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Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973

IoT (finally) comes to networking

johngm
NETGEAR Employee Retired

IoT (finally) comes to networking

Insight-Blue-Light.pngAs ironic as it sounds, the networking infrastructure which is the fundamental enabler for the Internet of Things (IoT) has been largely neglected when it comes to cloud awareness, until now.   

 

The reason is has been neglected is probably rooted in the fact that most intelligent networking infrastructure, has always been “connected.”   So when it came to enabling non-networking devices, creating integrated and autonomous cloud connections, the last thing most people were thinking about was these previously connected devices.   Sure they were cloud accessible, but it needed to be enabled through network tunnels or custom router ports which were complicated to set up and rife with security issues.  

 

That is why NETGEAR’s rapidly expanding Insight product portfolio is such a breakthrough for small networking and storage operators.   This complete line of switches, access points and storage solutions all enable cloud connectivity (remote management, monitoring and alerts) right out of the box.   All that is needed is local discovery and association with a NETGEAR customer account, and the device can be securely accessed from anywhere in the world, right from the palm of your hand.    Our iconic “blue light” is the indicator that your device has an active link to our worldwide Insight cloud.  

 

This spring NETGEAR announced another revision of the Insight application which is now available for iOS, Android or PC browsers.   On this revision we have added advanced functionality, more monitoring capabilities, more extensive WiFi configuration tools and improved user experience.  

 

There are two elements of the Insight ecosystem which we feel are particularly unique and powerful for our customers.  

  • First, Insight devices are just like the “non-cloud enabled” devices they replace.    In other words, we provide the same features for roughly the same price with the same local subnet user experience and the same “out of the box and into operation” simplicity.   But unlike any other product, these ones have the option of instantly connecting with the cloud.   Whether you’re ready to step into the new world of internet connected networking right now, or at any time in the future, you pay nothing to have this feature ready-to-go whenever you and your network require remote access. 
  • Second, in keeping with the notion of being on the cutting edge, the Insight application is not just for Insight devices.    Insight application also allows our customer to register ANY NETGEAR device to this same NETGEAR customer account, and to enjoy the benefits of 1-click registration, web-based support capabilities, security alerts and a host of application enhancements which will make it easier for you to get all of the benefits of being a NETGEAR customer.   

 

We believe that our recently introduced Insight devices (Access points WAC505 & WAC510, Switches GC110, GC110P, GC510P, GC510PP, GC728X, GC728XP and all currently shipping ReadyNAS products) are the first truly cloud-connected IoT networking devices.    All of these products deliver full features whether you choose to cloud connect today or not.  Begin moving your networks into the future with the Insight line of productshttps://www.netgear.com/business/management/insight-app.aspx#tab-overview

 

Message 1 of 10
DavidFloor
Aspirant

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking

I have a need for 1 kilobyte of data per day transmitted and received by an IoT device thru a cable modem and 3 channel router all located in a piece of equipment.   It has to be wide temperature range 0C to 50C, small and hopefully low cost.   Looking at volumes of 2500 pcs per year.   Whats Netgear's best solution?

 

 

Message 2 of 10
bitcuration
Aspirant

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking

With IoT gained popularity day by day, I'm looking for way to isolate my 20-30 IoT devices from home network, including amazon alexa to google mini, and the number is growing.  Although I've managed to use pfsense (gateway router/dns/dhcp) and a netgear managed switch to create sepearte vlan but there is no single wifi router/AP that can handle more than one subnet each with own SSID, albeit guest network.  I now have to use different wifi routers/mesh for different wifi SSID and vlan to isolate IoT.  While waiting my newly ordered Orbi (RBK50 and RBK23) to arrive, I'm hoping netgear has seen this opportunity and add the ability to support multiple vlan in Orbi so I don't have maintain an army of wifi routers/AP mesh in house in order to keep a handful of vlan/subnet seperated. Note this is not to be confused with the current Orbi vlan setup which is used to bypass NAT for IPTV.  What's missing is the multiple subnet LAN vlan over the same mesh and broadcast seaprate SSID each for one vlan.  The Orbi can be in AP mode with extra router to manage the dns/dhcp for multiple vlan.

 

The other feature related to IoT is TP-Link's recent Deco M9 relase bring with it built-in zigbee/z-wave support.  This allows me to eliminate smartthings all together.  In all, the wifi router/AP mesh currently are in demand of a number of features that falled short in the product on market.  Otherwise I'll just keep searching...

 
 
 
Message 3 of 10
bitcuration
Aspirant

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking

I came to here raising this reqeust after searched this feature and led to this post, unfortuantely seems no avail.

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-Pro-WiFi-for-Small-Business/Does-Orbo-Pro-suport-Vlan/m-p/1510...

 
 
Message 4 of 10
schumaku
Guru

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking


@bitcuration wrote:

Although I've managed to use pfsense (gateway router/dns/dhcp) and a netgear managed switch to create sepearte vlan but there is no single wifi router/AP that can handle more than one subnet each with own SSID, albeit guest network.


