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BT Infinity

Morelli
Aspirant

BT Infinity

I am thinking of moving away from my current ISP (Talk Talk) to BT Infinity.
If anyone in the UK has experience of using the DGND3700 with the modem that BT supply I would be grateful for any feedback.
Thanks
Message 1 of 38
keith_thfc
Tutor

Re: BT Infinity

Hi Morelli

Probably not much help to you at the moment - but I bought this router specifically to use on BT Infinity/FTTC but am still waiting for it to be installed so still on ASDL at the moment.

BT say I should have it by the new year......but the date has slipped before so wouldn't be suprised to see it do so again.

Hoping to hear feedback from anyone else who has used this router with BT Infinity.
Message 2 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

Most of us are using the ADSL port with this router. However I have used the Ethernet WAN port for a period of time and experienced no issues. I did this using my Sky router to connect to their server and plugging the DGND3700 into one of it's LAN ports.

One reason I went for this particular router is because I could use it on either type of connection.

The BT Infinity product has a few different speeds (up to 40 or 80Mb/s for FTTC & 100Mb/s for FTTP) and should be increased further in due course.

This router should be able to handle it all.

If you are interested, it is possible that Sky may actually be in a position to launch their first fibre product range very soon. A lot of people have help back, but are now going to someone else as they are fed up with waiting though.
Message 3 of 38
keith_thfc
Tutor

Re: BT Infinity

Frankly I'm amazed SKY, O2 and other ISP's have been so slow with their Fibre offerings in the UK.

Unless you can get/want a Virgin Media Cable service then its a no-brainer at the moment to choose BT Infinity if you have it available. And then of course you are locked into an 18 month contract.

I'm very wary of going with BT due to their history with throttling/snooping/local exchange congestion so will probably go with another provider. Love to stay with be* as I can't rate them highly enough (been with them for several years now) but they have only just announced the first trial on a single exchange.
Message 4 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

There are some small ISPs who resell BT Wholesale products who can supply FTTC or FTTP now.

Unfortunately they are subjected to BT's throttling at 'peak' times (4pm-11pm).

However they do have different terms & conditions and some have unmetered access during the night (midnight to 9am for example).

As for BT, personally speaking, after experiencing their terrible customer services, I never recommend them as a company now. They have no concept of UK law and a total disregard for common courtesy.
Message 5 of 38
Morelli
Aspirant

Re: BT Infinity

I was previously with F2S and two and a half years ago I had a connection speed of 6528 yet now with Talk Talk I am lucky to get 4000. Still within 24 hours of requesting my MAC from Talk Talk it arrived. What surprises me is that they didn’t offer to upgrade me to ‘their’ Fibre package which I didn’t know they had until this morning! Checking their site and entering my telephone number I see “Your estimated Fibre Optic line speed will be 34.2 Meg download and 2 Meg upload. Compare that to you current download speed of 4.4 Meg.” (This Fiber connection alone would be £31.50 per month compared with BT's £28.50 - line rental on top of both BUT the BT price includes 'free' 01, 02 etc calls of up to 59 minutes.) But somewhat missleadingly on the opposite side of the page it says I can register my interest.
Yes I too don’t want to support BT but there is no alternative where I am – despite the area’s streets being ‘cabled’ by the now defunct Euro Bell. What are the other ISPs doing? BT have the monopoly for high speed connection and it appears in the area where I live customers are flocking to BT.
Sorry its getting slightly off topic from the 3700 but I guess that will function with whatever modem BT supply.
Message 6 of 38
keith_thfc
Tutor

Re: BT Infinity

Scubbie wrote:
There are some small ISPs who resell BT Wholesale products who can supply FTTC or FTTP now.

Unfortunately they are subjected to BT's throttling at 'peak' times (4pm-11pm).

However they do have different terms & conditions and some have unmetered access during the night (midnight to 9am for example).
Scubbie - not sure if we are talking about the same thing but I know there are some ISP's like Zen who sell an FTTC/FTTP service which isn't subject to BT's throttling. Its similar to a LLU provider where you are connected to their kit at the exchange rather than BT's.

Zen don't throttle any protocols but this means that the service has to be capped (rather than "unlimited") and quite expensive compared to BT Infinity.
Message 7 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

keith_thfc wrote:
Scubbie - not sure if we are talking about the same thing but I know there are some ISP's like Zen who sell an FTTC/FTTP service which isn't subject to BT's throttling. Its similar to a LLU provider where you are connected to their kit at the exchange rather than BT's.

Zen don't throttle any protocols but this means that the service has to be capped (rather than "unlimited") and quite expensive compared to BT Infinity.


No problem, I guess I should amend my original statement to suggest that most ISPs who purchase BTW products are subjected to the peak throttling by BT. They can purchase extra bandwidth to bypass this, which is probably what has happened with your connection.

