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Is the Nighthawk RAX80 compatible with Australian FTTC NBN?
Hi all, I recently (FINALLY) got FTTC NBN activated at my home. In preperation of this event (upgrade from ADSL of less than 4 Mbps Down) I splurged and bought the Nighthawk AX8 router for my home...
I believe the information I gave regarding the NBN NCD providing an ethernet connection is correct based on reading I had been doing accross multiple forums. As I said, it takes the VDSL signal from the FTTC splitter in the pit out the front of my house and effectively acts as a modem but it is not directly accessible by the user as it has no built-in PPPoE authentication ability so you cant just plug directly into it as far as I know. So yes, in fact all I needed was a router but I was seeking guidance on how to set it up to authenticate PPPoE with my ISP.
I am writing here for any future readers to tell you YES! It is compatible! All the other info I could find was for lower tier Netgear routers and the settings you need to alter are in different directories for the Nighthawk AX8.Interestingly, you do NOT need a password to satisfy your login credentials. On the internet setup page on the router home IP address just put in your username without the "@tpg.com.au" suffix. Set the ISP drop down menu to "PPPoE", leave password blank, leave service name blank, connection mode should be 'Always on', Get IP dynamically from ISP and I use 1.1.1.1 as my primary DNS and 8.8.8.8 as my secondary, though this can also be left as get automatically from ISP if you want.
All of that is straightforward, but heres the rub. Alone, it is not enough. You also need to alter the VLAN setting and there is a little trick to that. In the AX firmware you need to select the 'Advanced' tab at the top left of the page. Then select 'Advanced Setup' from the menu on the left hand side and finally select 'VLAN/Bridge Settings'. I dont know enough to say exactly WHY this set-up works, all I can say is that it does. The VLAN ID of 2 is specifically for TPG and I believe other ISP's use other VLAN ID's. As you can see, I have Port4 on its own group and all others on a different VLAN group. The reason for this is, any port that is associated with the group that has a VLAN ID of 2 and priority of Zero becomes inaccessible after you set this up. I was getting very frustrated because once I was swapping all my ports onto this VLAN Tag the internet light on my router was going from amber to white but it became impossible to access my router or internet via any IP address or even routerlogin.net. However, if I left my active ports on a secondary VLAN Tag with a priority of 2, BINGO, my AX8 was now working with no TP-LINK modem, my ping has dropped, my wifi speeds increased from about 37 Mbps to 47 Mbps on back-to-back runs between the budget router included from TPG to my AX8 Netgear router. Also wifi range was SIGNIFICANTLY increased and of course the addition of WIFI 6 which my next phone will almost certainly have.
I hope this info can help someone else. I probably lost a few years of my life trying every setting I could and resetting the router a million times but it was worth it in the end.
rhys375 wrote:
The NBN Co in Australia provides an NCD device that decodes the VDSL signal and provides an ethernet signal essentially. I have read all that I need is a modem that is able to provide PPPOE information to authenicate with my ISP.
That bit is internally inconsistent.
If the ISP provides "an Ethernet signal" you do not need a modem. Modems are there to take whatever delivers the service to your home and to turn that into an Ethernet "signal".
If the ISP really does deliver Ethernet, a router alone should be enough. It is then up to the ISP to tell you what settings to use.
But if this is Ethernet to the house where does this come in?
rhys375 wrote:
I have disabled the wifi signal from the TP Link
What is that tp-link box thing there for if you already get Ethernet.
There are some common things going on in a different discussion about NBN. Perhaps reading the other one would help you too.
Re: Faulty Firmware for D7800? - NETGEAR Communities
We seem to have two people trying to use completely different Netgear devices into their NBN networks. One through a modem/router the other through a router.
Here's a test.There's a wire going from the outside world into your tp-link box. What happens if you plug that wire into a PC instead of the tp-link?
My main conclusion from these saga is that not only have Australian politicians made a pig's breakfast of this NBN initiative, but also its communications with customers has been abysmal. "My NBN won't work" is one of the most common discussions we see around here. I can't believe that this is all down to the customers.
I believe the information I gave regarding the NBN NCD providing an ethernet connection is correct based on reading I had been doing accross multiple forums. As I said, it takes the VDSL signal from the FTTC splitter in the pit out the front of my house and effectively acts as a modem but it is not directly accessible by the user as it has no built-in PPPoE authentication ability so you cant just plug directly into it as far as I know. So yes, in fact all I needed was a router but I was seeking guidance on how to set it up to authenticate PPPoE with my ISP.
I am writing here for any future readers to tell you YES! It is compatible! All the other info I could find was for lower tier Netgear routers and the settings you need to alter are in different directories for the Nighthawk AX8.
Interestingly, you do NOT need a password to satisfy your login credentials. On the internet setup page on the router home IP address just put in your username without the "@tpg.com.au" suffix. Set the ISP drop down menu to "PPPoE", leave password blank, leave service name blank, connection mode should be 'Always on', Get IP dynamically from ISP and I use 1.1.1.1 as my primary DNS and 8.8.8.8 as my secondary, though this can also be left as get automatically from ISP if you want.
