IoT user Roc1 . [Edit] Worth mentioning this strange "About Wi-Fi 6E networks that have limited compatibility" === For best performance with Apple devices, the Wi-Fi router providing the network should use a single network name across all of its wireless bands: the 2.4GHz band, the 5GHz band, and the Wi-Fi 6E network’s 6GHz band. If the router isn’t using the same name for all bands, your device identifies the network as having limited compatibility. It then finds the name of the corresponding 5GHz network and asks whether you want to join it for better compatibility. If you select OK or Join, your device joins the 5GHz network without the benefits of Wi-Fi 6E. If you select Not Now, your device continues to use the Wi-Fi 6E network, but your overall experience with some activities over the network might not be as expected. Alert: Do you want to also join "WiFi-5G"? === You will unlikely see this message, because of the Orbi 760/770/950/960/970 can't be configured with an SSID with inconsistent compatibility settings. The case ppers of you have routers or access points allowing the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz based SSIDs e.g. with mixed WPA2/WPA3 Personal/SAE mode while the SSID on 6 GHz must be mandatorily on WPA3-SAE.

e “attached devices” list in the App, if my iPhone is using 6MHz, and I open the App, I can still all the IOT SSID devices. I think if the main NG SSID and the IOT SSID were truly separate WIFI networks, normally your device has to be on the same SSID to see devices attached to the network your device is connected to. Some how NG has two different SSID’s established, but their APP treats them as the same SSID. When I was using my iPhone with 6E automatic, and then attaching to the 2.4 IOT SSID, my iPhone was using 6MHz band, not 2.4Mhz that the IOT was set to (after I disabled 5Mhz IIT band). I spent hours trying unsuccessfully to get my IOT devices to connect to the NG IOT SSID. After I disabled 6E automatic to off, my iPhone did show up on the Orbi Connected device list on the 2.4Mhz band, and everyone of my IOT devices connected on 1st “onboarding” try.I did re-enable 6E Automatic when I finished connecting IOT. But, something strange is going on in the Router, or in the App.There have been times when in my house with 6E enabled standing 10’ from the 971 router, I was on the 5Mhz band?!?! It did not automatically switch to 6Mhz band even when I was 10’ close to the router. I tried multiple solutions to get it to connect to 6MHz. I closed/re-opened the App, still 5MHz. I rebooted my iPhone, Orbi app still showed me on 5mhz. I had to reboot the router before my iPhone finally showed up on the App connected at 6Mhz. Maybe the App was stuck in 5 MHz, and not the router.I also have 2.4 IOT devices that show up on the App with an RJ45 icon and not WiFi icon. I have no IOT device that has a LAN wired port??? And that RJ45 “moves around from one WiFi Iot device to other IOT devices. Then, sometimes all IOT devices have WIFI icon. There’s even been a few occasions when my iPhone 15 showed up on the app connected to the router with and RJ45 icon. That could, and does happen if I’m on satellite WIFI that are directly wired (I don’t use wireless backhaul) to the Router. But if I’m standing 10’ from the router, why did my mesh connection not change from the Satellite to my router??The most aggravating is when I started replying to a Community post, or an email while my iPhone shows 3-full WiFi bands. I watch the WiFi corner of my iPhone almost continuously. Halfway thru my typed reply, the full WiFi will immediately disappear and 5G will pop up. When your’e replying to something, that something is on a server your WiFi has you connected to. When it jumps to 5G, the cellular service has no idea what you are replying to. I usually have to get back very close to router before it will reconnect to WIFI. I’ve tried turning off WiFi on my phone, cellular still pops up. Then sometimes 5G will disappear and full WiFi bars re-appear. I’ll go back into my reply, finish typing it, and hit “send”. Every time my phone goes from WiFi-5G-WIFI, and even though I finish typing my reply, I get a “sending error”. It just jumped to 5G as I type this. I had to copy everything I already typed. I’m still connected to 5G network, after I reopened a new reply window and pasted what previously copied.Now I’ve gone back into full 3-bar WiFi. I’ll try sending this now.

Roc1 wrote:I think if the main NG SSID and the IOT SSID were truly separate WIFI networks, normally your device has to be on the same SSID to see devices attached to the network your device is connected to. Some how NG has two different SSID’s established, but their APP treats them as the same SSID The relationship between WiFi SSID and "network" is more nuanced. Orbi's primary network, which allows all devices to communicate with each other, is based on the IP subnet. Wired devices, Prinary WiFi SSID, and IoT SSID are all assigned IPs in the same subnet. Thus they all can communicate with each other. Devices connected to the Guest SSID are assigned IPs in a different subnet. In addition, Guest devices cannot communicate with any other device. (not even other Guest devices.) Personally, I preferred the original WiFi5 Orbi method of managing Guest devices where the user has the option of allowing guest devices to "see" or "not see" other devices.

