Netgear D7000 Modem Only -> Nighthawk X6 - No internet Connection on Sky UK

[Destructability]

Good day All,

As my searches and trial and error attempts have not gone well, I was hoping I may be able to get an assist on a setup I am working on.

Recently my native Sky routers have not been doing the job (5 returns/swaps so far due to peculiar signal loss etc), so I looked into swapping the equipment for something more stable and chose Netgear.

As most are aware Sky Broadband UK are awkward and use MER, I have already setup the D7000 with these settings and was able to get internet, tested and fully working. I then put the device in modem only mode and rebooted, internet stays white lit per manual.

I then attached the LAN Port 1 to the Internet port of the X6 which to my knowledge should then pass this already decrypted internet signal from the D7000 to the X6, however the light stays orange on the X6 with no internet connection.

Following this, I thought perhaps the X6 would need to be in AP mode, however this does nothing to change the issue.

Can anyone offer any suggestions?

[Destructability · Accepted solution]

---

@antinode wrote:

> Sky Broadband UK does not use PPPoA or PPPoE, it uses a unique
> frustrating method of MER (DHCP Option 61). [...]

   Ok.  I have (at least) a dim recollection of having heard of "Option
61".  Around here, that option appears in the D7000 "Internet"
configuration only when "Does your Internet connection require a login?"
= "No", hence your "enter generic login string" description was
confusing.

   Because "Option 61" is a DHCP (WAN-side) parameter, I wouldn't expect
it to be an impassable barrier, but the router would need to support it.
Apparently, the router in the D7000 does, but, from its User Manual,
it's not obvious that the R8000 does.  A quick Web search for:
      netgear  "option 61"
found one hopeful item (for an R9000):

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/td-p/1850002

More searching might find more.  Or, if you have been specifying "Does
your Internet connection require a login?" = "Yes", then changing that
setting to "No" might reveal the desired "Option 61" field.

> [...] the Sky Model 203 cannot be only a modem (nor can many features
> be disabled to make it 'dumb').

   Ok.

> In access point mode, would I lose the monitoring and special features
> of the X6? [...]

   Here's a list of features which are disabled in a router-as-WAP:

      https://kb.netgear.com/26765

   So, the summary appears to be that you have two basic options:

   1. Either the Sky-supplied modem+router or the D7000 could be used as
a modem+router, in which case a WAP could provide better wireless.

   2. The D7000 could be used as a modem-only, in which case your
(external) router would need to handle the "Option 61" parameter.  If
you can find that option in the R8000 BASIC > Internet stuff (presumably
with "[...] require a login?" = "No"), then it seems plausible (to me)
that that scheme could work.

   Lest you believe that the D7000 has no drawbacks of its own:

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/m-p/1706952

That's with the D7000-as-modem+router. Perhaps modem-only mode would
put less strain on its (lame) firmware.  (Or the third-party firmware
suggested there might help.)

---

Thank you for all your help @antinode 

After attempting to get Option 61 on the R8000 and finding it not possible with default firmware, I started again.

When looking into your links it spurred me to go in a different direction and it looks like I have found a way to do what I wanted to do, whilst including the Sky Model 203 Modem/Router, avoiding the potential issues that you highlighted of the D7000, by utilising DMZ to avoid the double NAT/two router issues.

Setup is now: VDSL Cable -> Sky Modem/Router SR203 (DMZ enabled and Wireless Turned Off) -> Ethernet Cable -> Internet Port of Nighthawk R8000 Firmware V1.0.4.58_10.1.72 (Static IP set to DMZ address of Sky SR203, OpenDNS DNS settings, IPv6 Pass Through)

Have checked and this results in only a single NAT (Open on Xbox, Type 2 on PS4), access to IPv6, increased signal strength in the living room and I still have access to the Nighthawk via the app which I would have lost with custom firmware. Overall very happy.

I have attached the DMZ guide I followed for anyone who stumbles upon this with similar issues, it is old and for a different router brand but works just the same for Netgear and modern Sky Modem/Router Combos.

[antinode]

> Model: D7000|Nighthawk AC1900 VDSL/ADSL Modem Router, [...]

   D7000[v1] or a D7000v2?  Look for "Model" on the product label.
Firmware version?

> [...] my native Sky routers [...]

   Not a very detailed description of anything.

> [...] I have already setup the D7000 with these settings and was able
> to get internet, tested and fully working. [...]

   "setup" how, exactly?  Does the DSL connection use PPPoA or PPPoE?
If PPPoE, then you'd need to configure the PPP credentials on the router
(R8000) when the D7000[vX] router is disabled.

   And you configured the R8000 how, exactly?

