Reply

LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

In testing my connection from my computer plugged directly into my ISP connection, I get 40 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up.

However, when I plug the same computer into the WNDR4500 LAN port and connect the WNDR4500 WAN port to my ISP connection, the performance changes to 40 Mbps down and 15 Mbps up. Note that wireless is not in the mix here at all.

According to a router throughput test on www dot smallnetbuilder dot com / lanwan/router-charts/view, this router should be capable of up to 831 Mbps LAN to WAN throughput, so I don't think that the router (operating properly) is the problem.

I have tried all the basics (that I could think of) to fix the problem. I am using the latest publicly available firmware (V1.0.0.58_1.0.13). I have tried resetting the router to default settings.

I just spent almost two hours on Netgear Chat support. After trying things that I have already tried, plus tweaking the MTU and some settings for 2.4 GHz wireless, they suggested that I simply return the router as their only solution.

Elsewhere on this forum, I have read of a firmware v1.0.0.59 that allegedly resolves some bandwidth issues. When I asked Netgear Chat support about that, they at first claimed that it didn't exist and that there was no bandwidth issues with the v1.0.0.58 firmware. However, later they told me that there was a beta test group that had access to the v1.0.0.59 firmware, but that they didn't know how I could join.

So, has anyone else seen this issue? Is there some setting that I am missing, or is there indeed a firmware bug?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Message 1 of 49
Nicaaw
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

This issue is known by the WNDR4500 technical engineers and is confirmed to be resolved in the next official firmware version due to be released any day.
Message 2 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Thanks for the update.

I wish Netgear tech support would have provided this information. I think it unfair to the techs if Netgear hasn't given them the information and other resources to do their job. If they had given me the answer posted here, I would have been off of chat within 5 minutes instead of wasting 2 hours of both their time and mine.
Message 3 of 49
taekwon3dan
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Maybe it is specific to your ISP, but I am using V1.0.0.58_1.0.13, and I get my fully provisioned download/upload from FIOS (43 down/35 up) through an old gigabit port-connected PC. So I really doubt that the firmware is to blame.

Could it be some setting on your PC LAN card?
Message 4 of 49
Joe_
Apprentice

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

brian_hammerhead wrote:
In testing my connection from my computer plugged directly into my ISP connection, I get 40 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up.

Are you sure about this information? What is the actual download and upload speeds in your package with your ISP? Normally, in all ISP packages I've come across upload speed is always way less than download speed. Something doesn't seem right.
Message 5 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

taekwon3dan wrote:
Could it be some setting on your PC LAN card?


It is quite possible that something on my computer is set to conflict with the WNDR4500.

Of course I am not changing any settings between connecting to the ISP portal and the WNDR 4500. When I connect directly to the portal I consistently see 40 Mbps down and 40 Mpbs up (give or take).

I played around with Jumbo frames, but that didn't seem to make a difference through the ISP. I suspect that will help with local traffic, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

Do you have some settings for my LAN card that you would recommend?

I am using:
HP Quad Core Workstation class notebook (fast)
Windows 7 64-bit pro
8 GB RAM
Intel 82567LM Gigabit Network card

Jumbo Packet: (Default Disabled. Also tried 9014 bytes with no change)
Link Speed & Duplex: Auto negotiate
Prioity & VLAN: Enabled
Receive Buffers: (Default 256. Also tried 512 with no change)
Transmit Buffers: 512

Any suggestions for settings would be appreciated.
Message 6 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Joe_ wrote:
Are you sure about this information?


Joe,

Yes, I am sure of the information. The test is from my computer to speakeasy.net/speedtest using the Los Angeles, CA location.

I admit that I have a strange (but wonderful) ISP connection. It is actually a new test we are doing with them. I have a 1000 Mbps dual fiber link both up and down. I am pretty sure that the speed test measurements that I am seeing when I plug into the ISP portal and test to Los Angeles (40 Mpbs up and 40 Mbps down) are measuring the bottleneck somewhere after the ISP.

Very soon we will start testing point-to-point within the ISP. Early indications are that I will see close to 700 Mbps.

I am testing the WNDR4500 router. Others are testing other routers. I selected the WNDR4500 because of its throughput benchmark tests and good customer reviews. At these speeds, the technology inside the router is critical.
Message 7 of 49
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.


I admit that I have a strange (but wonderful) ISP connection. It is actually a new test we are doing with them. I have a 1000 Mbps dual fiber link both up and down. I am pretty sure that the speed test measurements that I am seeing when I plug into the ISP portal and test to Los Angeles (40 Mpbs up and 40 Mbps down) are measuring the bottleneck somewhere after the ISP.

