Re: Nighthawk D7000 2.4Ghz WiFi issues

johnmcl7 · ‎2018-01-17

@GlennD wrote:
I wish each contributor to this blog would start with what version of firmware they are currently and how long have they been on it It's hard to sort out where everybody is at if we don't know what version they are running. I would like to know how many folks are using the ver. 58 beta firmware for any length of time without any issues.
I am on ver. 1.0.1.48, no 2.4 GHZ or USB printing but my 5GHZ is rock solid, I am reluctant to update to V 58 since there are so many mixed results with it.

At the moment, I'm not sure the firmware version matter that much - earlier on, people had tried downgrading to 38 and 48 but were still seeing the same issues as those on later firmwares up to v54. The only firmware that seems to matter at the moment is 58.

For reference though, I'm on v54 and have been since it was released, I was on v52 before that and I think v48 when the problem started in December. I've had the same problem on all the firmwares where after some time, no 2.4Ghz devices can connect but the internet connection, 5Ghz wireless and wired ethernet continue to work fine. I've since disabled 2.4Ghz wireless and using a temporary separate wireless access point.

I do have a few Google devices on the network, specifically two Chromecast v1's, one Chromecast v2, four Android v7 devices (Galaxy Note 8, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy Tab A 10in and Galaxy Tab S2 8in) and a Samsung TV that supports casting although I don't think it's been updated. I'm hoping we'll see more information from Google shortly now that this issue has hit the news which will offer more clarification on it as there's too much guesswork on that side.

Brum80 · ‎2018-01-17

I've been running beta FW 58 for exactly a week with no noticeable issues. I have now been asked by Netgear to test another beta release, version 62. Matt Chang states "This include Broadcom path to fix some google device broadcast problem." Chromecast users may find this article interesting http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/15/router_vendors_update_firmware_to_protect_against_google_chr...

michaelkenward · ‎2018-01-17

Interesting link. Thanks.

UPDATE: The Register understands that Google has admitted to the flaw, said it impacts a "small number" of users, and committed to providing a fix in short order.

All of them seem to be here.

That is the first time I have seen an explanation that makes much sense.

The comments make entertaining reading.

LudwigVonMises · ‎2018-01-17

Seems this is all without a doubt problems caused by Google. During all of 2017 I was on FW .48 in Argentina with a garbage 10 Mega DSL connection with no issues, with the following devices:

Sony 55XBR-x855D (Android 6 with Chromecast built-in) - Ethernet
Samsung TV (a cheapo from a few years ago - can't remember model number) - WiFi
Sony PlayStation 4 Pro - Ethernet
Sony PlayStation 4 - WiFi
Sony PlayStation 3 - WiFi
Roku Express - WiFi
2 Samsung tablets (Android 4) - WiFi
BLU R1 HD (Android 6) - WiFi
Huawei Mate 2 (Android 4) - WiFi
System 76 Laptop (Ubuntu) - WiFi
Samsung Series 7 Laptop (Ubuntu) - WiFi
Occasional guests at home causing up to five or six more Android phones to be connected in addition to the above

All WiFi devices were on 2.4GHz

Now we just got back from a trip to the US last week and came back with a Huawei Mate 9 (Android 7) and a Sony Xperia XZ (Android 😎 and almost immediately the problems with 2.4GHz WiFi dropping out began. After a couple days of head-scratching I jumped into admin and saw that FW .54 was available. I upgraded, thinking that it must have been the outdated firmware. But the problems still persist. That's when I found this thread. Now that Google has admitted it I guess there's nothing we can do but wait for a patch from Netgear and a permanent solution from Google.

Given the fact that my network worked fine with Chromecast built-in to my TV last year, I guess the issue is coming from the way our new smartphones are interacting with the TVs Chromecast.

Waiting patiently for a fix. I know my post has no solutions and doesn't offer anything new, but I guess if Netgear engineers can see as much info as possible it will help them as they find a workaround.

weeman247 · ‎2018-01-17

I tested the beta firmware and it's lasted a few hours. Then my smart plugs and laptop all on 2.4 disconnected and only a reboot would fix it. I don't have chromecast.
I switched provider on Monday and used their 'free' router modem and not one single drop off.

i-s · ‎2018-01-17

Right.

Although the root cause may be the Google devices transmitting the MDNS packets, the FACT remains that with no other changes to our network the AVM Fritz 3490 is completely stable while the D7000 was not. In other words, the AVM can cope with the MDNS traffic while the D7000 (and apparently routers from TP-Link and others) are "vulnerable".

However, I'm no longer concerned. We had the D7000 before the AVM turned up (supplied when we changed provider) and this incident prompted me to put the AVM into the network and discover that it is better. I'll sell the D7000 to recoup something AND enjoy better networking, without waiting. No consolation to those afflicted by this, but it's disingenous of Netgear to put the blame wholly on Google.

johnmcl7 · ‎2018-01-17

Google have announced their fix is coming tomorrow:

https://support.google.com/googlehome/answer/7634752?hl=en&ref_topic=7071995

It's a bit vague about the affected devices but it seems to be both Chromecast and Android phones.