   Visit http://netgear.com/support , put in your (router) model number,
and look for Documentation.  Get the User Manual.  Read.  Look for
"Specify an Internet Connection That Uses a Login".

> Following this, I thought perhaps the X6 would need to be in AP mode,
> however this does nothing to change the issue.

   Not using anything as a (NAT) router is a singularly poor idea.

[Destructability]

---

@antinode wrote:

> Model: D7000|Nighthawk AC1900 VDSL/ADSL Modem Router, [...]

   D7000[v1] or a D7000v2?  Look for "Model" on the product label.
Firmware version?

> [...] my native Sky routers [...]

   Not a very detailed description of anything.

> [...] I have already setup the D7000 with these settings and was able
> to get internet, tested and fully working. [...]

   "setup" how, exactly?  Does the DSL connection use PPPoA or PPPoE?
If PPPoE, then you'd need to configure the PPP credentials on the router
(R8000) when the D7000[vX] router is disabled.

   And you configured the R8000 how, exactly?

   Visit http://netgear.com/support , put in your (router) model number,
and look for Documentation.  Get the User Manual.  Read.  Look for
"Specify an Internet Connection That Uses a Login".

> Following this, I thought perhaps the X6 would need to be in AP mode,
> however this does nothing to change the issue.

   Not using anything as a (NAT) router is a singularly poor idea.

---

Apologies, I am new to troubleshooting the Netgear range as have previously not gone as in depth, while also sticking with another brand. So, I'm sorry if my description was unhelpful, I will flesh it out below with your suggestions.

Router/Modem: Netgear D7000-100UKS - Label Identifier is D7000 - Firmware 1.0.1.78

Router: Netgear X6 R8000 - Firmware 1.0.4.56

Native Original Sky Router: Sky Q Modem and Router (Returned)

Replacement Received via 'speed promise': Sky Model SR203 Modem Router (Range not sufficient, reason of swap attempt to Netgear)

Building Type: UK Flat, semi-new build, average/thin walls, 2 walls separate bedroom to living room where dropouts occur irregularly

Internet Connection: Sky Broadband Superfast 70/20

Original Setup: Wall connection supporting Sky Broadband Superfast on Sky Model 203 Modem/Router Combo

Issue: Speed consistent on speed tests but dropouts present, cannot internally stream games to other devices e.g. Xbox to PC, PS4 to PC

Proposed Setup (from your description perhaps not possible): Wall Connection to D7000 setup in modem only (I thought this would emulate a supply of an unrestricted internet connection but couldn't get clarity from the user manual), CAT6 from D7000 into Internet socket on X6 R8000 to handle all regular router functions.

Setup Process: Connect to D7000 via Wifi, manual setup, Select UK and Sky, click advanced options and select VDSL, enter generic login string (randomuser@skydsl|password), internet connected and front light turns white, test internet via browser and able to access web at the same speed as native SKY Model 203.

Went to setup and changed the settings to Modem only, wireless switches off and internet connection stays on (white LED).

Plug in the X6 to power and attach other end of CAT6 to internet socket, all lights on however no internet connection (internet connection LED is orange)

Putting to AP mode was just a last-ditch test to see if it recognised the cable from the D7000 in modem mode, I was not clear that this was not to be a final solution.

From your comments it looks like I was just very wrong in my assumption. I assume that if I want to not use a custom firmware (I like the nighthawk mobile application and straight forward interface) that I will not be able to incorporate the X6 into my current setup due to Sky needing MER and only the D7000 part of this chain supports that natively?

As the X6 router works piggy backing the Sky 203 (not what I will implement due to double NAT etc), is it possible to turn off the management features of the D7000 (disable wireless etc) leaving it in Modem/Router form and having it hand the duties to the X6 plugged into it via CAT6?

[antinode]

>    "setup" how, exactly?  Does the DSL connection use PPPoA or PPPoE?
> If PPPoE, then you'd need to configure the PPP credentials on the router
> (R8000) when the D7000[vX] router is disabled.

   Still a mystery.

> Proposed Setup (from your description perhaps not possible): Wall
> Connection to D7000 setup in modem only (I thought this would emulate a
> supply of an unrestricted internet connection but couldn't get clarity
> from the user manual), CAT6 from D7000 into Internet socket on X6 R8000
> to handle all regular router functions.

   "Wall Connection" is a DSL line?  I don't know what "an unrestricted
internet connection" means to you.

   You claimed that you got "internet, tested and fully working" with
the D7000 in modem+router mode.  Was its wireless still inadequate?  If
so, then I would not bet that replacing its router (and wireless)
section with the R8000 would work much better.

> [...] select VDSL, enter generic login string
> (randomuser@skydsl|password), [...]