Re: RBR760 | NETGEAR Communities

11 Replies

CrimpOn
Guru
Jun 21, 2024
Alas, the evidence appears to establish that I am not an 'expert' in anything!

Thanks for pointing out that the iPhone has options for controlling how it connects. (none of my devices are 'fruit based').

This issue about IoT devices and 2.4G WiFi stems from unfortunate software decisions made by engineers who designed WiFi modules which were then later incorporated into products. "Hey. We need to make our (whatever gizmo) controlled by a smartphone app. Go buy a solution!" 90% of such products "just work".(as they should). The products which cause problems seem to have poorly designed smartphone apps that try to "do too much". i.e. rather than connect to the gizmo on 2.4G, they detect that the smartphone is connected to WiFi at 5G and refuse to continue.

This issue has frustrated customers for nearly 8 years! If it involves a $10 smart plug, my advice is "throw the damn thing away and buy something that works!" If it some essential part of the home infrastructure, like a pool controller, heat pump, thermostat, etc. the customer is really screwed.

Glad you found a solution.
- Roc1
  Luminary
  Jun 21, 2024
  In my short tenure on this Community (even though I posted 100 times my first week when I didn’t know what I was doing, or how to do it, sorry) I’ve seen your replies! You are always spot on! Like I said, I’m not posting “wildly” any more, but I’m still anxiously following you “smart guru posters!!
  
  I like the “fruity” phone reference!! I must be honest. I was late to that party, actually, I was late to the conversion from analog to the whole digital cellular party.
  
  And on one particular day in September of 2001, there were many Air Travelers who were trapped with me in Atlanta’s Hartsfield Airport after my early morning flight descend about halfway to my intended destination.
  
  I found myself the only cellular customer with an analog cell phone among 60,000 of my new closest friends who all had the new digital “fruity” phones!
  
  I can’t tell you how many wives, husbands, parents, children, and rental car companies (all of the 60,000 caller's to rental car places got busy signals) were able to get every call they made to their families using my 1947 analog cell phone! “No line no waiting” to hit an analog cell tower during the transition to digital
  
  So with that said, I ultimately did take a bite of that fruit, but I was a long time getting to that point!!
  
  I’ll try again to answer your questions about my RBE971/970 home setup. You know about all the issues we are still facing with that product, but maybe if you see my explanation of what/how fruit-phone and Orbi interact, you’ll be able to solve the issue.
schumaku
Guru
Jun 21, 2024
Roc1 wrote:
Anyway, I did make sure my IOT SSID was only set for 2.4 MHz 5Mhz turned off.
,,,
While in my iPhone settings, I found an interesting setting (will only be in iPhone 15, that’s first version to offer WiFI 6E). When I went to WiFi Settings, and then clicked on my main SSID, about 2/3rds down that page was an item that said “ “WiFi 6E” Automatic. The other option was “off”. I turned the WIFi option off to keep my iPhone from connecting to 6E even when I selected the IOT SSID that is only set for 2.4MHz band.

When I checked Orbi 970 “Connected Devices, my iPhone was now connected to IOT on 2.4 band. I think prior to that, NG has somehow combined your cell phone devices to actually use all 3 bands set up for your main SSID on the 971, even though you’ve connected to the IOT SSID that should limit your iPhone to 2.4Mhz, except in this NG “mutated” SSID arrangement.

Anyway, with no 2.4 MHz interference from the two satellites, no cellular competition with my WiFi SSID, I kept my iPhone close to the IOT devices I was moving from the main SSID as I first configured them back the IOT SSID. This time all my devices connected my first try, and the router device list shows they are all connected to the main router with full WiFi strength (not to the Satellites I had disconnected.

After I reconnected all IOTs, I reboot both satellites, changed my IPhone WIFI 6E back “automatic” (I’m now connecting again to the wide open 6MHz band!

Just a few things I discovered and tried that worked for my iPhone 15

This is what the Apple KB sys about this control:

===

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102285

Use Wi-Fi 6E networks with Apple devices

Wi-Fi 6E uses the 6GHz wireless band to enable faster and more reliable wireless connections on supported devices. Here’s how to get the best wireless performance when using Wi-Fi 6E with an Apple device.

What you need to use Wi-Fi 6E

...

To create a Wi-Fi 6E network, you need a Wi-Fi router or access point that supports Wi-Fi 6E and has its 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands also enabled, preferably using a single network name (SSID) across all bands.

===

Exactly what the Orbi WiFi 6E devices do and are allowing. With deactivating WiFi 6E for your iPhone 15 Pro, you disallow associating with the 6 GHz network, while the IoT network is published only for 2.4 GHz like you have set on the Orbi 760.

Glad we have a happy IoT user Roc1 .

[Edit] Worth mentioning this strange "About Wi-Fi 6E networks that have limited compatibility"

===

For best performance with Apple devices, the Wi-Fi router providing the network should use a single network name across all of its wireless bands: the 2.4GHz band, the 5GHz band, and the Wi-Fi 6E network’s 6GHz band.