Zen are also an LLU provider in 4 telephone exchanges:


    What I can't remember is whether or not Zen rent a connection through another LLU provider, like some ISPs do. You may wish to check this out. A simple way would be to run 'tracert'. The provider's name may appear in the 2nd or 3rd connection.
Message 8 of 38
GlynM
Novice

Re: BT Infinity

Morelli wrote:
... If anyone in the UK has experience of using the DGND3700 with the modem that BT supply I would be grateful for any feedback.
Thanks


Just to say I have been using a DGND3700 on BT infinity, FTTC, since it was enabled here on the Aldershot exchange in July this year without any problems.

I am consistently getting better than 37Mbit/s in and 8Mbit/s out with a ping of 11ms all measured using speedtest.net I don't think I have seen any congestion problems but that may be because I am deep in Virgin cable land and guess that there are not too many other infinity users in my local cabinet which is only a couple of hundred yards away.

I had to use the login details (bthomehub@btbroadband.com) from the BT Home-Hub3, that came with infinity, to get the DGND3700 connected. I have kept the HH3 just in case there were any issues I would need to resolve with BT but so far it has been fine.

Using the DGND3700 gives access to 5Ghz wireless which no-one else around here seems to be using while the 2.5GHz bands are very overpopulated. The 5GHz signal strengths are a bit low but it does just about cover our house. I am though slowly migrating my system over to wired gigabyte ethernet to get the best benefit from the FTTC speeds.

The other advantages with the DGND3700 are that all the network ports are gigabyte and I don't have to worry about the BT-FON nonsense on the HH3 giving my bandwidth away Smiley Happy.

Glyn
Message 9 of 38
GlynM
Novice

Re: BT Infinity

GlynM wrote:
... I had to use the login details (bthomehub@btbroadband.com) from the BT Home-Hub3, that came with infinity, to get the DGND3700 connected.


I have just remembered the other thing that was necessary to get the DGND3700 working with the BT infinity modem was to set the DGND3700 local router address to be the same as the BT Home-Hub3, 192.168.1.254. I assume that the BT modem, which appears to have no user configuration functionality, expects this address.

I have the modem and the router in different rooms connected by a cat5 cable passing through a patch-panel in the loft Smiley Happy which took some convincing of the Openreach engineer who installed the modem but works fine.

Glyn
Message 10 of 38
Morelli
Aspirant

Re: BT Infinity

Glyn,
Thanks for your comments. My installation is due Tuesday next week and I'll bear in mind your comments regarding setting up the 3700.
GlynM wrote:
I have just remembered the other thing that was necessary to get the DGND3700 working with the BT infinity modem was to set the DGND3700 local router address to be the same as the BT Home-Hub3, 192.168.1.254. I assume that the BT modem, which appears to have no user configuration functionality, expects this address.

login details (bthomehub@btbroadband.com) from the BT Home-Hub3, that came with infinity, to get the DGND3700 connectedGlyn

I've been "quoted" a download speed of 34.5 and 10 up which beats my current speeds of 4.5 and 0.6 hands down.
If you are not using the HH3 I assume you are not running BT FON (the open access wifi)?
I had my MAC from Talk Talk without any problem within 24 hours - is this a record?

Morelli
Message 11 of 38
GlynM
Novice

Re: BT Infinity

Morelli wrote:

Thanks for your comments. My installation is due Tuesday next week and I'll bear in mind your comments regarding setting up the 3700.

I've been "quoted" a download speed of 34.5 and 10 up which beats my current speeds of 4.5 and 0.6 hands down.
If you are not using the HH3 I assume you are not running BT FON (the open access wifi)?
I had my MAC from Talk Talk without any problem within 24 hours - is this a record?

Morelli


All sounds great. I think I was only quoted 30Mbit/s in and 6Mbit/s out and actually got more so hopefully you will too.

Because our FTTC dates kept shifting around and I had to give 3 months notice with my old ISP I migrated to BT a few weeks before FTTC was available. As the DGND3700 had the red-light drop out problems on the BT ADSL2+ I used the BT supplied HH3 as a temporary stop-gap.

It was a bit of a shock to find that the HH3 was doing BT FON by default and frustrating that it took 48 hours to get it turned off. It was also slightly worrying that BT could remotely tinker with the router. Of course there is no chance of that happening now with the DGND3700 Smiley Happy.

I left the HH3 in service until after the FTTC installation had been completed which was probably wise otherwise it would have added complications and then swapped it out for DGND3700 a couple of days later.

I hope your migration goes without problem.

Cheers,

Glyn
Message 12 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

GlynM wrote:
It was a bit of a shock to find that the HH3 was doing BT FON by default and frustrating that it took 48 hours to get it turned off. It was also slightly worrying that BT could remotely tinker with the router. Of course there is no chance of that happening now with the DGND3700 Smiley Happy.


