Reply

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

saboken
Aspirant

2.4 ghz N mode issues

I just can't figure this out if I use wireless N in the 2.4 Ghz band I get a strong 300 mb connection but it drops to 1 mb after a few min's and still says I have a good connection? and I cant even log into the router untill I disconnect and reconect, if I disable N and use G mode I get a constant 54 MB connection, this only happens with my new Dell Inspiron 17R (N7010) Laptop? Dell has replaced the wifi card 3 times thinking it was bad but when I found from another laptop it works fine in 5Ghz in N mode Dell sent me a dual band card so I can connect to the router using 5Ghz without issues, I have tryed to talk to intel who made the WiFi cards but both Intel and I belive it is a issue with the router! Netgear support wont help me at all they want to blame Intel!!! these are new Intel wifi cards that only work with gen 2 I3-I5-I7 cpu's there has to be a issue with the router firmware not maintaining speed with these cards, I can connect to the router fine with a WN311B fine! anyone else have a new Dell laptop with this issue or is the radio going bad in my router?
Message 1 of 23
FYEW_JIT_TIV
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Typical for a company like Netgear to pass of there hardware problems onto another company. Netgear will suffer the same fate as Nokia, Keep delivering poor products and eventually another company will knock you from your spot. Dude i hope you find answers to your problem. I have only had this router for 2weeks and already i'm thinking of binning the damn thing.:mad:
Message 2 of 23
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Specifically which WiFi Adaptor are you using?

Does it have two or three aerial connectors, and are they all connected to an aerial?

Have you checked that there are no other devices which are interfering with the 2.4GHz frequencies? Microwave Ovens, for example, are known to interfere with the signals. Perhaps a local radio transmitter is affecting your WiFi signal?

Other devices I have heard of interfering include DECT phones, some TVs and Video Senders.

Finally where are you copying the data to/from?

If you are copying from a NAS, could you boot into 'Safe Mode with Networking' and see if the speed reduces in this mode. This could show if your AV software is not liking what you are doing.
Message 3 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

It has 2 antennas and they are both connected it works fine in 5ghz a solid 300mb no issues, just the 2.4 and its only the intel cards that are affected I have been through 3 of them so I know there not bad and I can connect to a old Netgear router in 2.4 fine and stable they only have issues with this new "Top Of The Line Router"
Message 4 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

FYEW_JIT_TIV wrote:
Typical for a company like Netgear to pass of there hardware problems onto another company. Netgear will suffer the same fate as Nokia, Keep delivering poor products and eventually another company will knock you from your spot. Dude i hope you find answers to your problem. I have only had this router for 2weeks and already i'm thinking of binning the damn thing.:mad:


I am very disappointed in Netgear in the past I have had good luck but I paid almost $200.00 for this thing and they want me to buy support to troubleshoot there issues? I think a firmware update would correct it but why should I have to pay them to get this flaw to there engineers? at least Dell tried to help me they gave me a better card than what was shipped with my Laptop after sending me 2 of the same and each time the sent it FedEx overnight with out giving them a credit card for collateral now that's customer service I know Netgear will never do that! I don't know what to do I originally purchased the top Cisco router but it's firmware was messed up still in beta and there support was the same BS as Netgear I should have waited till cisco fixed it now it's too late to return and i'm stuck with it I don't want a refurb from Netgear
Message 5 of 23
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

I have the Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 Network adaptor - PCI Express Half Mini Card installed in my main Laptop. I used to have the DGND3700, I now have the WNDR3800. Normally I connect via the 5GHz connection, but I have never had any issues with the 2.4GHz channels on this router.

The card has three aerial connectors and my Laptop only had two fitted, so I have managed to fit a third aerial.

The only issue I have is when viewing the signals using inSSIDer. Both frequencies connect absolutely fine, but if I connect via the 2.4GHz then the 5GHz flicks between seeing the paired channel & a single channel. This is transposed when I connect via the 5GHz channel.