If the router isn’t using the same name for all bands, your device identifies the network as having limited compatibility. It then finds the name of the corresponding 5GHz network and asks whether you want to join it for better compatibility.

If you select OK or Join, your device joins the 5GHz network without the benefits of Wi-Fi 6E.

If you select Not Now, your device continues to use the Wi-Fi 6E network, but your overall experience with some activities over the network might not be as expected.

Alert: Do you want to also join "WiFi-5G"?

===

You will unlikely see this message, because of the Orbi 760/770/950/960/970 can't be configured with an SSID with inconsistent compatibility settings. The case ppers of you have routers or access points allowing the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz based SSIDs e.g. with mixed WPA2/WPA3 Personal/SAE mode while the SSID on 6 GHz must be mandatorily on WPA3-SAE.
- Roc1
  Luminary
  Jun 21, 2024
  e “attached devices” list in the App, if my iPhone is using 6MHz, and I open the App, I can still all the IOT SSID devices. I think if the main NG SSID and the IOT SSID were truly separate WIFI networks, normally your device has to be on the same SSID to see devices attached to the network your device is connected to. Some how NG has two different SSID’s established, but their APP treats them as the same SSID. When I was using my iPhone with 6E automatic, and then attaching to the 2.4 IOT SSID, my iPhone was using 6MHz band, not 2.4Mhz that the IOT was set to (after I disabled 5Mhz IIT band). I spent hours trying unsuccessfully to get my IOT devices to connect to the NG IOT SSID. After I disabled 6E automatic to off, my iPhone did show up on the Orbi Connected device list on the 2.4Mhz band, and everyone of my IOT devices connected on 1st “onboarding” try.
  
  I did re-enable 6E Automatic when I finished connecting IOT. But, something strange is going on in the Router, or in the App.
  
  There have been times when in my house with 6E enabled standing 10’ from the 971 router, I was on the 5Mhz band?!?! It did not automatically switch to 6Mhz band even when I was 10’ close to the router. I tried multiple solutions to get it to connect to 6MHz. I closed/re-opened the App, still 5MHz. I rebooted my iPhone, Orbi app still showed me on 5mhz. I had to reboot the router before my iPhone finally showed up on the App connected at 6Mhz. Maybe the App was stuck in 5 MHz, and not the router.
  
  I also have 2.4 IOT devices that show up on the App with an RJ45 icon and not WiFi icon. I have no IOT device that has a LAN wired port??? And that RJ45 “moves around from one WiFi Iot device to other IOT devices. Then, sometimes all IOT devices have WIFI icon. There’s even been a few occasions when my iPhone 15 showed up on the app connected to the router with and RJ45 icon. That could, and does happen if I’m on satellite WIFI that are directly wired (I don’t use wireless backhaul) to the Router. But if I’m standing 10’ from the router, why did my mesh connection not change from the Satellite to my router??
  The most aggravating is when I started replying to a Community post, or an email while my iPhone shows 3-full WiFi bands. I watch the WiFi corner of my iPhone almost continuously. Halfway thru my typed reply, the full WiFi will immediately disappear and 5G will pop up. When your’e replying to something, that something is on a server your WiFi has you connected to. When it jumps to 5G, the cellular service has no idea what you are replying to. I usually have to get back very close to router before it will reconnect to WIFI. I’ve tried turning off WiFi on my phone, cellular still pops up. Then sometimes 5G will disappear and full WiFi bars re-appear. I’ll go back into my reply, finish typing it, and hit “send”. Every time my phone goes from WiFi-5G-WIFI, and even though I finish typing my reply, I get a “sending error”. It just jumped to 5G as I type this. I had to copy everything I already typed. I’m still connected to 5G network, after I reopened a new reply window and pasted what previously copied.
  Now I’ve gone back into full 3-bar WiFi. I’ll try sending this now.
  - CrimpOn
    Guru
    Jun 22, 2024
    Roc1 wrote:
    I think if the main NG SSID and the IOT SSID were truly separate WIFI networks, normally your device has to be on the same SSID to see devices attached to the network your device is connected to. Some how NG has two different SSID’s established, but their APP treats them as the same SSID
    
    The relationship between WiFi SSID and "network" is more nuanced. Orbi's primary network, which allows all devices to communicate with each other, is based on the IP subnet. Wired devices, Prinary WiFi SSID, and IoT SSID are all assigned IPs in the same subnet. Thus they all can communicate with each other. Devices connected to the Guest SSID are assigned IPs in a different subnet. In addition, Guest devices cannot communicate with any other device. (not even other Guest devices.)
    
    Personally, I preferred the original WiFi5 Orbi method of managing Guest devices where the user has the option of allowing guest devices to "see" or "not see" other devices.

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Re: RBR760