Very soon we will start testing point-to-point within the ISP. Early indications are that I will see close to 700 Mbps


http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/31621-netgear-wndr4500-retest

seems like router may able to handle 700Mbps if that can be achieved

just curious who is providing fat pipe of fiber?Smiley Happy
VPN Case Study

VPNCASESTUDY.COM

"Our Second To None VPN Related Setup Case Study[/COLOR][/URL]

"One Stop Solution To Your Netgear VPN Connectivity"

*Visit the site for Non-VPN related Doc & Links* [Windows & Mac user/support]





June Mizoguchi-
Message 8 of 49
taekwon3dan
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

brian_hammerhead wrote:


Do you have some settings for my LAN card that you would recommend?

I am using:
HP Quad Core Workstation class notebook (fast)
Windows 7 64-bit pro
8 GB RAM
Intel 82567LM Gigabit Network card

Jumbo Packet: (Default Disabled. Also tried 9014 bytes with no change)
Link Speed & Duplex: Auto negotiate
Prioity & VLAN: Enabled
Receive Buffers: (Default 256. Also tried 512 with no change)
Transmit Buffers: 512

Any suggestions for settings would be appreciated.


Here are mine (Realtek PCI GBE Family Controller) working well with FIOS Ethernet connection:

Auto Disable Gigabit = Disabled
Auto Disable PHY = Disabled
Flow Control = Enabled
Interrupt Moderation = Enabled
IPV4 Checksum Offload = Rx & Tx enabled
Jumbo Frame = Disabled
Large Send Offload (IPV4) = Enabled
Network Address = Not Present
Priority & VLAN = Enabled
Receive Buffers = 512
Shutdown Wake On LAN = Enabled
Speed & Duplex = Auto negotiation
TCP Checksum Offload (IPV4) = Rx and Tx Enabled
Transmit Buffers = 128
UDP Checksum Offload (IPV4) = Rx and Tx enabled
Wake On LAN Capabilities = Pattern Match & Magic Packet
WOL & Shutdown Link Speed = 10 Mbps First
Message 9 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Update:

I have tried a number of additional things to get this router to perform. The short summary is that nothing that I have tried has fixed the upload speed problem through the router. If I bypass the router, I can consistently get 40 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up. If I go through the router, I consistently get 40 Mbps down and only 15 Mbps up.

1) I have applied the latest firmware (v1.0.0.70_1.0.18). No improvement in upload speed. The release notes indicate that the firmware update improves WiFi to LAN speeds.

2) I acquired a second WNDR4500 to determine if my first unit was defective. Out of the box, it exhibits the exact same problem. After updating the firmware on the second router, no change. It appears to be a design flaw rather than an isolated one-off defect with the first router.

3) I adjusted my computer's network card settings to be similar with those posted by taekwon3dan (Thanks!). No change. I still have the upload performance problem.

4) I tried another computer on the network (Linux server with a very fast GB Ethernet card). Same issue. The performance was almost identical. It appears that this isn't a problem with the settings on my computer since multiple computers experience the same LAN to WAN upload performance problem.

5) I tried tweaking all of the WAN Setup settings (Advanced > Setup > WAN Setup). I suspected that perhaps one of the settings on the router was eating up the bandwidth. I tried each of them one at a time, but the performance never improved. It also appears that the WAN port does not support Jumbo frames because the largest MTU that can be set is 1500. I am not sure that my ISP supports jumbo frames, but I thought that I would try.


So, as you can see, I am running out of ideas. Based on my troubleshooting, it appears that the problem is inside the router somewhere. Since taekwon3dan reports getting 35 Mbps upload speed, then I believe it should be possible to fix this issue. My guess is that it is some setting inside the router, but I don't know what to try.

Is anyone else getting more than 15 Mbps upload speed through a WNDR4500 to their ISP?

If so, I am curious which settings you have changed from the factory default.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have!
Message 10 of 49
taekwon3dan
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Brian -

The test results differ from server to server, so you may also try a different test/server. FYI, here are my results, the first being a Verizon FIOS speedtest and the second from speedtest.net (they differ somewhat even when run back to back):

Verizon FIOS Broadband Speed Test:
Speed Test for the Mid-Atlantic region

We have finished your connection speed test for VA - Virginia.

Your download
speed is
41.527 Mbps.

Your upload
speed is
36.034 Mbps



From speedtest.net:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1656474367.png
Message 11 of 49
taekwon3dan
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Brian -

The more I think about this, it can't be the speed test server (duh!). You had stated that when connected directly, you do get 40/40.

Since it is highly improbable that two Netgears in a row would be defective, the only conclusion must be that there is something particular about either the ISP or the Netgear that makes the two incompatible.

I hope you find the answer to this mystery.
Message 12 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

taekwon3dan,

Thanks for posting your results. I decided to try speedtest.net to see my results both through the WNDR4500 and directly to the ISP portal. Here are my results:

Through Router:
Test 1: Down = 23.70, Up = 18.16
Test 2: Down = 29.33, Up = 15.50
Test 3: Down = 25.64, Up = 13.41

Direct to ISP Portal:
Test 1: Down = 32.08, Up = 74.82
Test 2: Down = 22.21, Up = 71.41
Test 3: Down = 26.63, Up = 68.88


I also tried again at the same time with speakeasy.net/speedtest.