Looking at my neighbours WiFi signals, the issue is visually seen on their routers too, although none appear to have any 5GHz routers at the moment.
Message 6 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

I was going to buy the 6300 but since I only have 2 antennas I accepted what dell shipped me I didn't want to burn out a transmitter if the 6300 try's to use all three it would be nice to connect at 900, but any way I found a way around it but it should work and Netgear wont deal with it
Message 7 of 23
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

You won't be able to connect at 900mbps as the adaptor will connect to either frequency, not both simultaneously. However 450mbps would be usable. Smiley Happy

You never confirmed the actual card which you have installed. Could you also take a look at the system properties for it, post them up and I'll compare them with my own settings. There may be something there which needs adjusting.
Message 8 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

I have 2 different cards in 2 similar Dell laptops 1 Intel® Centrino® Advanced-N 6230 and 1 Intel® Centrino® Advanced-N + WiMAX 6250 they both have the same issue with the 2.4 in N mode same as the original card Dell upgraded me from a (Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N 1030) to the 6230 free so I could use 5Ghz
Message 9 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

also they all work fine with other routers just not this one so it has to be the router and some glitch in the hardware or firmware because I have tested it on to many routers including a few older netgear routers I have retired
Message 10 of 23
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Ok, that should work perfectly well.

The only other thing that I can think of is the Intel software - Intel ProSet. If you have this installed, please remove it. I found it to be a real PITA and by removing it my Laptop works a lot better.

Also have you ensured that you have the latest drivers for the adaptors? For my 6300 I had to visit the Intel site to get 14.3.0.6 a few months ago. The latest for the 6230 are here:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?ProductID=3315&DwnldID=21244〈=eng&iid=dc_rss (15.1.1)

I use M$'s software for handling my WiFi connections and it works just fine.

As for the settings for the card, compare yours to mine to see if this helps:

802.11n Channel Width for band 2.4 - Auto
802.11n Channel Width for band 5.2 - Auto
802.11n Mode - Enabled
Ad Hoc Channel 802.11b/g - 11 {actually this can be anything you like as it is for when you share an Internet connection through the WiFi}
Ad Hoc QoS Mode - WMM Enabled
Bluetooth(R) AMP - Enabled
Fat Channel Intolerant - Disabled
Mixed Model Protection - CTS-to-self Enabled
Preferred Band - Choose from any of these as you wish, I set mine to opt.3 as I have a high number of WiFi Routers where I live: 1. No Preference; 2. Prefer 2.4GHz band; 3. Prefer 5.2GHz band
Roaming Aggressiveness - 3. Medium
Transmit Power - 5. Highest
Wireless Mode - 6. 802.11a/b/g
Message 11 of 23
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

1) Has the 2,4 GHz band ever worked for you with any of your clients (eg your notebooks) as you expected them to function?

2) Did the 2.4 GHz band work as you expected when using your friend's notebook or whatever else you may have tried that accesses the 2.4 GHz band on the router?

3) Do the other routers you tested work as expected on the 2.4 GHz band with your notebook? This means, have you unplugged the 4500 and then plugged in a different router to test.

4) Is the link rate you mentioned the best you can get, even with the client sitting within a couple of feet of the router?

5) What Channel, Mode, and Security setting do you have for the 4500? Have you "customized" any of the other Default settings on the router? If so, what? How is the router positioned - high/low, in a cabinet, obstacles around, etc.


The link rate you mentioned is dependent on the algorithm designed by the NIC card engineers. What one NIC card reports may be different than another NIC card. But they should be somewhat similar for a range of values that can detect and report on.

You reported a low number - 1 Mb. During transmission of data, also referred to as throughput, the link rate may vary substantially - higher during transmission and then drop during periods of no activity. This is the opposite of the link rate seen when first connected to the router and then falling off, sometimes greatly, in a minute or so - all depending on the distance from the router, barriers between the router and client, and signal interference from electric devices and other wireless router signals in your area. That last part is a consideration for you if as I mentioned in #4 above.

You can use the free application called "inSSIDer" to detect broadcasting wireless signals in your location, the channel(s) they use, and the RSSI - loosely meaning a signal intensity - of everyone's signal including your own. It might be that the channel and/or Mode you have selected is interfered with by neighbors (as well as electrical devices in your home or your close neighbors).