All of that is straightforward, but heres the rub. Alone, it is not enough. You also need to alter the VLAN setting and there is a little trick to that. In the AX firmware you need to select the 'Advanced' tab at the top left of the page. Then select 'Advanced Setup' from the menu on the left hand side and finally select 'VLAN/Bridge Settings'. I dont know enough to say exactly WHY this set-up works, all I can say is that it does. The VLAN ID of 2 is specifically for TPG and I believe other ISP's use other VLAN ID's. As you can see, I have Port4 on its own group and all others on a different VLAN group. The reason for this is, any port that is associated with the group that has a VLAN ID of 2 and priority of Zero becomes inaccessible after you set this up. I was getting very frustrated because once I was swapping all my ports onto this VLAN Tag the internet light on my router was going from amber to white but it became impossible to access my router or internet via any IP address or even routerlogin.net. However, if I left my active ports on a secondary VLAN Tag with a priority of 2, BINGO, my AX8 was now working with no TP-LINK modem, my ping has dropped, my wifi speeds increased from about 37 Mbps to 47 Mbps on back-to-back runs between the budget router included from TPG to my AX8 Netgear router. Also wifi range was SIGNIFICANTLY increased and of course the addition of WIFI 6 which my next phone will almost certainly have.
I hope this info can help someone else. I probably lost a few years of my life trying every setting I could and resetting the router a million times but it was worth it in the end.
Excellent feedback and diagnostics. It really amounts to this bit in my earlier message:
If the ISP really does deliver Ethernet, a router alone should be enough. It is then up to the ISP to tell you what settings to use.
What it tells us is that when setting up it is important to dig out the ISP's settings. Unfortunately, they do not all provide the information that users need for a quick setup, perhaps because they don't expect customers to want to use their own equipment.
So, when people ask about devices in future, it is important to ask which ISP is involved and where people can find the key settings.
This conversation has added another set of initials to the mix, FTTC (fibre to the curb). Not only do these not feature in Netgear's KnowledgeBase article, they are not the same technology that FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) means in the UK and other places.
There's another but in there that is familiar:
rhys375 wrote:
Interestingly, you do NOT need a password to satisfy your login credentials. On the internet setup page on the router home IP address just put in your username without the "@tpg.com.au" suffix.
Lot of DSL services also work like that, a username that can be various takes on the username and no need for a password.
The need for a username and password dates back to an era when we all dialled into the internet from different places rather than a single phone line. So ISPs needed to know who was dialling in and which account they were on.
These days we have fixed access that s tied to our physical line, ISPs know the line you are on and do not need to verify who you are.
Unfortunately, I can't see any mention of which ISP is involved in this case. The "Australian NBN" could be anything. (Perhaps it is the TPG listed in the login details.) So it won't be easy to point other people at this as an answer.
If it is TPG then this pages is enlightening:
Solved: NBN Fibre to the Curb (FTTC) Setup Guide - TPG Community
It seems to show that they do indeed provide a modem/router, but they have it set up in "bypass" mode, with no need for the modem bit. The support people there insist on calling it a "modem" when it really is a modem/router, with a useless and unnecessary "modem" bit.
Unfortunately that page is devoid of any mention of the settings needed to get a different router to play ball.
Perhaps it is the stuff in this message:
Netgear ORBI RBK23 CONNECTION TO TPG NBN HFC - TPG Community
What we have confirmed here is that NBN is a bit of a complicated mess.
Thanks mate,
Yes I did spend over an hour I think on the phone to my ISP, who is in this case TPG, and they walked me through most of the settings but neglected to point out the importance or even existance of VLAN settings. They were very patient but I think ultimately not very competant with anything outside the boilerplate style router that they are used to dealing with.Yes FTTC does refer to Fibre to the Curb in this case. We also have Fibre to the Node (FTTN), Fibre to the Premisis (FTTP), Hybrid Fibre Coaxial (HFC), Fixed Wireless (essentially a high-speed short-range mobile network for country towns) and Sky Muster (satellite). I have previously had FTTP at an old house where the fibre literally terminates inside a cabinet inside your home and the Network Connection Device (NCD) provided for that service provides an enternet signal that does not even require PPPoE details. You can literally plug your computer into that NCD and start using the internet provided you have an active plan. No router required.
Originally, the Australian NBN was meant to be a world-class FTTP network to over 90% of the population, but a certain government came in and turned it into a dogs breakfast of myriad technologies. Even someone like me who is fairly techy has a hard time understanding what is needed for all the different connection types.
In any case, I am super happy to have my new router up and running :-)
rhys375 wrote:
....neglected to point out the importance or even existance of VLAN settings.
That looks like the key bit. It is a part of the other message I linked to. I found it after reading your account.
Seems to apply to any router you try to use.
rhys375 wrote:
Originally, the Australian NBN was meant to be a world-class FTTP network to over 90% of the population, but a certain government came in and turned it into a dogs breakfast of myriad technologies.
That one has come up here before!
When politicians get technological, look for disaster.