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bugmenot2
Apprentice

How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

hello, I have now read countless threads about this, but this seems to not work whatever I do.


I have bought a JWNR2010v5 and I would like to use it as a second access point to extend my wireless signal in a far away portion of the home, where the wireless signal from my main router is weak but where I was able to carry an ethernet cable.

 

I cannot seem to be able to avoid creating a subnet with the JWNR2010v5.

 

I have tried both:

 

CASE A)

main router connected to WAN port of Netgear.

Netgear is happy because it sees internet, gets a DHCP address from my main router, creates a subnet.

everything works but I would like to get rid of the Netgear subnet and have everything on the LAN created by my main router.

 

CASE B)

main router connected to LAN port of Netgear, DHCP for Netgear disabled.

Netgear is NOT happy since it does not see internet access.

wired computers connected to the other LAN ports of Netgear are switched on the main router's network and work great.

wireless computers connected to the Netgear wifi do NOT get an IP address, thus are stuck in a limbo.

 

how can I accomplish a simple no DHCP, no NAT mode for my Netgear router?

I only want a single subnet!

 

thanks. bye

 

Model: JWNR2010v5|N300 Wireless Router
Message 1 of 17

Accepted Solutions
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

downgraded firmware to v54 -- everything works as expected now!

 

the 403 Forbidden bug was quite annoying and, I guess, was what made me stray from the suggested steps in the tutorial.

View solution in original post

Message 15 of 17

All Replies
antinode
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> [...] I have now read countless threads about this, [...]

 

   Think, for a moment, about how little useful information that
non-description conveys to the non-psychics in your audience.

 

> I have bought a JWNR2010v5 and I would like to use it as a second
> access point [...]

 

   Ok. You need to configure your JWNR2010v5 as a wireless access
point.  According to its User Manual, it doesn't have a convenient
option to do that.

 

> CASE A)

 

   It's still a router, which is not what you want.

 

> CASE B)
> main router connected to LAN port of Netgear, DHCP for Netgear
> disabled.


   That's closer.

 

> Netgear is NOT happy since it does not see internet access.

 

   What, exactly, does "NOT happy" mean to you, and how, exactly, did
you decide that "does not see internet access" (whatever that means) is
the reason?

 

   It's not obvious to me why your "CASE B)" does not work.

There's a detailed procedure for configuring (almost?) any wireless
router as a WAP here:

 

      https://community.netgear.com/t5/x/x/m-p/1463500

 

   That's written for a Netgear C6300-as-WAP, but the steps are about the
same for any other router (any make/model) which lacks a one-step WAP
option.  But the essence is disable the DHCP server, and use a LAN port.


   I know nothing, but I can imagine that the JWNR2010v5 firmware has
some defect/quirk which affects only its wireless client devices.

Message 2 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> Think, for a moment, about how little useful information that
> non-description conveys to the non-psychics in your audience.

 

my first sentence was only to say that I am not a complete newbie who comes to the forums for easy help without having tried anything first, but rather I've spent several days reading through any thread I could find and I've wasted a full day trying to make it work.
sorry if that was not clear.

 

> Ok. You need to configure your JWNR2010v5 as a wireless access
> point. According to its User Manual, it doesn't have a convenient
> option to do that.

 

that's fine, I am willing to painstakingly set up everything as needed.

 

> What, exactly, does "NOT happy" mean to you, and how, exactly, did
> you decide that "does not see internet access" (whatever that means) is
> the reason?

 

since the ethernet cable going to my main router is connected to the LAN port, the WAN port is empty.
the Netgear complains a lot about that, and insists quite often that I re-do the entire setup wizard.
I do not think the Netgear is happy about having an empty WAN port.
also, with an empty WAN port, the Netgear does not pick up an IP address from my main router's DHCP server.

 

> It's not obvious to me why your "CASE B)" does not work.
> There's a detailed procedure for configuring (almost?) any wireless
> router as a WAP here:

 

that's exactly what I have read and followed.

 

> But the essence is disable the DHCP server, and use a LAN port.

