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Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Usr184
Guide

ISP will not update customer owned equipment

My ISP is Mediacom Cable.  My cable modem is a Netgear CM600 running on an ancient firmware.  My ISP will not update the firmware because I own the equipment.  Netgear says they make the updated firmware available to ISPs and that I merely need to contact my ISP and ask them to contact Netgear.  That's awesome, I contacted MediacomCable and they said their policy is that that WILL NOT update customer owned equipment.  So Netgear won't allow me to do it, and my ISP won't touch it because I didn't choose to rent from them.  So what is the lesson?  Rent an archiac modem from the ISP, but because it's a rental I'll never be able to check how out of date my firmware is so I'll be dumb and happy?  

Model: CM600|CM600 High Speed Cable Modem
Message 1 of 41
plemans
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Its a catch 22. damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

This isn't isolated to netgear. The isp's control the firmware on all the modems connected to their service. And each time a firmware is upgraded, the ISP has to pay people to test/certify the firmware on the device. Which is why they don't like to upgrade firmware unless its causing an issue on their network. Mediacom isn't the only one doing it. They're all bad at updating the firmware on modems.  Its also why I don't usually recommend modem/router combo devices either because then the router aspect of it is controlled by the isp as well. 

 

Is there an issue you're having with the modem so that you're seeking a firmware upgrade? 

Message 2 of 41
Usr184
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Yes.  Last week I began experiencing so many drops that I couldn't productively work from home.  I called my ISP, they said there wasn't a problem on their end and since I own my own equipment there was nothing else they can/will do.  In addition to the drops, now that I know Mediacom isn't updating my modem I'm now aware that there are numerous security vulnerabilities present in my existing firmware.

So it seems purchasing ones own modem is a colossal scam as you're more than likely never going to be able to update it yourself and the ISP won't update equipment they don't own.  If you want any chance at receiving an update to your modem apparently the only choice is to be stuck renting equipment from an ISP.  And there's still no guarantee that the ISP will maintain current firmware of it's own equipment.  But since it'll be their equipment they can at least keep the customer from being able to see how far behind the equipment is, thus giving the customer the "ignorance is bliss", feeling of security.

Model: CM600|CM600 High Speed Cable Modem
Message 3 of 41
plemans
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment


@Usr184 wrote:

Yes.  Last week I began experiencing so many drops that I couldn't productively work from home.  I called my ISP, they said there wasn't a problem on their end and since I own my own equipment there was nothing else they can/will do.  In addition to the drops, now that I know Mediacom isn't updating my modem I'm now aware that there are numerous security vulnerabilities present in my existing firmware.

So it seems purchasing ones own modem is a colossal scam as you're more than likely never going to be able to update it yourself and the ISP won't update equipment they don't own.  If you want any chance at receiving an update to your modem apparently the only choice is to be stuck renting equipment from an ISP.  And there's still no guarantee that the ISP will maintain current firmware of it's own equipment.  But since it'll be their equipment they can at least keep the customer from being able to see how far behind the equipment is, thus giving the customer the "ignorance is bliss", feeling of security.


Log into the modem and take a screen snip of your modems connections page and the logs. This helps us determine if it is a line issue or not. 

 

And in regards to you thinking its a scam. That's your opinion. its an industry wide issue. I'm sure netgear/other vendors would love to make isp's update their devices so they're more secure. But they don't. If you want to get upset at someone, blame the large media companies who force you to use their devices and charge you for the privilege. 

Message 4 of 41
Usr184
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

connections page

Message 5 of 41
Usr184
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

page1 of events

Message 6 of 41
Usr184
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

page 2 of events

Message 7 of 41
plemans
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment


@Usr184 wrote:

connections page


click on the cable connection icon. It should open up and show you the connections page. 

Message 8 of 41
Usr184
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Sorry about that, here ya go

Message 9 of 41
plemans
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Here's what I'd try.

I'd connect a pc directly to the modem. you said you were getting frequent drops. If it continues it means its either the modem or the line coming in.If the issue goes away, you're drops are related to the router. 

Most ISP's will lease you a modem and then they have to service it. Agree to lease it for a month. Its usually $5-10/month. If the problem persists after they install their modem, it means its a line issue. If it stops, it was the modem. then you can either RMA/replace the modem and drop your lease or you can continue to use the leased on. 

Kind of a crappy situation the ISP's put people in when they refused to check a line if its got 3rd party equipment on it. I've had to do the same thing with a family member using spectrum before. 

Message 10 of 41
CantFixIt
Initiate

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

I am having the same issue with a Netgear C7000 cable,modem,router. My ISP is WOW and they have never pushed a firmware update. Their modems are costly, run hot, and a waste of money per month. I am going to start giving Netgear lousy reviews for not letting customers do their own firmware updates. If anyone has a solution-please respond- I am just about ready to install 3rd party software if I can find something decent.

