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Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

Xcapee
Star

What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

After spending a small fortune on what is supposed to be a high end home VDSL router, I am, to say the least, signifincantly underwhelmed. I'm incredibly disappointed a the lack of control this modem provides, but the main reason for this post is to ask "what kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?"

 

Seriously??

 

Does this pass for a useable app in 2017, for goodness sake?

 

The user interface is HIDEOUS! Perhaps the engineers wanted to party like it was 1995, but SURELY your customers who paid a not insubstantial amount of money for this device deserve better than this crap.

 

Could SOMEONE at Netgear, PLEASE drag your developers, kicking and screaming if necessary, into the second decade of the 21st century.

 

I'm VERY, VERY unimpressed

Message 1 of 10
antinode
Guru

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

> [...] "what kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?"

   Is it as lame as this complaint?  Which "Netgear genie"?  Which "high
end home VDSL router"?

> The user interface is HIDEOUS! [...]

   Define or elaborate on "HIDEOUS"?  Do you have some actual, concrete
complaint or suggestion to offer, or only a tantrum?

> I'm VERY, VERY unimpressed

   There's a lot of that going around these days.  Seriously.

Message 2 of 10
Xcapee
Star

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

Perhaps you've been living in a cave  for the last couple of decades, but user interfaces and usability have come a long way since the 1990s which this UI reeks ok. 

 

The app takes over 2 minutes to start on a very well equipped machine (4 cores, SSD storage, gigabit ethernet). The first time I ran it, I had to kill it after over five minutes of no response. I have far more complex apps that start in seconds. Even Microsoft's bloated office apps all start faster than this.

 

 

The window is non-resizable. Seriously? in 2017? So to see the forty or so devices in the nwtwork map on my 40" monitor, I have to click through pages and pages. No scroll, no zoom, no resize. Obviously those things (which you get for free in almost all native dev frameworks, and can do very easily in modern web apps) were too hard for the developers.

 

Honestly, that's just the beginning, but why bother elaborating any further, if it's not obvious to you? Clearly these aren't things that can be fixed through maintenance - it needs a complete knock down and rebuild with a millenial as the product manager who won't settle for crap.

 

Oh and the "high end router" is so new the model number doesn't show in the list. That's lame. (Sadly so is having to explain the obvious to luddites)

Message 3 of 10
antinode
Guru

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

> Perhaps you've been living in a cave [...]

   Perhaps figuratively.

> The app [...]

   I still wonder which "the app" you're describing.

   I normally use the Web interface with these devices, not any "the
app", so many things about any such "the app" might not be obvious to
me.

> [...] it needs a complete knock down and rebuild with a millenial as
> the product manager who won't settle for crap.

   "Crap" has many definitions.  In my experience, software design by
children can lead to it.

> Oh and the "high end router" is so new the model number doesn't show
> in the list. That's lame. [...]

   I don't understand.  Are you unable to read the model number, or are
you unable to write the model number, unless it's shown in a menu?

> (Sadly so is having to explain the obvious to luddites)

   I can see that.  I'm sorry to have bothered you.

Message 4 of 10
Xcapee
Star

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?


@antinode wrote:

I still wonder which "the app" you're describing.
I normally use the Web interface with these devices, not any "the app", so many things about any such "the app" might not be obvious to

me.

<sigh>

So why bother to comment at all? "the app" ought to be enough of a clue that I'm not referring to the web interface. Moreover, my description of "four cores" and "gigabit ethernet" should provide a clue that I'm referring to a desktop app not a mobile app. That then is a short google away to find What is the NETGEAR genie Desktop App? as the top link.

 

I don't understand.  Are you unable to read the model number, or are you unable to write the model number, unless it's shown in a menu?

<sigh>

And the router model number would help how exactly? I simply read the direction about including model version "where relevant" and complied. 

 

Message 5 of 10

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

Netgear certainly knows how to confuse us. Unfortunately, even "the app" is open to confusion. There is one for Android, one for iThings and the one that is a "desktop app". That too comes in different flavours for Windows and Macs. So that's at least five possible apps.