 

I thought so too, but there are a couple of issues:
- the Netgear does not pick up an IP address from my main router, which might be expected but is certainly weird to me (no Netgear dashboard in this config),
- the wired clients are correctly switched to the DHCP of the main router and pick up an address,
- the wireless clients are not switched to the DHCP and never pick up an address.

 

> I know nothing, but I can imagine that the JWNR2010v5 firmware has
> some defect/quirk which affects only its wireless client devices.

 

for the record, I bought this Netgear and it had firmware V1.1.0.62_1.0.1 by default, while online the official Netgear product page says the last version is v54.
anyway, I fear there might be some bug in the firmware preventing this operation at all!

it feels like the Netgear still advertises itself as DNS even though I disabled the DHCP, and therefore, since it has no knowledge of the main router's DHCP or network, cannot do anything at all and gets stuck in limbo.

I did post another reply but it got lost somehow.
anyway, thanks for helping out!

Message 3 of 17
antinode
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> [...] sorry if that was not clear.

 

   I got the opposite impression.

 

> [...] with an empty WAN port, the Netgear does not pick up an IP
> address from my main router's DHCP server.

 

   That's to be expected.  On the models/versions which offer the
one-step WAP option, using DHCP is the default ("Get dynamically from
existing router").  With the ad-hoc scheme, you need to assign its LAN
interface a static IP address, which is the primary complicating factor
in that procedure.

 

> it feels like the Netgear still advertises itself as DNS even though I
> disabled the DHCP, and therefore, since it has no knowledge of the main
> router's DHCP or network, cannot do anything at all and gets stuck in
> limbo.

 

   Ask a client device what it's using?  I know nothing, but I wouldn't
be amazed if it intercepted DNS requests, and then mishandled them.


> anyway, thanks for helping out!

 

   Wish I could do more.  I've seen scheme this work on more than a few
old-junk routers, but it can be defeated by quirky firmware.  And, in my
book, at least, works-for-wired and fails-for-wireless qualifies as
quirky.

Message 4 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> That's to be expected. On the models/versions which offer the
> one-step WAP option, using DHCP is the default ("Get dynamically from
> existing router"). With the ad-hoc scheme, you need to assign its LAN
> interface a static IP address, which is the primary complicating factor
> in that procedure.

 

I guess that is the problem.

my main router creates a classic LAN subnet on 192.168.1.0/24.

if I connect the Netgear to my main router (WAN port), then the Netgear will get an IP through DHCP (e.g. 192.168.1.100) and will prevent me from setting a non-DHCP static IP address for it, for example 192.168.1.253, since its LAN address and WAN address are overlapping.

in other guides I've read that there might be a prompt warning about the overlap, and to just click through it, but in my case the prompt is a blocking error and the settings are not changed.

 

so I guess I have to first set this up without connecting to the main router, and I'm pretty sure I did that in my several tries.

I've set a static IP for the Netgear at 192.168.1.253.

still, even after a reboot, I do not see the Netgear in my main router's devices list.

at the same time, I cannot connect to my Netgear at 192.168.1.253:8080 (which is the default Remote Management port to get the web dashboard from outside of the Netgear's net).

this tells me that the Netgear does not reserve the IP I've chosen for it, just like it wouldn't ask for it if I let DHCP settings on and connected the main router to the LAN, not WAN port.

 

I have a feeling that the DHCP vs static IP address settings in the "WAN" settings of the Netgear do just that, that is, reflect on the WAN port only.

no WAN port cable? no point in setting those up.

you connect the LAN cable only? then the wired clients are physically switched into the same net, but the wireless clients have a poorly designed Netgear box doing nothing for them since it seems an empty WAN port and probably gets stuck because of that.

 

still, as I was saying, I've read countless threads of people doing just this (AP mode on JWNR2010v5) so I'm sure someone will know whether this is feasible or not.

 

 

> Ask a client device what it's using? I know nothing, but I wouldn't
> be amazed if it intercepted DNS requests, and then mishandled them.

 

I'm not even sure, because clients will not get an IP, and I don't think they will get a DNS.

I will definitely try again, but this feels impossible with the advanced panel I've seen so far.