Model: C7000-1AZNAS|Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi Cable Modem Router
Message 11 of 41
plemans
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment


@CantFixIt wrote:

I am having the same issue with a Netgear C7000 cable,modem,router. My ISP is WOW and they have never pushed a firmware update. Their modems are costly, run hot, and a waste of money per month. I am going to start giving Netgear lousy reviews for not letting customers do their own firmware updates. If anyone has a solution-please respond- I am just about ready to install 3rd party software if I can find something decent.


Then you better put those reviews out there for all manufacturer's of combo devices as its currently a whole industry that has their combo device firmware controlled by the isp. Its not isolated to netgear. 

 

And combo devices don't have "third party" software you can install. If you want to run your own firmware or be able to upgrade it yourself, you need to buy a router seperate from the modem. 

Message 12 of 41
Usr184
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Here's where it all falls apart for me:  Customers that own their own equipment can't get firmware updates to said equipment from the manufacturer because of some BS agreement the manufacturers choose to honor with all the ISPs saying they'll only give firmware updates to ISP's.  Now supposedly this is because the ISP claims the only way they can "guarantee" reliablility to their customers is by vetting the firmwares.  Fine, I'll ignore the part that I'm not prevented from using a modem that's not on the ISP supported list (which they clearly never vet).  So apparently that poses no harm eh?  Wait, the logic falls apart even if you are on the ISP supported hardware and here's why:

 

I bought a new modem that is on the ISP (Mediacomm) "supported hardware list".  Sweet!  I'm back in my IPSs good graces! 

Me to ISP:  Please update my firmware.  Its on your supported list of modems.

ISP response: Um, you're firmware is 3 revisions newer than the latest we support for that modem.  Unless you're having problems with it we see no reason to roll it back. Would you like us to roll it back?

Me:  WTF?  Absolutely not.  And what do you mean you're "supported" firmware release is years behind the current manufacturer's release?  No I don't want it rolled back, I want it updated to the actual manufacturers current firmware that shuts down Cable Haunt.

ISP:  We rigorously test the firmware before we release updates and that take time.

Me:  Really?  Three years behind on firmware....that's some test plan you got there.

 

So if I can buy a new modem that is supported by the ISP, but its likely to come out of the box behind the manufacturers current release yet still newer than what the ISP supports.  Explain how that is any different than the manufacturer giving me that latest and greatest firmware so I can stay secured?  Because it is overwhelming clear the ISPs do not maintain current firmware whether you are using something on their supported list or not. 

 

There is so much blame to go around on its like the chicken and the egg.  I don't care which came first I want the most secure firmware I can get.  The excuse about only ISP tested firmware is the only way to ensure "reliability of the network" as to why manufacturers won't give out the firmware to customers, simly doesn't hold water and it should be considered criminally liable on both the ISP and the modem manufacturers parts.

 

Model: CM600|CM600 High Speed Cable Modem
Message 13 of 41
antinode
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

> [...] Netgear won't allow me to do it, [...]

 

   Netgear can't allow you to do it.  It's a DOCSIS requirement, not a
Netgear requirement.

 

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

 

      https://kb.netgear.com/000036375

 

> [...] some BS agreement the manufacturers choose to honor with all the
> ISPs [...]

 

   Yes.  A manufacturer could "choose" not to meet the DOCSIS standard.
This would be equivalent to not selling any cable modem or modem+router
devices.  How, exactly, would that improve your situation?

 

   Blame assignment is Job One.  Complain to your ISP.  If that fails,
then complain _about_ your ISP.  Presumably, in your jurisdiction, your
ISP operates as a regulated monopoly.  Complain to the regulator.  Can't
be any less effective than complaining here.

Message 14 of 41
IowaTim
Tutor

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

I'm in the same boat.  Bought my own cable modem and can't update the firmware because Netgear says Mediacom does it and when I ask Mediacom to update it, they say they don't update "customer owned" modems.  I sure wish I would have known that before purchasing my own modem!

 

  • I am currently at v2.02.08 firmware.
  • According to the Netgear chart, I should be on v2.02.21 firmware.
  • Cable company said, "yep" we see you're at v2.02.08 firmware but we don't update "customer owned" modems.

 

Let me repeat... Mediacom just TOLD me that they DO NOT update "customer owned" modems.  Good grief!

Message 15 of 41
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Are you have a problem with your modem?

 

Either go with one of the ISP modems that they do update the FW or find a different ISP if thats possible. ISPs control FW updates connected to ISP networks. It's up to ISP to push FW. Some will, some won't. 

 

Good Luck. 


@IowaTim wrote:

I'm in the same boat.  Bought my own cable modem and can't update the firmware because Netgear says Mediacom does it and when I ask Mediacom to update it, they say they don't update "customer owned" modems.  I sure wish I would have known that before purchasing my own modem!

 

  • I am currently at v2.02.08 firmware.
  • According to the Netgear chart, I should be on v2.02.21 firmware.
  • Cable company said, "yep" we see you're at v2.02.08 firmware but we don't update "customer owned" modems.

 

Let me repeat... Mediacom just TOLD me that they DO NOT update "customer owned" modems.  Good grief!


