Unable to Use Guest Wifi in AP Mode and a Switched Wired Backhaul

schumaku
Guru - Experienced User
Nov 22, 2024
Not sure what this does change on the effective problem. Netgear has an obvious design and implementation flaw, raises wrong expectations on what does make up the supported and documented wired backhaul - regardless if we're facing router or AP opertion mode. From my Netgear SMB networking view: Simply a poorly QA and beta tested my friend. So obvious ... .

Regards,

-Kurt.
CrimpOn
Guru - Experienced User
Nov 22, 2024
CrimpOn wrote:

Quazimodo wrote:

Does anyone have a resolution for running a Guest Network on a Orbi 970 Wifi 7 system in AP mode with wired backhaul? Is there a way to use VLAN instead of having the Guest Network run a DHCP server?

Could you please confirm exactly how the router and satellites are connected.

i.e.

The RBE971 router WAN port is connected to the Firewalla Gold, not to the 10GB Ethernet switch.

The RBE971 router 10GB LAN port is connected to the 10GB switch.

The two RBE970 satellites are connected to the 10GB switch.

The reason for my question is that (at least one) previous Orbi AX system supports Guest WiFi both when satellites are connected to the router over WiFi and when they are connected using Ethernet ('wired').

The RBR750 that is connected to my primary network is in AP mode.

When this Orbi was connected to the primary network, it was assigned an IP address of 192.168.1.xxx by the primary network and created its own LAN subnet as 10.0.0.x

One RBS750 satellite is connected to the RBR750 over WiFi backhaul.

Guest WiFi is enabled on this Orbi system.

When I connect a device to the Guest WiFi, it receives an IP address of 10.0.1.4 (notice that 10.0.1 is a different subnet than the previous primary subnet of 10.0.0

When I move the device close to the satellite and reconnect, the Attached Devices display shows it as connected to the Orbi Satellite. Thus Guest WiFi works when devices are connected to satellites using WiFi backhaul.

I then pulled an Ethernet cable down the hallway and connected the router and satellite using this cable.

In a few minutes, the Attached Devices display now shows the satellite as 'Wired' Good.

The Attached Devices display also shows that device connected to the Guest WiFi on the Orbi Satellite.

Thus, Guest WiFi works when devices are connected to the satellite and the satellite is connected to the router using Ethernet. ('wired')

I have no doubt that engineers can mess up anything. Perhaps the 970 product does not properly support Guest WiFi when the satellites are 'wired'. My old AX 750 system certainly does. (people are tripping over the Ethernet cable as I write this.) If I had a 970 or 770 system, I would be reproducing the experiment (but I don't).

If the 970 system is wired as asked above, I believe a Bug Report should be made to Netgear. (the engineers broke something that used to work.)
- Quazimodo
  Aspirant
  Nov 25, 2024
  
  Hi,
  
  One setup works, the other does not. The setup that works unfortunately is no longer a 10Gbps network, which was my goal buying this equipment.
  
  This does not work:
  RBE971 (main "router") is connected through a 10Gbps LAN port to a TP-Link TL-SX105 switch port (a 5 port fanless 10Gbps unmanaged L2 switch with 100G switching capacity). The two satellites (RBE970) are each connected to a port of the same switch from their 10Gpbs port. I've tried this with two switches of the same model, and another which is a TRENDnet (TEG-S750) with the very samilar characteristics. Same result. Devices that connect to the satellite via the guest network do not reach the internet. They have a "Limited Internet Connection" in Android for example. Devices that connect to the RBE971 via the guest network are able to reach the internet, they don't go through the switch. I've not tried with a Mikrotik CRS-304, I don't own one (yet) but I'm not expecting a different result unless there is a L3 hack that I don't know of.
  
  This does work:
  RBE971 10Gbps LAN port is connected directly to the 10Gbps port of one of RBE970 satellites. The other satellite has its 10Gbps port connected to one of the 2.5Gps port of the RBE971. So no 10Ggbps network.
  
  Thanks.
  - FURRYe38
    Guru - Experienced User
    Nov 25, 2024
    There are known issues with Orbi BE systems not working with some managed and 3rd party non managed swtiches.
    
    Non managed switches should generally work if you have the following wired configuration:
    
    Host router>RBR970 in AP Mode>non managed switch<>RBS ethernet connected to the non managed switch.
    
    Can you try a non managed 1Gb switch to see if this works in between the RBR and RBS? I've tested NGs GS10x and GS30x series switches and all work. I currently have NGs XS505M and GS110MX in betwen my RBR and RBS and have zero issues, router or AP mode.
    
    The above configuration should work as well if you have the RBR in router mode.
    
    https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System 📡 ‌‌🛰️
    
    Your testing of the RBS connected to the RBR directly shows there maybe an issue with the 3rd party brand and model# of switches your using.
Quazimodo
Aspirant
Nov 25, 2024

First off, thanks for your responses.

Currently, the configuration that works for guest network, but has an unwanted 2.5Gbps link at e):

a) Firewalla Gold Pro router LAN port connected to a Mikrotik CRS312, a 10Gbps switch
b) CRS312 port connected to WAN port of RBE971 in AP mode. This minimizes latency to wired gaming devices and network, critical for online gaming.
c) WAN port of RBE971 in AP mode connected to CRS312 switch, where it can't harm latency to wired network.
d) 10 Gbps LAN port of RBE971 connected to 10 Gbps of an RBE970 satellite
e) 2.5 Gbps LAN port of RBE970 connected to 10 Gpbs of the other RBE970 satellite.

Prior to that I had a TP-Link TL-SX105 10Gbps switch in between c) to d), and c) to e). But the guest network did not work for the satellites. Everything else worked as a true 10Gbps network, including the main Wifi. The only issue was the guest network, because of the 192.168.2.X.

And even before that I had a) and b) and all 10Gbps LAN ports of RBE971 and RBE970 connected to the CRS 312 switch. That did not work for main Wifi, you can't have the RBE971 WAN and LAN port on the same switch as per Netgear support.

Thanks.
- FURRYe38
  Guru - Experienced User
  Nov 25, 2024
  If you put a non managed switch, as a temporary test, Get a NG GS 105 or GS305 non managed switch in c) to d), and c) to e). Just connect the GS series switch to one of the other non 10Gb ports behind the RBR for now.
  
  This is only a 1Gb temporary to test to see if you can get both RBS ethernet connected BEHIND the RBR with a non managed switch in between and Guest Network working. Thinking there is something going on with the Tp-Link switch, may not a fully non managed as they say. I have tested the above NG model switches with my 970 series and all works when ethernet connected in between the RBR and RBS when not using my XS505M and GS110MX.
  
  WAN and LAN ports from the RBR can not be ever connected to the same switch. Causes a network loop and arp storm. All must be daisy chained connection wise.
  - Quazimodo
    Aspirant
    Nov 25, 2024
    Thanks, I ordered a Netgear switch and I'll post the result when I get it.
    
    One support technician did suggest a Netgear switch at some point due to their "proprietary backhaul solution", but when we searched at length for a 10Gbps consumer one they could not find one. Still want to know though. If the slower speed works then I'll buy their small 10Gbps consumer switch if they have one coming out.
    
    My Orbi system is past the return date, I regret not fully testing the Guest network earlier but I was happy with everything else working.

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Unable to Use Guest Wifi in AP Mode and a Switched Wired Backhaul