 

Smiley Sad

Message 5 of 17
antinode
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> I guess that is the problem.

 

   _What_ is?  The fact that you need to follow the procedure provided,
and not just improvise some stuff which "feels" good?

 

> my main router creates a classic LAN subnet on 192.168.1.0/24.

 

   Expected.

 

> if I connect the Netgear to my main router (WAN port), [...]

 

   Huh?  An Ethernet cable has two ends.  What, exactly, are you
connecting to what, exactly?  (Hint: If a device has different types of
Ethernet ports, then "connected to device" is not enough detail.)

 

> [...] then the Netgear will get an IP through DHCP (e.g.
> 192.168.1.100) [...]

 

   If you connect the JWNR2010v5 WAN/Internet port to a LAN port on the
main router, then the JWNR2010v5 WAN/Internet interface would typically
get an IP _address_ using DHCP.  Which is not what you want.


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Protocol
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_address

 

> so I guess I have to first set this up without connecting to the main
> router, and I'm pretty sure I did that in my several tries.

 

   Did you read and follow the procedure in the thread cited above?  I'm
pretty sure that I don't know what you did.

 

> I've set a static IP for the Netgear at 192.168.1.253.

 

   _Which_ IP _address_ did you set, how?  A router like the JWNR2010v5
has _two_ IP addresses: LAN and WAN/Internet.

 

> [...] I cannot connect to my Netgear at 192.168.1.253:8080 (which is
> the default Remote Management port to get the web dashboard from outside
> of the Netgear's net).


   When you do _what_, exactly, _where_, exactly?  "cannot" is not a
useful problem description.  It does not say what you did.  It does not
say what happened when you did it.  As usual, showing actual actions
(commands) with their actual results (error messages, LED indicators,
...) can be more helpful than vague descriptions or interpretations.

 

   "Remote Management" is used for access from the WAN/Internet side of
the router.  If you're configuring the JWNR2010v5 as a WAP, then you
don't use its WAN/Internet side, only its LAN side.

 

> this tells me that the Netgear does not reserve the IP I've chosen for
> it, [...]

 

   I don't know what the means.  What it tells me is that you seem not
to be following the instructions.

 

> I have a feeling that the DHCP vs static IP address settings in the
> "WAN" settings of the Netgear do just that, that is, reflect on the WAN
> port only.


   Well, duh.  Is there anything in the instructions which says to set
anything related to the WAN/Internet interface of the router-as-WAP?

 

> no WAN port cable? no point in setting those up.

 

   Exactly.

 

> you connect the LAN cable only? [...]

 

   What does "the LAN cable" mean to you?  Which part of the following
was unclear?:

 

      [...] Connect an Ethernet cable from a LAN port on "The AT&T
      router" to a LAN port on the C6300. [...]

 

> I will definitely try again, but this feels impossible with the
> advanced panel I've seen so far.

 

   You might try following the instructions (for a change?), and relying
less on "feelings".  Just a thought.

Message 6 of 17
schumaku
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

The anonymous user does want to operate the Netgear JWNR2010v5 Router as a plain wired Wireless Access Point.  While the JWNR2010v5 can be configured as a wireless extender (against some router chipset resp. the same model), it does not offer a plain access point mode as per the fine documentation, the data sheet and the user manual.

 

As per the fine JWNR2010v5 N300 Wireless Router User Manual p.48/49, the DHCP server feature can be disabled.

 

DNS is not something that is "announced" somehow - however, I would not wonder a second if an old issue exists on this (as on other Netgear routers) that the plain text DNS queries (e.g. from wireless associated devices) are captured and redirected to the router local DNS server relay, which again does point to the ISP assigned (DHCP resp. PPP IPCP) - as it is for NAT router operations. This makes it impossible using these crap routers as plain access points - say thank you Netgear for the bugs, and don't shoot the messenger...

 

The .62 installed in place might have introduced a security update, similar to this one here -> WNR2020 WNR2020v2 Firmware Version 1.1.0.62 - why this build is not available on the Netgear site - impossible to say. Never listed?  You talk to the community here, not to Netgear.