Instead of link rate, the more important number is throughput, which is a reflection of the actual link between router and client. Typically, you need two computers connected by a network and use something like LAN Speed Test or iperf/jperf to test and determine throughputs. It is more important to know how fast/well your wireless signal can transmit/receive data than the arbitrary link rate of an inactive signal.

I doubt there is anything wrong with your multiple NIC cards. It could be a settings issue, which is why I asked if the 2.4 GHz band ever worked for any client tried. But my first 4500 had poor 2.4 GHz performance. the second 4500 had poor 5 GHz performance compared to the first 4500. It took a third 4500 for everything to finally function properly.

You may want to open a support ticket at my.netgear.com while working on the problem in this forum, or exchange the . Netgear does not provide support on this forum usually. This forum is customer driven support.
Message 12 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

802.11n Mode - Enabled, I have to leave this set to Disabled for it to work and I have tried using only M$ to connected to the router with the N mode Enabled I connect @ 300 mb and it drops to 1 mb even if my laptop is 2' from the router
Message 13 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

has to be disabled 802.11n Mode - Enabled, I have to leave this set to Disabled for it to work and I have tried using only M$ to connected to the router with the N mode Enabled, I connect @ 300 mb and it drops to 1 mb even if my laptop is 2' from the router with N mode disabled it connects at 54 MB and stays stable at the that speed, as far as the other routers I have no issues with any of them in 2.4 N mode, yes I have pulled out all of my retired Netgear N routers and connected them directly to the cable modem they all work fine I should not have to throw this one in the pile and use a old one that lacks the features I paid for in this one.
Message 14 of 23
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

saboken:

Please answer all of the enumerated questions.

One other question: Is your return or warranty period expired yet?

Don't give up hope yet. Bypassing the router and connecting to your modem is not definitive proof of a lemon. We need more information before calling it quits.
Message 15 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

I thought I was very clear about the issue?
Out of Three new Intel cards none of them work in 2.4 N mode,
They are the only cards that have a issue with this router,
I have tested them with other routers 5 to be exact using this mode and they work fine,
I am just trying to find out if anyone can has the same issue with these cards and this specific router,
So I can rule out a bad radio in the router or it's just a compatibility issue? Issues are very common with new technology,
If it's just a quirk with the router that Netgear has yet to discover then I can sell the router and get the Cisco/Linksys EA4500 N900 I originally purchased but returned because it only had 1 USB port and no status lights but it did work.
Don't get me wrong I like Netgear I have a closet full of there stuff from years back, but I think I have spent enough time beta testing there product and was a bit aggravated that they want me to pay to help solve what I am 99% sure is a compatibility issue on there part.
I am not a newbee I have been buildings PC's since the early 80's
So I think I am just going to Ebay it and sell it as is and cut my losses I just wish I had discovered the issue earlier but I did not own these laptops at the time of purchase.
Message 16 of 23
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

saboken wrote:
I have 2 different cards in 2 similar Dell laptops 1 Intel® Centrino® Advanced-N 6230 and 1 Intel® Centrino® Advanced-N + WiMAX 6250 they both have the same issue with the 2.4 in N mode same as the original card Dell upgraded me from a (Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N 1030) to the 6230 free so I could use 5Ghz


I have a Sony laptop which I upgraded from a single band Atheros card to an Intel 6205 2x2 dual band card over a year ago. When I picked up the WNDR4500 I had the same link rate and throughput drop issues that was described at the start of this post. At first I thought it might have been a bad unit. It was not. I went through two other replacements that were from different manufacturing batches from FoxConn who makes them for Netgear.