 

Message 16 of 41
IowaTim
Tutor

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

@FURRYe38 

 

I am having problems.  There are several advisories that are FIXED in subsequent firmware updates.  I guess I'm going to remain vulnerable at the expense of corporations like NETGEAR and my ISP, Mediacom.

Message 17 of 41
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

What problems are you having? 

 

Its not NG fault that some ISPs won't push FW to user owned modems. Ask the ISPs why they won't. I believe in history, that ISP had pushed FW to user owned modems however may have caused problems or broke there user owned modem thus causing more cost in getting the modem replaced. Now days ISPs are responsible for testing FW that comes from modem mfrs like NG and there tasked to test it before pushing it out to make sure it works and doesn't break anything on there network. Most big ISPs like CC and XF and others do this and also do push out to user owned modems. Not sure why yours won't and is probably not wanting to risk breaking anything. I Presume maybe they don't have the internal testing infrastructure that the bigger ISPs have. 

 

If your concerned about vulnerabilities, then you may need to go with what the ISP has for there modems to keep up to date and safe if you feel this is a cause for your concern. 

 

If the modem is having problems, then most of those problems are signal line issues that the ISP is repsonsible for making sure the signal quality up to the modem is good. You'll need to have them check this. 

Have the ISP check the signal and line quality UP to the modem. 
Be sure there are no coax cable line splitters in the between the modem and ISP service box. 
Be sure your using good quality RG6 coax cable up to the modem. 

 

Good Luck. 


@IowaTim wrote:

@FURRYe38 

 

I am having problems.  There are several advisories that are FIXED in subsequent firmware updates.  I guess I'm going to remain vulnerable at the expense of corporations like NETGEAR and my ISP, Mediacom.


 

 

Message 18 of 41
IowaTim
Tutor

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

@FURRYe38 

 

I called Mediacom (my ISP) again today and they called NG and NG would not give them the FW for my modem.  NG wanted me to pay for support so they could turn over the FW to my ISP.  I don't care what you say, this is all NG's fault.  NG is GARBAGE.  I just bought a Cisco Router, two Aironets, and a Motorola Cable modem.  This NG GARBAGE is going in the TRASH where it belongs!  It's a shame.  I have 3 ORBIs and my C3700 running as a bridge.  I can't in good concience sell it or even give it away.

 

I have spent over 12 hours on the phone (>90% waiting on hold) in the past 2 days plus a day back in March.  I will never EVER EVER EVER EVER own another peice of NG TRASH ever again.  WORD.  Keep puffing them up.  You're probably one of them.  

Message 19 of 41
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Good Luck. 

 

Message 20 of 41
IowaTim
Tutor

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

@FURRYe38 Thanks! 

 

I just filed a complaint about this whole situation with the FCC.  I encourage anyone else that has had a miserable experience with Netgear Cable Modems to do the same.  I tried filing a formal complaint with Netgear after being on the phone with them for 4 hours last night and was told that someone would call me back to take my complaint.  Guess what?  Nobody from Netgear called me back.  My only recourse is to report them.  Too bad for Netgear that they refuse to handle miserable customer experiences internally.  

 

https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/

 

Message 21 of 41
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

I would check with your ISP again. I believe your ISP should be in contact with NG regarding new FW. Again, is still up to the ISP to push FW to user owned modems. It is NOT NGs resposibility. Check cable modems ISP policies regarding this. Industry wide. 

 


@IowaTim wrote:

 

I called Mediacom (my ISP) again today and they called NG and NG would not give them the FW for my modem.  .  


 

Message 22 of 41
ronpro
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

Kinda Old Forum but I ran accross it and thought I would share my frustration.

 

We are an ISP in Iowa trying to update some client modems/routers and I haven't had any luck in doing so with Netgear. See this...

 

Re: Cable Modem Firmware - NETGEAR Communities

Message 23 of 41
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

NG posts what FW versions they give to ISPs:

https://kb.netgear.com/000036375/What-s-the-latest-firmware-version-of-my-NETGEAR-cable-modem-or-mod...

 

Again, it's up to ISP to push FW updates to modems. Some do, some do not. If you have a ISP that does not, it's recommended to get a modem that they will or rent one from the ISP, then connect up a external wifi router which you can control the FW updates on the external wifi router. 

 

Good Luck. 


@ronpro wrote:

Kinda Old Forum but I ran accross it and thought I would share my frustration.

 

We are an ISP in Iowa trying to update some client modems/routers and I haven't had any luck in doing so with Netgear. See this...

 

Re: Cable Modem Firmware - NETGEAR Communities


 

Message 24 of 41
ronpro
Guide

Re: ISP will not update customer owned equipment

FURRYe38, I am an ISP. The issue is getting to the firmware/cvc from a portal to place in my server to push updates to the Netgear Modems. I've been after Netgear for years and gave up multiple times. Started the request again with NO luck. No returned calls or response to trouble ticket etc... So I can understand why some ISPs don't want to push firmware to Netgear modems or place on system. I've been dealing with Arris and Motorola (Now both Commscope) for years and never had a problem getting what I need to keep modems up to date. Really Frustrated with Netgear!!

Message 25 of 41
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