Biggest problem we're faing here that we don't get any backing from the Netgear consumer BU

 

 

Message 7 of 17
antinode
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> [...] it does not offer a plain access point mode as per the fine
> documentation, [...]

 

   "not documented" and "doesn't work" are spelled differently for a
reason.  My guess is still that it will work properly if the provided
instructions are followed.

Message 8 of 17
schumaku
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5


@antinode wrote:

My guess is still that it will work properly if the provided
instructions are followed.


Disabling DHCP (as designed when operating as a router) seems to be workable - the DNS capturing remains (as on many elderly Negear routers) still in place.

Message 9 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

@antinodethanks for replying, but I would appreciated less aggressiveness.

if I forget to write "address" in IP address, you do not need to link Wikipedia articles back to me.

also, I don't need to be reminded that an Ethernet cable has two ends.

saying stuff like "you connect the LAN cable only?" is a way of saying that IF YOU connected the LAN cable only, THEN... which is not lost in translation ("tooth ache? use sensodyne.") so please be more patient.

 

in any case, @schumaku makes great points.

it very well might be that you solved the futuristic firmware version riddle, thanks for that!

I will definitely not downgrade to the last version available on Netgear website, then.

 

> This makes it impossible using these crap routers as plain access points - say thank you Netgear

> for the bugs, and don't shoot the messenger...

 

I came on the forum precisely to have access to this kind of community wisdom.

if that is the case, that is, that a bug prevents a simply setup of AP mode, then there is not a lot I can do, I'll leave the full second subnet.

do you have any more info on that? e.g. a thread that discusses this bug for other routers?

I might read through and understand whether I'm observing the same symptoms.

 

> Disabling DHCP (as designed when operating as a router) seems to be workable - the DNS

> capturing remains (as on many elderly Negear routers) still in place.

 

precisely, the DHCP part is (well, might be) fine but I fear there is something wrong with the DNS queries.

I might use the wrong technical terms for this, that's why I opt for "feelings".

 

still, I am not an idiot and I understand I am talking to fellow customers, and thanks for that!, not customer support.

I will definitely remember this before buying another Netgear product though...

 

hopefully I'll retry once again following all the steps and I will report here once I do.

Message 10 of 17
schumaku
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

It's tricky to find issues when things apparently change in a L2 bridge. One could only proof that by running a DNS query on a wireless connected system and check if the query does show up outside. Simply run a nslookup google.com and see what happens...

 

Worth mentioning: It's not a Netgear's issue if people are buying products not supporting a feature my friend.

Message 11 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> Worth mentioning: It's not a Netgear's issue if people are buying products not supporting a feature my friend.

 

well, I'm not trying to use an access point as a router, but the other way around.

it's a smaller subset of features, so it would be trivial to support, worst case a few lines here and there in the firmware.

I'm not asking for much.

 

anyhow, I'm trying again.

1. I've reset the Netgear,

2. I've disconnected all cables,

3. I've reconnected the power cable,

4. I've connected one laptop to one of the LAN ports on the Netgear,

5. I've opened 192.168.1.1,

6. I've said NO to Netgear as it was complaining about no internet,

7. I've browsed to the advanced LAN config,

8. I've tried to change the IP address for the Netgear box from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.253,

ERROR: I cannot change any setting at all, I just a get a "403 Forbidden" frame.

the same happens if I try and disable DHCP, or anything else, or if I change password in the router from the default "password".

 

so, yeah, I don't know what I could do.

is this yet another bug?

 

 

Message 12 of 17
schumaku
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5


@bugmenot2 wrote:

well, I'm not trying to use an access point as a router, but the other way around.

it's a smaller subset of features, so it would be trivial to support, worst case a few lines here and there in the firmware.

I'm not asking for much.


While you might be right from the technical view - an Access Point mode not part of the implemented specification. Anything else isn't relevant I'm afraid. 

 


@bugmenot2 wrote:

8. I've tried to change the IP address for the Netgear box from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.253,

ERROR: I cannot change any setting at all, I just a get a "403 Forbidden" frame.