   Was there an "Encapsulation" option there?

> Plug in the X6 to power and attach other end of CAT6 to internet
> socket, [...]

   "other" than what?  Ethernet cables typically have two ends.  Was the
first end connected to a LAN Ethernet port on the D7000?  (I'd pick
"1".)

> [...] I assume that if I want to not use a custom firmware (I like the
> nighthawk mobile application and straight forward interface) [...]

   I don't see how any app would help.

> [...] that I will not be able to incorporate the X6 into my current
> setup due to Sky needing MER and only the D7000 part of this chain
> supports that natively?

   Knowing nothing about MER, I might guess that it's a DSL modem
question, not a router question.  But, if it's anything like PPPoA, then
it might require a more intimate connection between the modem and router
than you can get with modem-only mode on the D7000 and a separate
router.

   If that's true, and if the D7000-as-modem+router works, then it might
make some sense to use the D7000 that way, and, if desired, add the
R8000 as a wireless access point.

> [...] is it possible to turn off the management features of the D7000
> (disable wireless etc) leaving it in Modem/Router form and having it
> hand the duties to the X6 plugged into it via CAT6?

   That depends on _which_ "duties" you mean.  If the router in the
D7000 is active, then you probably don't want the R8000 also to act as a
router, but configuring the R8000 as a WAP should be ok.  If you can run
an Ethernet cable between the D7000 and the R8000 with some separation
between those two gizmos, then it might make sense to leave both sets of
wireless-network radios active (to serve different parts of the
building).

   However, if the original complaint with the Sky-supplied modem+router
was poor wireless coverage, then it might also make sense to use that
modem+router with the R8000-as-WAP, and, perhaps, disable its own
wireless radios.  If the D7000 does not do the whole job on its own,
then it's not immediately clear to me what it brings to your party.

   In the R8000 User Manual, look for "Use the Router as a Wireless
Access Point".

[Destructability]

Thank you again for the reply and your patience.

Sky Broadband UK does not use PPPoA or PPPoE, it uses a unique frustrating method of MER (DHCP Option 61). The D7000 was setup using this as it has that option.

I am unsure as to whether the D7000 would suit my needs signal strength wise or not, however the X6 seemed to be from user reviews and specs an powerhouse of a unit, so wanted to setup everything in one go rather than chopping and changing the solution. However, it is looking like that may be the best option.

The wall connection is indeed a VDSL line, Sky utilise FTTC so it isn't true fibre.

I have the D7000 almost entirely for the Modem function, though from your advice it may be worth dropping the idea of the X6 and using the D7000 in Modem/Router mode. I originally looked at the Netgear DM200 for the Modem function however I couldn't find one new or local to pickup at a reasonable price, I could with the D7000.

Previously I have been told that the modem acts to decrypt/translate(wording) the signal sent via the phone line into something readable by a router and home devices. So I had hoped that utilising the in-built modem of the D7000 in modem only mode, connecting one end of a CAT6 into LAN Port 1 and then the other end into the Internet port of the X6 would allow the X6 to work as the primary router (similar to how a BT Openreach modem goes into BT Home Hub etc). This unmanaged, no firewall etc connection is what I would consider to be 'unrestricted'.

The reason I brought up the Nighthawk App is the only way I know to get the ability to enter DHCP Option 61 into an X6 is with custom firmware (DD-WRT etc), which does not work with the iOS/Android Nighthawk Application which is very tidy and gives my partner with less patience some control too. I'm sorry if that was confusingly worded the first time.

My reference to the hand off of the duties is that most agree that having two managers on a network (two fully working routers) will result in issues, I and my partner game regularly so NAT issues can be a problem when the routers are daisy chained, so I thought if there was a simple way (or multiple steps) to turn off the extra features that were not necessary to getting an ethernet web connection from one of the ports of the D7000 to the X6 then perhaps that could be a jury-rigged solution till I can leave Sky again.

Your point before last of what the D7000 brings to the equation is the modem function, as the X6 has no such capability and the Sky Model 203 cannot be only a modem (nor can many features be disabled to make it 'dumb').

In access point mode, would I lose the monitoring and special features of the X6? I believe I saw a warning about that previously.

The R8000 has always been something that made me 'Wow' when I saw it, so I am just hoping I can add it into the equation as I was very happy that I got a deal on one, as I feel there should be no need to replace it for a long time (being able to move the network with me).

[antinode]

> Sky Broadband UK does not use PPPoA or PPPoE, it uses a unique
> frustrating method of MER (DHCP Option 61). [...]

   Ok.  I have (at least) a dim recollection of having heard of "Option
61".  Around here, that option appears in the D7000 "Internet"
configuration only when "Does your Internet connection require a login?"
= "No", hence your "enter generic login string" description was
confusing.