It was reported a little while ago that BT started snooping on customers LANs.

There is an issue with some old PowerLine Adapters and they wanted to check to see that they had been replaced. Not all of them have been and they are potentially a serious problem.

...well that was the excuse provided. :rolleyes:

Other ISPs have also been known to check out the contents of PCs connected to their routers. NTL (now Virgin) has it in the T&Cs.
Message 13 of 38
keith_thfc
Tutor

Re: BT Infinity

Scubbie wrote:


What I can't remember is whether or not Zen rent a connection through another LLU provider, like some ISPs do.
Zen rent their Fibre service from BT Openreach. If I check my exchange activation status on BT and Zen they mirror each other.
Message 14 of 38
Morelli
Aspirant

Re: BT Infinity

Scubbie,
Scubbie wrote:

There is an issue with some old PowerLine Adapters and they wanted to check to see that they had been replaced. Not all of them have been and they are potentially a serious problem.


Is this a generic issue? Whilst mostly wireless I run a PC and TV from the 3700 via Solwise 200mb Homeplug AV Adaptors.

Morelli
Message 15 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

Morelli wrote:
Is this a generic issue? Whilst mostly wireless I run a PC and TV from the 3700 via Solwise 200mb Homeplug AV Adaptors.


No. The problem was limited to a couple of specific models. Please see the link below for full details:

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=29966&s_cid=con_FURL_...
Message 16 of 38
Morelli
Aspirant

Re: BT Infinity

The big changeover from TalkTalk to BT did not go smoothly. It was not just the sending all emails which were blocked that I have found how to send although receiving was no issue - so the junk mail continues. Seems the laptop developed a mind of its own as to when it allowed users access to the net although it remains connected to the router. On the other hand the TV, which has limited internet applications, seemed reluctant to stay connected to the router whether wired or wireless. Another issue was the updating to my weather site which took some time to resolve. In the end it was down to restrictions I placed on the sites access be IP address - can't remember what I did yesterday let alone 2 years ago! So the simple concept of the 'engineer will set up your new broadband access' is a tad misleading. I can't find the BT web page now but the closing statement ran along the lines of 'having tried all the above without success don't call us'.
Anyhow I (the BT engineer had a go but could sort out the issue) have at last managed to configure - if that's the right term - with GlenM's help the DGND3700 so all's well. I must say I was not overlly impressed with the HH3's performance as the TV and laptop seem a lot happier talking to the Netgear.
Currently the DSL LED is blinking which I understand indicates the router is negotiating the best possible speed. The powerplugs seem to be working OK.
So far so good.
Morelli
Message 17 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

If you intend to run your LAN through the DGND3700, then the Internet connection should be connected via the Ethernet WAN port.

You will then need to set up you router to use this as the WAN connection (not the ADSL port) and everything should connect perfectly to the FTTC Modem.

I can't recall all the settings just now, but check out the following links to your router:

http://www.routerlogin.net/BAS_basic.htm - change the Basic Settings so that 'Does your Internet connection require a login?' is set to 'No'; the rest on that page should be 'automatic'

http://www.routerlogin.net/WAN_wan.htm - change 'WAN Preference' to 'Must use Ethernet WAN' and set the other options as required (MTU should be fine at 1500).

Feel free to go through the rest of the router setup pages: http://www.routerlogin.net
Message 18 of 38
Morelli
Aspirant

Re: BT Infinity

Scubbie
Scubbie wrote:
If you intend to run your LAN through the DGND3700, then the Internet connection should be connected via the Ethernet WAN port.

Yes, I did that and it connects.
Scubbie wrote:
You will then need to set up you router to use this as the WAN connection (not the ADSL port) and everything should connect perfectly to the FTTC Modem.

Yes, again there was no problem.
Scubbie wrote:
I can't recall all the settings just now, but check out the following links to your router:

OK
Scubbie wrote:
http://www.routerlogin.net/BAS_basic.htm - change the Basic Settings so that 'Does your Internet connection require a login?' is set to 'No'; the rest on that page should be 'automatic'

Interesting. I can’t get an internet connection selecting ‘No’, the Internet LED light on the router remains solid Red. Setting it to ‘Yes’ with the login, as described by GlenM, ‘bthomehub@btbroadband.com’ together with my btinternet password fixes it.

[QUOTE=Scubbie;382476] http://www.routerlogin.net/WAN_wan.htm - change 'WAN Preference' to 'Must use Ethernet WAN' and set the other options as required (MTU should be fine at 1500).[ /QUOTE]

I had this set as default i.e. automatic, but have changed to what you suggest but have left the MTU as default.