It did not have the issue with the WNDR3800 (Atheros-based), WNDR3700v2 (Atheros-based) I had nor with my old WNR3500L (Broadcom-based . After lots of back and forth with crappy Netgear support over two weeks I returned the unit. From what I can make it is an issue between Intel cards and either an issue with the Broadcom chip in the unit or Netgear’s firmware. It has to relate how the unit relates to 2x2 devices in 2.4Ghz frequency when applying the "40 MHz operation in 2.4 GHz with coexistence mechanisms" function that the previously mentioned WNDR3800 and WNR3500L do not use as they are work off an draft version of 802.11n standard. I personally do not think it is a Broadcom chip issue as I have tested other N900 routers with the same set and this issue does not exist.
Compared to other vendors (Linksys, d-Link, Belkin) Netgear has buggy firmware normally for the first 4 to 8 months of most of its consumer wireless router products after they hit store shelves. The past few years there have only been very, very few exceptions to this.
My recommendation would be to return your WNDR4500 and go with a WNDR3800 or an WNDRMACv2.
Message 17 of 23
saboken
Aspirant

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Thank you so much finally someone that understood my question and verified my suspicions! It is to late to return it unless Netgear will step up and replace it with a older model that has the bugs worked out, I really doubt this will happen based on my experiences with there support but at least Dell made a good effort to give me a Free Dual band card to put a band-aid on the issue until Netgear fixes the bugs. It's sad that the consumers are beta testers and they have to pay them to work out there bugs. I do beta testing for various company's and this router was offered to me but I declined it since my security system depends on the internet to communicate with the monitoring co and I did not want any issues, just the fact that it was beta tested and released with these issues is poor PR.

mediatrek wrote:
I have a Sony laptop which I upgraded from a single band Atheros card to an Intel 6205 2x2 dual band card over a year ago. When I picked up the WNDR4500 I had the same link rate and throughput drop issues that was described at the start of this post. At first I thought it might have been a bad unit. It was not. I went through two other replacements that were from different manufacturing batches from FoxConn who makes them for Netgear.

It did not have the issue with the WNDR3800 (Atheros-based), WNDR3700v2 (Atheros-based) I had nor with my old WNR3500L (Broadcom-based . After lots of back and forth with crappy Netgear support over two weeks I returned the unit. From what I can make it is an issue between Intel cards and either an issue with the Broadcom chip in the unit or Netgear’s firmware. It has to relate how the unit relates to 2x2 devices in 2.4Ghz frequency when applying the "40 MHz operation in 2.4 GHz with coexistence mechanisms" function that the previously mentioned WNDR3800 and WNR3500L do not use as they are work off an draft version of 802.11n standard. I personally do not think it is a Broadcom chip issue as I have tested other N900 routers with the same set and this issue does not exist.
Compared to other vendors (Linksys, d-Link, Belkin) Netgear has buggy firmware normally for the first 4 to 8 months of most of its consumer wireless router products after they hit store shelves. The past few years there have only been very, very few exceptions to this.
My recommendation would be to return your WNDR4500 and go with a WNDR3800 or an WNDRMACv2.
Message 18 of 23
MisterNivek
Novice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Late to the post but I concur that the Wireless Radio in the 4500 is buggy. I have the WNR3500 and I had to put it back in. It's a great device, don't get me wrong. It kicks some serious butt. All my devices work except when streaming videos to Xbox live and my android phone. I posted lenthy details in another post. The fix is to turn the 2.4 radio to "up to 54" and your issues should be resolved. However, what's the point of spending almost $200 to "downgrade" I didn't buy the device to "downgrade". I would have got the WNDR 3700 but i heard it has 5gh radio issues. I want to say the 3800 has 2.4 radio issues too.

The 3500 has the 2.4 radio issue when you set the radio "up to 300" and is fixed when you set to "up to 144". When I first got the 4500 and saw the "up to 217" i had a feeling there would be an issue eventually, I was right. I will probably get the 3700 or do some research on the 3800 since they are dirt cheap now. Plus netgear has a new a/c router coming out, but I don't think I will jump on that.
Message 19 of 23
mediatrek
Virtuoso

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

MisterNivek wrote:
Late to the post but I concur that the Wireless Radio in the 4500 is buggy. I have the WNR3500 and I had to put it back in. It's a great device, don't get me wrong. It kicks some serious butt. All my devices work except when streaming videos to Xbox live and my android phone. I posted lenthy details in another post. The fix is to turn the 2.4 radio to "up to 54" and your issues should be resolved. However, what's the point of spending almost $200 to "downgrade" I didn't buy the device to "downgrade". I would have got the WNDR 3700 but i heard it has 5gh radio issues. I want to say the 3800 has 2.4 radio issues too.