 

Talking about the genie, as in the subject of your message, is even more confusing, thanks to Netgear's use of the term to describe not just all of these apps but also the web interface. It is there, in big letters, at the top of every screen.

 

We ask people which app they have or genie they mean because they sometimes come here complaining about one thing and it turns out that it is something else. If someone turns up here seeking to help, then they have to provide as much information as possible.

 

That is also they you get asked for the details of the device they are using. Netgear tries to make this easy in its "header" hints:

 

Subject (Include model number and brief summary)
Model (Recommended - Helps the community give the best answers)
Body (Include additional detail including model version, firmware, OS and environment where relevant.)

Sorry to throw in another wrinkle, but sometimes people provide this information when they start to ask a question, but the forum software refuses to pass the details on to the rest of us. (We are "volunteers", fellow users, who do not have access to Netgear's behind-the-scenes stuff.) So it helps to put the details in the body of the message.

 

Why is this important? Because the workings of the app, the stuff that you see and control, depends on the model number and the version of the firmware you have installed.

 

Out of the box, there is a good chance that your device, especially a new model, will have old firmware. Updating it may change what you see in the genie.

 

Sadly, the look and feel won't change a lot. Many people complain about the 20th century feel of the thing – it is a common theme around here, especially in the general "ideas" but of the forum. This one from last year may appeal to you:

 

Update/Refresh Netgear Genie Program - NETGEAR Communities

 

Yes, as that also discussion says, the network map is a pain to navigate. It gets even worse if you throw in a few powerline plugs. But it does the job for most people so we put up with it

 

I realise that you haven't turned up here seeking help with a problem that needs fixing, so providing the model number probably isn't important. I'm just explaining why you may have been asked about that. It is just the normal first response to questions.

 

If you do run into issues, then you can help yourself to get quicker answers if you provide all that stuff that Netgear suggests.

 

By the way, if the desktop app takes 2 minutes to start in your PC, there may be something wrong with your installation. Here it takes a few seconds, but I gave up on SATA SSDs a while back and use the faster PCI-e variant, although I doubt if that will make much difference, I also get it to show in seconds on my spare PC with a slower SSD.

 

It is hard to know what might cause the slow startup at your end. We've seen problems here with people who have Microsoft's crummy LAN drivers rather than those written for their chipsets. Or you may have a variant of the old "cannot login to router issues", which would show up if you used the web interface. But that is just a wild guess on my part, based on knowing next to nothing about your network.

 

Good luck with the new bit of kit. Do come back with more details if you want to fix that slow app start. Best start a new conversation if you want Netgear's small team of resident experts to see it. They are probably too busy dealing with new issues to delve into the depths of older discussions about different topics.

 

Message 6 of 10
Xcapee
Star

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

Wow Michael, thanks for taking the time to write such a considered and lengthy explanation. I do completely understand, but I object to being trolled by someone telling me my complaint is lame. Yes it was a spleen vent. Sadly no one from Netgear will probably see it, but they seriously need to get their heads out of their backsides and get with the 21st century.

 

It's such a shame to pay good money for top of the line consumer product and find the vendor doesn't have a clue about writing software.

 

I'm an IT veteran of over 30 years, with patents in the networking space. I am very disappointed in the D8500 I have just purchased. There is very little control over actual networking constructs.

 

The java based desktop Genie app is as I already said hideous and a throw back to client server cross platform developments from the 90s. The fact that this is the only way to set up parental controls means one has no choice but to use it. 

 

 

Unfortunately this is not the sort of purchase you get the chance to test drive so you only find out the (many it seems) shortcomings after you have plunked down a fair bit of money.

 

Unfortunately it looks like the alternat firmware like Tomato doesn't appear to run on the D-series devices.

 

Oh, and the D8500 line syncs about 10Mbps slower than the modem it is replacing - that's a lot of lost bandwidth. Yet another reason to regret my purchase.

 

I had always held Netgear to be a pretty good brand. This one experience has seen them plumet in my esteem. I won't recommend them to anyone now, and I won't buy again. Pity no one from Netgear will read this.

Message 7 of 10

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

 


@Xcapee wrote:

Wow Michael, thanks for taking the time to write such a considered and lengthy explanation. I do completely understand, but I object to being trolled by someone telling me my complaint is lame.