Has DSL LED light blinking on the router anything to do with the new connection ‘bedding in’ process?
Morelli
Message 19 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

Thinking about this this morning, the DSL light will blink as you send traffic through your router. So the blinking will be normal and nothing to worry about.

As for the log in details, no problem. I don't have a huge experience on a Cable connection.
Message 20 of 38
GlynM
Novice

Re: BT Infinity

Morelli wrote:

... Currently the DSL LED is blinking which I understand indicates the router is negotiating the best possible speed. The powerplugs seem to be working OK.
So far so good.
Morelli


Good to hear that you got your DGND3700 running on BT Infinity Smiley Happy.

The DSL LED is flashing continuously on my infinity connected DGND3700 as well. I obviously do not have anything connected to the DSL socket and it even keeps flashing if I set the "WAN Preference" to "Must use Ethernet WAN" (in Advanced WAN Setup) so I just assume it is another low-level bug which will hopefully one-day get fixed.

Glyn
Message 21 of 38
Morelli
Aspirant

Re: BT Infinity

It's not although there aren't enough lights when taking into account the extra three on the modem.
Is this odd?
Laptop speed check
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1640795630.png
PC speed check
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1640796821.png

Given that the speed checks were carried out back to back is it something LAN side of the router, e.g. Laptop is wireless G whereas the PC is connected via 200mb PowerPlugs (these two plugs are on separate ring mains).

Another issue re the firmware is the display under Maintenance, Router Status, Show Statistics http://www.routerlogin.net/RST_statistics.htmwhich still has the display for a ADSL connection although obviously blank. Given that the 3700 is for alternative connections, either fibre or ADSL, couldn't the display reflect this and show Fibre data when the 3700 is set for the router function only.
Morelli
Message 22 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

The missing connection information is annoying, as you say, but since it is taken from the router's connection speed, I guess it would be misleading to put the Ethernet connection speed between the DGND3700 and the modem.

When I connected mine via the Sky router, I also found that the connection time on the Traffic Meter page is also missing, despite it being available on the WNDR3700, for example.

As for the speedtest results, these are often unreliable. You need to connect your laptop directly to the router via an Ethernet cable in order to get something closer to accurate. As far as WiFi is concerned, it will always be variable, and it would appear that you have a bottleneck with those HomePlug/PowerLine Adapters.

I would also recommend running the speed test at different times of the day, on different days and using different servers. The site gets a hammering at the best of times and the results vary dramatically.

Only by running multiple tests can you get some idea as to how good or bad a connection is.

Personally I've run some tests in the past, using the same setup, and have had results varying from 10Mb/s to 23Mb/s on the downstream. My connection is a stable 20Mb/s, less the overheads, the speed test should show around 17Mb/s.

Fair reflection of my connection:


Somewhat inaccurate reflections of my connection:
Message 23 of 38
GlynM
Novice

Re: BT Infinity

Scubbie wrote:

As for the speedtest results, these are often unreliable. You need to connect your laptop directly to the router via an Ethernet cable in order to get something closer to accurate. As far as WiFi is concerned, it will always be variable, and it would appear that you have a bottleneck with those HomePlug/PowerLine Adapters.

I would also recommend running the speed test at different times of the day, on different days and using different servers. The site gets a hammering at the best of times and the results vary dramatically.

Only by running multiple tests can you get some idea as to how good or bad a connection is.


I have to agree with this very sensible advice. Certainly now with the rates I am getting on FTTC speedtest.net often seams to be testing the server performance rather than the circuits. I found that some experimentation was needed using different servers and then sticking with the one that came out best with consistent results. I have also been slowly moving over to wired gigabyte ethernet around the house just leaving the wireless for my netbook and visitors. With wired desktop PC I have been getting the following result almost constantly for the last few months from my chosen server:



As an aside since last night we are are having some interesting issues. The phone line failed late last night but the FTTC internet is still working.

It sounds like a cable theft. I found the post office in a local shop couldn't operate and they confirmed that there were lots of people with BT line issues.

The BT fault report update is currently saying it will not be fixed until Thursday. Fortunately the thieving idiots obviously did not pull out the fibre as well otherwise I would be really in trouble but I guess that there are many ADSL customers completely off.

It is obviously a prevalent problem as a neighbouring village was cut-off by a cable theft only a few weeks ago and they don't have fibre yet, were of for about 5 days and then had problems with some of the reconnections being crossed.

Glyn
Message 24 of 38
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: BT Infinity

GlynM wrote:
As an aside since last night we are are having some interesting issues. The phone line failed late last night but the FTTC internet is still working.


I'm not familiar enough with FTTC to know the ins & outs, but with ADSL it is possible for 1 wire to become disconnected and for the telephone to be dead, whilst the broadband will continue working, although at a slower speed.
Message 25 of 38
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