LudwigVonMises · ‎2018-01-17

@johnmcl7 wrote:
Google have announced their fix is coming tomorrow:

https://support.google.com/googlehome/answer/7634752?hl=en&ref_topic=7071995

It's a bit vague about the affected devices but it seems to be both Chromecast and Android phones.

Well that would confirm that my new Android phones are what are causing mayhem. As you can see in my post above everything was fine until introducing an Android 7 and Android 8 device to the network.

michaelkenward · ‎2018-01-17

Delightful bit of buck passing there.

ln the meantime, try rebooting your Android phone, and check that your Wi-Fi router is running the most recent firmware version.

People wouldn't need the "the most recent firmware version" if Google hadn't broken the thing in the first place.

killscreen · ‎2018-01-17

Shows the vulnerability of this router if it can't protect itself from MDNS flooding.

Retired_Member · ‎2018-01-17

Definitely android phones. We don't run chromecast, but definitely android phones will cause problems.

(v 38)

SAWS · ‎2018-01-17

Hmmm. That has not been my experience. I've been using Android phones with my D7000 (v1.0.1.44) for almost 2 years with no problems until about the time I introduced the Chromecast Ultra. And it seemed fine last night and this morning with my Android phone after disabling the Chromecast and deleting the Google Home app.

johnmcl7 · ‎2018-01-17

@Case850 wrote:
These broadcast storm incidents are not uncommon, for some people on these forums it is probably the first time it has impacted them directly. The industry has been dealing with these type of issues since the early eighties when LAN technology became popular. The nature of the beast says it will happen again. It may impact routers not impacted this time, if I had my crystal ball I could tell you.

There is one way to make sure it will never happen again and that is to go back to IBM Mainframes, SNA controllers and 3270 terminals. Who needs PCs, Macs, smart phones, video streaming, email, social media? Surely not anyone on these forums?

I don't agree this type of incident is uncommon, I can't recall any other similar incident in the years I've worked in networking (aside from faulty individual network cards) to the degree that a portion of the router was shut down entirely. Even in this case, it's a very specific combination of both Google hardware and certain router chipsets, it's a pretty stupid mistake from Google and an oversight from Netgear and other router manufacturers but it's not a common issue at all. The replacement access point I'm using works fine on the same network, even the cheapie ISP router works fine with just the D7000 having the issue.

The issue should hopefully be resolved by both Google and Netgear within the next week and I don't expect to see it again in this environment.

johnmcl7 · ‎2018-01-18

@Case850 wrote:
@johnmcl7, Have you ever worked on a Spanning Tree bridged WAN? That was the reason companies like cisco, Wellfleet, NSC came into existence.

Many incidents are never publicly reported for "security reasons", financial(stock price), or the embarrassment that it causes.

Yes, I work as part of IT for a large company and most of our infrastructure is Cisco. If we had a network outage like this and I shrugged my shoulders and told them, tough this sort of thing just happens I'd have been fired on the spot.

As I already explained, this is a very specific issue that only affects a certain combination of products which makes it very rare indeed as for most people this is a non-issue and they can carry on as normal with their wireless networks. Your implication was that home users cannot expect to use wireless networks with a variety of devices without expecting outages like this from time to time which simply isn't true, while I disagree about industries hiding their problems (theregister would certainly disagree and probably have a good laugh at such a comment) this couldn't be hidden as a consumer issue.

Regardless of all that, as someone with a good few years major IT experience I don't just accept that these things happen, Google have made a spectacular blunder which they've been slow to respond to as have Netgear. The irony of it all is that the cheapy ISP router supplied with my home connection isn't affected by this issue nor are most other wireless devices. I don't see how that attitude is beneficial in resolving the issue either.

farthing · ‎2018-01-18

I updated to the beta firmaware Monday morning, my time.

It's now been 5 days, almost exactly and not a single problem so far.

As for the Google stuff, I can't say I've seen it affect my network much, if at all. I have had a chromecast dongle for quite some time and bought a TV with a builtin a couple of months prior to the issue arrising.

Also there are 4 Andriod phones, 1 Apple, 3 PC Laptops, 1 Mac, 2 iPads and a couple of other devices on the network.

Just my specific case.

SAWS · ‎2018-01-18

Much to my disappointment, but not surprise, my 2.4Ghz wifi was again unavailable to at least some devices on my network this morning. It was working for about 24hrs of working after I disabled my Chromecast and uninstalled Google Home from my Android phone. I'm on FW v1.0.1.44. Looking forward to the release of the FW that fixes the base issue with the D7000.

michaelkenward · ‎2018-01-18

@SAWS wrote:

Looking forward to the release of the FW that fixes the base issue with the D7000.

That's not where the problem lies. Check for updates to your Google/Android/Chromecast hardware.

Netgear, and all the other hardware makers clobbered, can only act on what Google tells them. Sadly, it has taken Google quite some time to own up to this disaster.

I would suggest doing a Google search, but perhaps it has suppressed news of this fiasco. So, try Bing.

SAWS · ‎2018-01-18

@michaelkenward wrote:
@SAWS wrote:

Looking forward to the release of the FW that fixes the base issue with the D7000.