The 3500 has the 2.4 radio issue when you set the radio "up to 300" and is fixed when you set to "up to 144". When I first got the 4500 and saw the "up to 217" i had a feeling there would be an issue eventually, I was right. I will probably get the 3700 or do some research on the 3800 since they are dirt cheap now. Plus netgear has a new a/c router coming out, but I don't think I will jump on that.


Which WNDR3500 are you talking about? Going back to the first generation with the blinking blue lights and Marvell chipset or the smaller WNR3500L with the Broadcom chipset? Either way, they are old units based on old chipsets.

When you talk about the WNDR3700, you really do have to specify which version. The first version (v1) is hard to come by and tends to have the best 5 GHz range out of the 3 WNDR3700 versions. The WNDR3700v2 is my pick of all the versions in the “family.” It does not have the same antennas for the 5ghz radio as the v1, so range is a little less. Netgear made the change to avoid patent infringements. WNDR3700v3 is a stay away in my book and is what you will find in WNDR3700 boxes on store shelves or if you order online. It is a 2x2 version of the WNDR4000 with crappy 2.4Ghz range and a slower speed chipset than the Atheros chip in the v1 and v2.

I currently have the WNDR3800 and have no issues with it. I actually get better 2.4Ghz range than on any of the WNDR3700 versions. I have not had any wireless disconnect issues on any devices since having the latest 1.0.0.34 firmware installed on it.

One nice thing with the WNDR3700v1, WNDR3700v2. WNDR3800, WNDRMAC & WNDRMACv2 is that in the 2.4Ghz frequency they do not have the automatic 40Mhz co-existence mechanism in place. This means that they will not switch to 20Mhz only broadcasting if the router thinks the frequency is too crowded with no way to override, hence hindering your 2.4Ghz performance.

If there is one thing I have learned over the past three years, it is to stay away with routers with Broadcom chips in them (WNDR4500 is one).
Message 20 of 23
MisterNivek
Novice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Thanks for you reply! so good to have someone know the issues and what we are talking about.

The first WNR3500v1 based on marvell with blue lights. I love that router, but it's starting to go or can't handle my needs anymore I think. Otherwise, it's still a solid router. I can't put it up to 300 or I will have issues with my Xbox. Although, I haven't tried it since I got my new Xbox with built-in wireless. I had the issue on my gaming adapter on my old xbox. However, with the new xbox with wireless, the 4500 sucks at 217/450 settings. I'm not putting it to 54.

WNDR3700 v1 & v2. I was going to upgrade but then they came out with the WN37AV, which was simply the WNDR3700, then the 3800 came out, then 4000, then 4500, so I kept waiting and waiting before finally plunging for the 4500, which will be sadly returned. Smiley Sad

I need one that has good 2.4 and 5 gz. I would like to ultimetly move to the 5ghz range but don't want to upgrade all devices yet.

I have never been a big fan of broadcom and I have a tendency to stay away from devices that broadcom chips too.

So, I think the plan is to get the Netgear 3800 or new ASUS RT-N66U, which has got great reviews.

Not a fan of netgear putting this plastic stuff on their routers which can cause issues too.
Message 21 of 23
MisterNivek
Novice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

the new asus RT-N66U uses broadcom Smiley Sad too bad cuz I wanted to get the wireless adapter EA-N66 with it.

It seems like the wndr 3800 may be the best option right now?
Message 22 of 23
MisterNivek
Novice

Re: 2.4 ghz N mode issues

Decided to pick up Cisco EA4500 based on marvell and AWESOME. Not good on the 5ghz radio but that could be the old 5 ghz adapter i'm using, so I will have to try my laptop. the 2.4 rocks though! Xbox live works again! woot!
Message 23 of 23
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