   Because "Option 61" is a DHCP (WAN-side) parameter, I wouldn't expect
it to be an impassable barrier, but the router would need to support it.
Apparently, the router in the D7000 does, but, from its User Manual,
it's not obvious that the R8000 does.  A quick Web search for:
      netgear  "option 61"
found one hopeful item (for an R9000):

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/td-p/1850002

More searching might find more.  Or, if you have been specifying "Does
your Internet connection require a login?" = "Yes", then changing that
setting to "No" might reveal the desired "Option 61" field.

> [...] the Sky Model 203 cannot be only a modem (nor can many features
> be disabled to make it 'dumb').

   Ok.

> In access point mode, would I lose the monitoring and special features
> of the X6? [...]

   Here's a list of features which are disabled in a router-as-WAP:

      https://kb.netgear.com/26765

   So, the summary appears to be that you have two basic options:

   1. Either the Sky-supplied modem+router or the D7000 could be used as
a modem+router, in which case a WAP could provide better wireless.

   2. The D7000 could be used as a modem-only, in which case your
(external) router would need to handle the "Option 61" parameter.  If
you can find that option in the R8000 BASIC > Internet stuff (presumably
with "[...] require a login?" = "No"), then it seems plausible (to me)
that that scheme could work.

   Lest you believe that the D7000 has no drawbacks of its own:

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/m-p/1706952

That's with the D7000-as-modem+router. Perhaps modem-only mode would
put less strain on its (lame) firmware.  (Or the third-party firmware
suggested there might help.)

[Destructability · Accepted solution]

---

@antinode wrote:

> Sky Broadband UK does not use PPPoA or PPPoE, it uses a unique
> frustrating method of MER (DHCP Option 61). [...]

   Ok.  I have (at least) a dim recollection of having heard of "Option
61".  Around here, that option appears in the D7000 "Internet"
configuration only when "Does your Internet connection require a login?"
= "No", hence your "enter generic login string" description was
confusing.

   Because "Option 61" is a DHCP (WAN-side) parameter, I wouldn't expect
it to be an impassable barrier, but the router would need to support it.
Apparently, the router in the D7000 does, but, from its User Manual,
it's not obvious that the R8000 does.  A quick Web search for:
      netgear  "option 61"
found one hopeful item (for an R9000):

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/td-p/1850002

More searching might find more.  Or, if you have been specifying "Does
your Internet connection require a login?" = "Yes", then changing that
setting to "No" might reveal the desired "Option 61" field.

> [...] the Sky Model 203 cannot be only a modem (nor can many features
> be disabled to make it 'dumb').

   Ok.

> In access point mode, would I lose the monitoring and special features
> of the X6? [...]

   Here's a list of features which are disabled in a router-as-WAP:

      https://kb.netgear.com/26765

   So, the summary appears to be that you have two basic options:

   1. Either the Sky-supplied modem+router or the D7000 could be used as
a modem+router, in which case a WAP could provide better wireless.

   2. The D7000 could be used as a modem-only, in which case your
(external) router would need to handle the "Option 61" parameter.  If
you can find that option in the R8000 BASIC > Internet stuff (presumably
with "[...] require a login?" = "No"), then it seems plausible (to me)
that that scheme could work.

   Lest you believe that the D7000 has no drawbacks of its own:

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/m-p/1706952

That's with the D7000-as-modem+router. Perhaps modem-only mode would
put less strain on its (lame) firmware.  (Or the third-party firmware
suggested there might help.)

---

Thank you for all your help @antinode 

After attempting to get Option 61 on the R8000 and finding it not possible with default firmware, I started again.

When looking into your links it spurred me to go in a different direction and it looks like I have found a way to do what I wanted to do, whilst including the Sky Model 203 Modem/Router, avoiding the potential issues that you highlighted of the D7000, by utilising DMZ to avoid the double NAT/two router issues.

Setup is now: VDSL Cable -> Sky Modem/Router SR203 (DMZ enabled and Wireless Turned Off) -> Ethernet Cable -> Internet Port of Nighthawk R8000 Firmware V1.0.4.58_10.1.72 (Static IP set to DMZ address of Sky SR203, OpenDNS DNS settings, IPv6 Pass Through)

Have checked and this results in only a single NAT (Open on Xbox, Type 2 on PS4), access to IPv6, increased signal strength in the living room and I still have access to the Nighthawk via the app which I would have lost with custom firmware. Overall very happy.

I have attached the DMZ guide I followed for anyone who stumbles upon this with similar issues, it is old and for a different router brand but works just the same for Netgear and modern Sky Modem/Router Combos.