Check out the very inexpensive Netgear WAC505, available in single units and mulit-packs, PoE (power supply optional, use a PoE switch). These are 802.11ac Wave 2 systems, 867Mbit/300Mbit "only" (the WAC510 is Wave 2, 867Mbit/. Ideal for set-up lots of smaller cells, VLAN and mutli-SSID support, in combination with Insight GC PoE switches or other VLAN capable switches and firewalls of course. 

However, the BR500 router - is not what I had expected, ways off to fit the Insight switch and Insight WAC - odd hardware design for rack mounting, it does not support the 256 VLANs form the specs, does not support VLAN tagging, does only support four VLAN and DHCP subnet server on a dedicated untagged port each. Instead of implementing a good SMB router, they abuse the consumer router platform (which is in my opinion outdated and prone to massive issues - see the Nigthhawk product line as well as various issues and quesitons on Orbi and Orbi Pro). For a reason experienced users _are_ asking for VLAN support.

Last, we're still waiting for the long time promised Insight manageable "full" 802.11ac Wave 2 WAC - with the coming up Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) it's overdue.

And very last - a lot of work to be done on the Insight and Insight Pro when it comes to identities vs. roles, broken tables, broken notification views, ... instead of addressing problems new issues are invented with each update. Your controls @johngm please.

Message 5 of 10
c3po
NETGEAR Expert

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking

Hi @schumaku

 

Thanks for your comments. Regarding BR500 VLAN support, it does support more VLAN in GUI. The 4 VLAN with subnet support is only limited in Insight. If 4 subnets is not enough for BR500 intended users, we can consider to raise the limit. Also BR500 does support tagged and untagged VLAN, PVID as well.

 

c3po

Message 6 of 10
schumaku
Guru

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking


@c3po wrote:

Regarding BR500 VLAN support, it does support more VLAN in GUI. The 4 VLAN with subnet support is only limited in Insight. If 4 subnets is not enough for BR500 intended users, we can consider to raise the limit. Also BR500 does support tagged and untagged VLAN, PVID as well.


Of course four can't be sufficient - not aware that Insight has such a limitation for VLANs in general, so it does make even less sense. And then it can support also 256 DHCP servers? And what about NAT modes for 1:1 and addtional M:1 for all the 256 VLAN? So it can handle multiple tagged VLAN on a single GbE port? Amazing how different information we get from Netgear on this subject. 

 

The BR500 documentation does only talk of 

===

Port-based VLAN concepts
The router supports port-based VLANs. Port-based VLANs help to confine broadcast traffic to the LAN ports. ...

===

No word of tagging, 802.1q mode, ...

Message 7 of 10
c3po
NETGEAR Expert

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking

There is a practical reason why BR500 limits subnets to 4. Instant VPN is one of its main project goal. With instant VPN, site to site VPN is achieved by adding BR500 to VPN group, all sites are fully meshed, meaning any subnet at any site can access any other subnet at other sites(admin can restrict some access using traffic rules). The routing complexity increases exponentially with subnets number at each site. 4 or 8 would be very reasonable choice for BR500 scope.
BR500 web GUI can assign a port to multiple VLAN, so for more complex VLAN settings, admin needs to do it in GUI currently.
Message 8 of 10
schumaku
Guru

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking


@c3po wrote:
There is a practical reason why BR500 limits subnets to 4. Instant VPN is one of its main project goal.

Wherever this idea is coming from. I expect what supposed to be a business router being flexible, matching the capabilities of the Insight Switch and the Insight WAP. 

 

The specifications talk of 256 VLAN.

 

@c3po wrote:
With instant VPN, site to site VPN is achieved by adding BR500 to VPN group, all sites are fully meshed, meaning any subnet at any site can access any other subnet at other sites(admin can restrict some access using traffic rules).

This is called routing in common networking terms.

 

Interestingly, we can't find any definition on how the VLAN LAN subnet must be configured to work with many VPN group sites. Is there any assistance helping the admin to ensure unique, non-overlapping subnets? 

 

@c3po wrote:
The routing complexity increases exponentially with subnets number at each site. 4 or 8 would be very reasonable choice for BR500 scope.
BR500 web GUI can assign a port to multiple VLAN, so for more complex VLAN settings, admin needs to do it in GUI currently.

Again, for the records, the specs say 256 VLAN. Neither four, and no idea from where this number eight is thron into the discussion.

 

And a customers - like the people I'm helping with your BR500 product - expect 256 VLAN with dedicated IP services. Can we configure additional VLAN and have the subnet configured and a DHCP server in place in the router GUI?

 

Message 9 of 10
schumaku
Guru

Re: IoT (finally) comes to networking

Will the Insight platform update scheduled for these hours change anything on these odd limitation of the BR500 product?

Message 10 of 10
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