Problem with NET VIEW, W10, R7000, most recent firmware (including V1.0.9.20)

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IrvSp wrote:

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EruvWeather wrote:

A few more clues:

 

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/eba9a147-c1de-41b1-99aa-9c65efd45d8f/cant-access-smb-share-after-update-to-1709?forum=win10itpronetworking

 

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/22940fbe-b32b-4ec2-8619-de551cca5904/smb1-protocol-disabled-and-now-i-cant-use-file-explorer-to-access-mapped-network-shares?forum=win10itpronetworking

 

This is going to likely come down to weighing the security risk over the aesthetics of the Network places Explorer. Really leaning toward this being a SMB 1.0 issue and the R7000.

 

NETGEAR ... if anyone is reading this, some official insight would be beneficial.

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Both links don't really apply.

First is about access from non-Windows machines to Windows machines mainly. The second is from May 2017, but my problem wasn't seen until probably mid-Dec. 2017?

 

Both are close though.

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Yes, I did not notice any issues until about six weeks ago also ... but it does speak to the role that SMB 1.0 plays.

I did not enable SMB 1.0 on the affected system. But, I did just map the drive (\\readyshare\readyshare) to see what would happen. Through mapping, the drive is immediately available, regardless of the fact it does not show up in the "Network Places" section of Explorer. Another strong indcator that while annoying, this seems to be the intended behavior that MS wants -- that NAS drives be mapped, and not "discovered."

Will live with this for a bit, since I am wary of turning on SMB 1.0 given the known security issues. I will keep you posted!

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EruvWeather wrote:

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Yes, I did not notice any issues until about six weeks ago also ... but it does speak to the role that SMB 1.0 plays.

 

I did not enable SMB 1.0 on the affected system. But, I did just map the drive (\\readyshare\readyshare) to see what would happen. Through mapping, the drive is immediately available, regardless of the fact it does not show up in the "Network Places" section of Explorer. Another strong indcator that while annoying, this seems to be the intended behavior that MS wants -- that NAS drives be mapped, and not "discovered."

 

Will live with this for a bit, since I am wary of turning on SMB 1.0 given the known security issues. I will keep you posted!

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A few things here...

• Both of us hit the problem around the same time.
• SMB 1.0 seems to be involved.
• Yes, NET USE to assign a drive letter still works. However that doesn't help an iPad or other non-OS devices that have the capability to use drive letters, only network shares.
• As I expected, the ability to use NET VIEW goes away once the PC is rebooted after it worked after just rebooting the router only. Was working before I shutdown last night, but not when after I booted this morning, NET VIEW error 1231 is back.

So I sort of think there are a few parts here to the problem.

1. Netgear is dependent on SMB 1.0 for the Network Share information.
2. Something changed in mid Dec. with respect to Windows 10 that might have broken the process.
3. Once a PC tries to become the Master Browser and the Router is no longer the Master Browser the whole process is broken. Router can not become the Master Browser again it seems (possibly the cause of the 1231 error). That is it can't get the device list it seems. Suspect it is more that is can't become the MB than not being able to get the list. I could be wrong though.
4. If the PC that tries to become the Master Browser doesn't have SMB 1.0 enabled the whole process is broken.

Considering the above, I just wonder if all the PC were to be disabled to become the Master Browser would this solve the problem? Seems to be an easy Registry change? See https://pattersonsupport.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/8124/~/disable-the-master-browser.

BTW, another one who has this problem. See https://community.netgear.com/t5/Nighthawk-WiFi-Routers/Windows-cannot-access-Readyshare/m-p/1482790#M78873, last message before my reply.

EruvWeather, TheEther, well just as you think you have it figured out, it got worse, and more confusing...

Want to go past the nitty gritty mess I was in, go to the end on what happened with NEW VIEW.

A week ago a friend comes to me with his PC and it is Windows 10, V1709 and just will not boot. It cycles around doing a repair, diagnosing, and the the selection screen of boot W10 or Advanced options... I tried everything I knew, the Fixboot and BCDedit commands, NOTHING fixed it. At that time RESTORING/REPLACING (Renew) Win10 seemed to be the only option, but that would cause loss of programs (had no image backups to us). So he said don't do that, he'll take it to a computer repair place. He said nothing was added or done to the PC other than shutting it down. Goes to the store and they check it out and call him that they MUST re-install W10 and question him what was on it. Determined only a few non-ms programs were used so they said they can handle all but those (printer drivers, A/V, etc.). He got it back, installed all those and was working fine.