 


Some people are like that. Not sure why they come here if all they want to do is be insulting.

 

As you can see from the other messages, you are not alone in complaining about the interface. I wouldn't want to defend Netgear, but I acknowledge that they have decades worth of old kit out there. You would know better than I do, but maybe they go too far in trying to write software that is "backward compatible".

 



The fact that this is the only way to set up parental controls means one has no choice but to use it. 

 

I'm not sure that this is really true. You can get in there with a direct link:

 

https://netgear.opendns.com/sign_in.php

 

Well hidden, I know, but an option.

 

In general I prefer the web interface over the genie, for some of the reasons you gave.

 



Unfortunately it looks like the alternat firmware like Tomato doesn't appear to run on the D-series devices.

Not so much "D series" as modem/routers. (In Netgear's inimitable style, all D series are modem.routers, but not all modem/routers are D series.) It seems that the "hackers" favour separating the modem and router and playing around with the router.

 

 

Oh, and the D8500 line syncs about 10Mbps slower than the modem it is replacing - that's a lot of lost bandwidth. Yet another reason to regret my purchase

Could this be a bedding in thing? On my ISP, BT in the UK, it can take a few days for the network to work out the best speed that it should use.

 

Before going over to another supplier, I'd check that they have a 21st century interface. Some areas of tech seem  to be remarkably slow in adapting.

 

 

Message 8 of 10
antinode
Guru

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

> So why bother to comment at all?

   I was hoping to learn what was so bad about whatever you were using,
but that seems to be a near-hopeless task.

> [...] desktop app [...]

   For some of us, "desktop" is not an alternate spelling of "Microsoft
Windows".

> I'm an IT veteran of over 30 years, [...]

   And, apparently, still unable to pose a technical question with
enough information to be more useful than annoying.

> [...] as I already said hideous [...]

   Is it the color scheme which bothers you?

> [...] Pity no one from Netgear will read this.

   If you believe that, then one might ask why you bothered.

Message 9 of 10
Xcapee
Star

Re: What kind of sad joke is Netgear genie?

 

@antinode wrote:

> So why bother to comment at all?
I was hoping to learn what was so bad about whatever you were using, but that seems to be a near-hopeless task.

Somewhat surprisingly, starting by insulting the person you were hoping to learn something from hasn't worked out for you.

 

Who'd have thought?

 

> [...] desktop app [...]
For some of us, "desktop" is not an alternate spelling of "Microsoft Windows".

Hahaha. Who said anything about Windows? Of the over 40 devices on my network, none of them run windows.

 

So many assumptions and so thoroughly wrong on every occaision. I guess I'm not surprised, given you came in swinging, yet have so far confessed to not knowing anything about the topic, and then insisted on demonstrating it at every opportunity.

 

When you're in a hole with a shovel...

 

> I'm an IT veteran of over 30 years, [...]
And, apparently, still unable to pose a technical question with enough information to be more useful than annoying.

Wow. What on earth made you think I was posing a technical question? You really should have stopped before you made yourself look even sillier.

 

You're not real good with reading cues are you?

> [...] as I already said hideous [...]
Is it the color scheme which bothers you?

Thank you. You've now perfectly demonstrated why it wasn't worth even trying to explain the obvious to you. You completely ignore any information provided, and don't seem to posses the ability to assess it. I guess you find resorting to petty sarcasm far more satisfying.

 

A perfect demonstration of the Dunning–Kruger effect in action. Congratulations.

 

> [...] Pity no one from Netgear will read this.
If you believe that, then one might ask why you bothered.

Another fabulous demonstration of your remarkable EQ. I'll leave you to puzzle that out for yourself. Someone with an even moderate ability to read social context should get it without too much trouble. YMMV.

 

I realise I am wasting my time and effort, but in all sincerity, I'd strongly suggest you read Michael's first contribution, and the results it got, compared with your own approach. Then have a good, long, hard look at yourself, and think about whether internet forums need more people like him or you. Decide whether you want to be known as someone who adds value or someone who wants to make themself feel good by tearing others down. It's your call really.

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