That's not where the problem lies. Check for updates to your Google/Android/Chromecast hardware.

It seems to me that Netgear has a problem that is independent of the Google problem. Not everyone with a D7000 who's having problems has Google products, and my D7000 resumed acting up after all suspect Google products were taken off the network. I've read elsewhere that the issue with the D7000 is related to a Broadcom chipset in the router/modem. I'm no expert, so my understanding may be lacking.

michaelkenward · ‎2018-01-18

@SAWS wrote:
I've read elsewhere that the issue with the D7000 is related to a Broadcom chipset in the router/modem. I'm no expert, so my understanding may be lacking.

I don't know where elsewhere might be, but I suspect that you are right.

Then again, according to "elsewhere", the D7000v2 has an Intel chip and also got hit.

It may be no coincidence that this saga coincided with attempts to squelch the KRACK bug.

But did your exclusion of "all Google products" mean that you haven't had any Android devices anywhere near your wifi?

The way forward is probably to sort out the Google meltdown and then to see if there are still things that need mending.

w3wilkes · ‎2018-01-18

@Case850said; There is one way to make sure it will never happen again and that is to go back to IBM Mainframes, SNA controllers and 3270 terminals. Who needs PCs, Macs, smart phones, video streaming, email, social media? Surely not anyone on these forums?

Most of the large shops I've worked in migrated the majority of their networks to TCP/IP from SNA decades ago. 3270 application access was moved to TN3270 using stuff like Hummingbird on PC's. This allowed for multiple applications to be accessed concurrently or multiple TSO sessions on different LPARs from the same PC. IBM even added support for local consoles to be TCP/IP attached almost a decade ago. I agree that from a Reliability / Availability and Security standpoint the IBM mainframe running z/OS can't be beat. When RACF was switched in the early years to "always call" it made the mainframe almost impenatrable.

browntea · ‎2018-01-18

Re: "my 2.4Ghz wifi was again unavailable to at least some devices on my network this morning. It was working for about 24hrs of working after I disabled my Chromecast and uninstalled Google Home from my Android phone..."

Erm doesn't Chrome on Windows have Chromecast built in... has this been ruled out or in??

johnmcl7 · ‎2018-01-18

@SAWS wrote:
Much to my disappointment, but not surprise, my 2.4Ghz wifi was again unavailable to at least some devices on my network this morning. It was working for about 24hrs of working after I disabled my Chromecast and uninstalled Google Home from my Android phone. I'm on FW v1.0.1.44. Looking forward to the release of the FW that fixes the base issue with the D7000.

There's still not much information coming from Google but the claim on the Android reddit is that the update will be to the core Google Play Services application:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.gms

I've been keeping an eye on this for an updated version but no sign of one for me so far, still 4th January and 11.9.73 for me.

johnmcl7 · ‎2018-01-19

@johnmcl7 wrote:
@SAWS wrote:
Much to my disappointment, but not surprise, my 2.4Ghz wifi was again unavailable to at least some devices on my network this morning. It was working for about 24hrs of working after I disabled my Chromecast and uninstalled Google Home from my Android phone. I'm on FW v1.0.1.44. Looking forward to the release of the FW that fixes the base issue with the D7000.
There's still not much information coming from Google but the claim on the Android reddit is that the update will be to the core Google Play Services application:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.gms

I've been keeping an eye on this for an updated version but no sign of one for me so far, still 4th January and 11.9.73 for me.

Beta is up now:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/7re4yl/google_play_services_11974_beta_download/?st=jcly54...

ukoldgit · ‎2018-01-19

Just thought I'd add my thoughts as it would seem most started to experience problems with the 2.4ghz not working around December.

My D7000 is appx 16 months old.

My devices connecting are, ipads, iphones, android phones, laptops, PC's and wireless adapters. Most are on 5ghz but the ones that aren't really need to be on 2.4ghz

The 5ghz works fine but the 2.4ghz would stop working almost every 24 hours.

This started whilst using V1.0.1.48_1.0.1, I then updated to V1.0.1.54_1.0.1 which made no difference what so ever. Did the usual factory reset etc

I have now put the D7000 on a up turned desk tray which has lifted it about 4" off the desk to see if it was a heat problem, it actualy lasted 3 days and then the 2.4ghz started to stop working again every day.

It would seem from all the post I've read that it is a inherent problem across all firmware versions but I dont understand why it has triggered for people around the same time despite the different ages of the D7000.

I'm holding off binning the D7000 in the hope they will find out what the problem is.

Btw I'm in the UK

michaelkenward · ‎2018-01-19

@ukoldgit wrote:

....I dont understand why it has triggered for people around the same time despite the different ages of the D7000.

That one is easily answered by reading the rest of this discussion.

The wifi meltdown got triggered around the same time because Google caused the issue with an update to its systems.

Think of it this way, if Microsoft puts out a dodgy update for Windows, it will clobber equipment made my many different manufacturers. It will even hit your Netgear connected devices even though Netgear doesn't really use Windows.

That's what Google did. It put out a "patch" that hit many different manufacturers.