TWO days later my wife's PC hit the SAME EXACT problem!!! Except I use Acronis TrueImage for backups. First thing I tried was the manual rebuilding of the Boot Record and BCD... didn't help. OK, loaded the last saved backup, system booted to it, phew... Next morning, the problem was back!!! Very confused, but I assumed at that point somehow TrueImage managed the booting of the OS even when the PC was turned off after restoring (I don't see how though this could happen?). A few more tries of restoring and the same results. I do have a W7 bootable partition, tried that and it worked fine? Very odd? So I put the C: image on that, no go, get a wrong version message. OK, restored the boot record using the manual fixes, back to the booting error? Ugh...

Last resort, got out the Media Creation tool and installed W10 to the SSD (C: still had the last backup in it) and it installed and WINDOWS.OLD had the usual stuff Windows saves when installing updated versions.

For whatever reason THAT booted fine over 2 days? OK, I'll put the saved image for C: only back on... boot fails and circles on fixing and diagnostics... something in the booting process isn't working, probably damaged in the image? Searching the web, NO SUCH fail by anyone else. In trying to fix the the MBR using  BOOTREC I was having an ACCESS DENIED error with /FIXMBR but a lot of those reports I saw had some solutions, such as using DISKPART (which I tried) but most DID NOT SOLVE the problem?

So, getting back to why I posted here... NET VIEW PROBLEMS...

Wife's PC has a 'clean' install of W10 x64 Pro now on it. A NET VIEW on her PC works fine... she can see herself, my PC and READYSHARE? Checked the SMB1 features, her PC has AUTO REMOVAL and the SERVER???? My PC, 1231 error??? Huh? No, the R7000 has NOT been rebooted for a long time.

It is holding working with NET VIEW over many reboots and over 2 days with it off overnight. Something I couldn't do on my PC?

As you might recall, SMB1 being in W10 V1709 wasn't supposed to happen? Prior to NET VIEW not working and getting the 1231 error all the time I checked if SMB1 was on her PC and it wasn't. Turning it on like mine, AUTO REMOVAL and CLIENT didn't make it work on her PC either. I then disabled them.

So WHY are they on now? Is SMB1 in or out of W10 is the question?

Undoubtedly I need to fix some Network settings between the two machines. Where before Explorer at least showed both of our PC's and some parts of the R7000, I now ONLY see the R7000, not even my PC???

So I'm pretty sure since my wife's PC can see ALL the PC's and the Router on the NETWORK, but under NET VIEW and inside Explorer, there has to be some sort of problem on my NETWORK, but that doesn't explain WHY both EruvWeather and I have a similar problem?

Somehow there appears to be a network W10 problem and it is either the cause of everything or the R7000 has a hand in this as the request has to go through it.

Only 'good news' I have is the DLNA server hasn't disappeared yet. Checking the uptime of the router and it has been up for 4 1/2 days so far...

Now I have to figure out how to get the network between my wife's PC and mine working, and I suspect PERMISSIONS? I recall I had to put a 'USER' on her PC, but not sure. EVERYONE PERMISSIONS doesn't seem to work? Maybe it was also GUEST that was needed? More research to do.

EruvWeather, TheEther, OK, I sort of backing off that this might be a Win10 problem?

Why, I checked and double checked ALL settings between my PC and my Wife's PC. Her Net View worked fine, mine always got the 1231 error. I looked at many many web pages via Google searches for Win10 and Net View not working. If there was a suggestion anywhere,, a service to change, a command to look at, a network setting to look at, etc., I looked, changed if mine was different, and compared them to my wife's PC, and if we were the same, I left mine. Remember, at some point mine worked. I used Genie on my iPad to check everything (I don't think that program was reliable though, showed less devices on the network vs. Genie in the browser on both our PC's). NOTHING would make Net View work on my PC.

So I REBOOTED the R7000...

==================

C:\>time
The current time is:  7:36:34.25
Enter the new time:

C:\>net user

User accounts for \\IRV8700

-----------------------------------------------------------
Administrator            DefaultAccount           Guest
irvsp                    WDAGUtilityAccount
The command completed successfully.


C:\>net view
Server Name            Remark

-----------------------------------------------------------
\\IRV8700              Irv's 8700
\\READYSHARE           readyshare
The command completed successfully.

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SUCCESS!!!

There has to be a COMMUNICATION problem between the R7000 and 'a' PC. Now my wife's PC is NOT on right now, but I'm turning it on.

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C:\>
C:\>net view
Server Name            Remark

--------------------------------------------------
\\IRV8700              Irv's 8700
\\LARAINE-XPS8500      Laraine's XPS8500
\\READYSHARE           readyshare
The command completed successfully.

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OK, on her machine (which worked fine up until this morning) when I issue Net View returns with "The Service has not been started", More help is available by typing NET HELPMSG 1284, which returns "The Service has not been started", sure is a lot of help.