It probaly has changed the LAN IP and the UI can't continue or does not redirect to the changed IP address. Consumer garbage ...

Message 13 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> It probaly has changed the LAN IP and the UI can't continue or does not redirect to the changed IP address. Consumer garbage ...

 

no, it has not changed anything. Smiley Sad

I can even reboot and it will still sit at 192.168.1.1 ...

 

I'll probably try with a firmware downgrade at v54 and see what happens.

Message 14 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

downgraded firmware to v54 -- everything works as expected now!

 

the 403 Forbidden bug was quite annoying and, I guess, was what made me stray from the suggested steps in the tutorial.

View solution in original post

Message 15 of 17
antinode
Guru

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> [...] I don't need to be reminded that an Ethernet cable has two ends.

 

   So you say, but I still don't see where you revealed where the two
ends of your "the LAN cable" actually go.  I have what might be called a
"the LAN cable" here, too, but you have no idea what mine might connect
to what.

 

> 8. I've tried to change the IP address for the Netgear box from
> 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.253,
> ERROR: I cannot change any setting at all, I just a get a "403
> Forbidden" frame.

 

   Any "403" error from these gizmos is evidence of a firmware defect.

 

> downgraded firmware to v54 -- everything works as expected now!

 

   As it says in the guide, "What could go wrong?"  (You seem to have
expanded the envelope a little on that one.)

Message 16 of 17
bugmenot2
Apprentice

Re: How to avoid subnet with JWNR2010v5

> So you say, but I still don't see where you revealed where the two

> ends of your "the LAN cable" actually go. I have what might be called a

> "the LAN cable" here, too, but you have no idea what mine might connect

> to what.

 

there is a difference between asking for more information and mocking the poster.

you can always ask to be explicit, but if you treat people like idiots they will never like it, whether they are idiots or not.

 

I had a LAN cable going from either the WAN port or a LAN port of the Netgear (depending on the try, as I explained) and it was going to the LAN port of my main router.

that was evident based on what I said the behavior was on LAN/LAN connections (that is, wired clients were getting the IP address from the DHCP of the main router, etc).

there aren't other ports I could have used on the main router, are there?

if I used its WAN port I would have probably bricked my entire working network.

also, bringing this up again AFTER I've reported that the issue was a badly designed firmware is kind of unnecessary, so I guess you really need to have the last word.

 

> Any "403" error from these gizmos is evidence of a firmware defect.

 

and this should be evident how?

the user manual does not say anything about that.

how should I know that Netgear ships products with faulty DEFAULT firmware?

I thought there was some error on the basic HTTP authentication side that was due to not having reset the password, or stuff like that, and I was going through an endless cycle of resetting the router and changing the password, hoping it would fix itself.

also, how should I know that most Netgear products share this bug, or anything else?

if I don't see a page or thread specific to my model, I treat information with a pinch of salt.

why wouldn't Netgear provide a guide like this, since having it as an easy setup is out of the question?

I have read a lot of threads to get a picture as complete as it could be, yet you pulled my leg in your FIRST sentence talking about psychics... wow.

 

> As it says in the guide, "What could go wrong?" (You seem to have

> expanded the envelope a little on that one.)

 

was that a rethorical question?

 

I appreciate your deside to help others, but you have a really mean behavior that really stands in the way for (some) folks to be as appreciative as they can be.

believe it or not, I'm no moron and I'm technically proficient, yet I could not foresee that the ONLY way to fix this was to DOWNGRADE the firmware.

if I had the proper firmware on, I probably wouldn't have come here for help and would have made it on my own, no guide needed.

if lots of people have the same issues, maybe the guide isn't as informative as it could be?

for example, it does not say that the Netgear router REFUSES to update the firmware (I had downloaded the v54 IMG file on my laptop) if it's not connected to the WAN, or on the other hand that the Netgear REFUSES to change its IP address if the WAN address has been assigned and it's overlapping, even though that would change with a reboot.

so, again, there might be other steps in your guide to be added, talking about possible firmware updates, or WHEN to connect or disconnect the WAN/LAN or LAN/LAN cables.

 

bottom line: chill out and thanks for the limited help.

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