Searching, I found this, https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/bd0af6aa-51ec-477a-8c81-888a4e60bd94/master-browser-service-broken-after-creator-update?forum=win10itpronetworking, and there is a LOT of interesting stuff in there... things to look at and try but NOTHING fixes the problem. For instance the one about using TASKLIST at Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:12 PM, I tried it on both PC's, and mine doesn't show it as "svchost.exe                   2772 Browser, LanmanServer" but like the part above, individually, and I'm working.

I really don't think this IS a W10 problem. After all, it WAS working before on ALL PC's. Something had to change, and I suspect the firmware.

Well, for what it is worth, we left the house for a few ours and left out computers on. The both 'go to sleep' shutting off the hard drive and display. Came back and I no longer have NET VIEW working. Get the 1231 error. My wife's PC is working fine...

What does that tell me, and I know her PC was used before mine, I still suspect the R7000 is causing a problem here. As I see it, with NO PC's on, the R7000 IS the MB. Once either of the PC's comes on, that PC becomes the MB. If a PC is the MB and another PC comes on, the MB is still the original PC. Once that PC goes off (or sleeps as the Network Connection does drop and comes back on when awoken) if there is a PC it becomes the MB. No PC, the R7000 becomes the MB.

The problem I suspect is that the R7000 doesn't know how to PASS the MB request to the 2nd and later PC's after another PC is the MB. This used to work fine, ALL PC's could use NET VIEW, but right now ONLY ONE will work.

Baffling...

IrvSp... So, it does look like something realted to SMB1.0!

On my system, there are three checkboxes beneath SMB 1.0 ...

> ... Automatic Removal

> ... Client

> ... Server

NONE of the boxes are checked.

On the other Win10 system on my network, ALL the boxes were checked.

So, to clarify ... you only checked the "client" box, an no others, and that resolved the issue for you?

If so, I may try that. Although, given the security considerations, and the fact that mapping the ReadyShare drive makes it easily accessable, and everything else works, I may just leave things alone.

Regardless, this is fascinating on so many levels, and of course - it would be good if there was some real clarity from Microsoft as to how these changes are being rolled out and the impact to users.

EruvWeather, sorry, wasn't complete in my post. Both Auto Removal and Client are now both checked on both PC's. Before my PC had Server Checked but NOT Client, and the two were reversed on my wife's PC. Turning off Server and on Client fixed my PC's problem. We went out for a few hours and when both were re-booted when we came home BOTH PC's NET VIEW works.

I have a 'theory' why the fresh clean install of W10 Pro x64 Ver. 1709 worked and the other PC didn't...

WannaCry used SMB1 and MS released its fix on May, but I know it worked well after that. So I suspect some other 'protection' I had must have changed mine.  What it was, can't tell?

However, that link you provided, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4034314/smbv1-is-not-installed-windows-10-and-windows-server-version-1709, either is WRONG, or did it?

That link has a lot of statements:

• In Windows 10 Fall Creators Update and Windows Server, version 1709 (RS3), the Server Message Block version 1 (SMBv1) network protocol is no longer installed by default.
• Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional no longer contain the SMBv1 server by default after a clean installation.
• Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional still contain the SMBv1 client by default after a clean installation. If the SMBv1 client is not used for 15 days in total (excluding the computer being turned off), it automatically uninstalls itself.
• In-place upgrades and Insider flights of Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Professional do not automatically remove SMB1 initially. If the SMBv1 client or server is not used for 15 days in total (excluding the time during which the computer is off), they each automatically uninstall themselves. 
• Automatic removal of SMB1 after 15 days is a one-time operation. If an administrator re-installs SMB1, no further attempts will be made to uninstall it.
• Because the Computer Browser service relies on SMBv1, the service is uninstalled if the SMBv1 client or server is uninstalled. This means that Explorer Network can no longer display Windows computers through the legacy NetBIOS datagram browsing method.

That LAST one probably explains the problem, I guess it DOES need the Server? I don't know if Windows Explorer when NETWORK is selected uses the same code NET  VIEW does, but since neither works, I'm sure some parts or calls were.

Disecting the above comments I clipped out:

• The first two STATE SMB V1 is NOT in R1709, yet the Clean Install on wife's PC had it?
• The 3rd states IT IS installed but if not used will be deleted 15 days later????
• The 4th is for Updates, and that says if you don't use SMB V1 15 days later it WILL be uninstalled...
• The 5th one says you can re-install it and it will stay.

The first 3 are just contradictory in my mind.

However, the 4th could have been my problem? I know I installed V1709 on 10/18. 15 days will get me to Early Nov., but we were out of town until 11/12. PC was first turned on then. Quite possibly it was sometime close to that I first discovered the NEW VIEW problem?

Quite possible it just deleted/uninstalled the SERVER and left the other 2 features... ???

In any event, I've got it working and Windows Explorer as well as Explorer++ has no problems at all with the Network.