Through Router:
Test 1: Down = 41.28, Up = 13.57
Test 2: Down = 37.63, Up = 12.99
Test 3: Down = 40.53, Up = 13.45

Direct to ISP Portal:
Test 1: Down = 42.44, Up = 43.69
Test 2: Down = 44.99, Up = 41.17
Test 3: Down = 37.47, Up = 43.28


It looks like speedtest.net demonstrates the problem even more clearly with the upload speed being 4.5 slower when going through the router!

I wonder what others are seeing for speed test results when connecting directly to their portal and comparing to the speed through the router - especially those with very fast ISP connections.

If others are willing to test and post their results, we may find that there is a bug in the router. You may help contribute to a fix that can increase your Internet performance.

Any takers? Smiley Happy
Message 13 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

BTW, for those that may be just joining this thread, all of these speed tests are testing the throughput of the WIRED ports.

They are using WIRED connections with good cables (cat 6 or 5e) from the computer to the router and the router to the portal. You will want to eliminate the possibility of cable issues, so be sure to use the same cables for both the "Through Router" test and the "Direct to ISP Portal" test. When you do the "Direct to ISP Portal" test, use the same cable that you used from the wall to the router when you did the "Through Router" test.

Wireless is disabled for all of these tests.

Thanks again to anyone that posts their results. Smiley Happy
Message 14 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

taekwon3dan,

While I am waiting for others that may help with a test through their router compared to directly to their ISP, I would like to ask you about some of your router settings off of the forum. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to Personal Message (PM) you on this forum. Would you mind contacting me?

You can use the email alias: stone_netgear.forum (at) byu.edu

Thanks a ton.
Message 15 of 49
taekwon3dan
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

brian_hammerhead wrote:
taekwon3dan,

I wonder what others are seeing for speed test results when connecting directly to their portal and comparing to the speed through the router - especially those with very fast ISP connections.

If others are willing to test and post their results, we may find that there is a bug in the router. You may help contribute to a fix that can increase your Internet performance.

Any takers? Smiley Happy


That would be an interesting test for my FIOS connection, but it is not possible. The router is connected to an optical network terminal (ONT) outside the house. A PC connected to the ONT will not get a connection. There is no "modem" to speak of other than an ONT. The router is connected to the ONT by CAT 5e.

I will email you my address, and will be happy to give you any of the settings.
Message 16 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Update:

This is looking more and more like a flaw in the WNDR4500 code.

taekwon3dan graciously sent me a backup of his router configuration. I loaded these settings in my router to ensure that we had identical settings. Here are the results using his settings:

Through Router:
Test 1: Down = 40.70, Up = 13.65
Test 2: Down = 39.02, Up = 13.85
Test 3: Down = 39.85, Up = 13.62

Direct to ISP Portal:
Test 1: Down = 36.17, Up = 42.80
Test 2: Down = 38.90, Up = 43.66
Test 3: Down = 41.39, Up = 43.82

As you can see, there is no difference. When I use the Netgear router, uploads take 3 times longer compared to directly connecting to the ISP portal. Because of his configuraiton, taekwon3dan cannot test directly to his ISP portal, but I am pretty sure that he would see around 3 times faster uploads if he did.

This result is repeatable using multiple computers, two different routers, working with Netgear tech support to tweak parameters, and using another person's router settings.

Can anyone else test their upload speeds by bypassing the router and comparing the speeds through the router?

If others see the same, then that would clinch this as a Netgear issue.
Message 17 of 49
taekwon3dan
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

brian_hammerhead wrote:
Update:

Because of his configuraiton, taekwon3dan cannot test directly to his ISP portal, but I am pretty sure that he would see around 3 times faster uploads if he did.


Actually, no. I am getting pretty much all that I am provisioned for, which is 43 down and 35 up with the same configuration you just tested. FIOS will not give 3 times more than I am getting - that I am sure about.

I consistently get about 30 to 35 upload. I think there is a compatibility issue with your ISP.
Message 18 of 49
vypregts
Novice

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

I'm seeing the same thing on a 35/35 FiOS connection. I'm getting my provisioned download speed consistently, but my upload is inconsistent and far lower than it should be. I've seen speeds down to the 3-5 megabit range through the router, but most are in the mid teens.

My setup is ethernet straight from the ONT (no MOCA here) to either my desktop PC or the WNDR4500. When testing through the WNDR4500 my PC is the only active connection (wired).

Here's a quick sampling I collected:

With WNDR4500:

Speakeasy.net (Seattle):
Test 1: 36.00/16.56
Test 2: 35.94/18.44
Test 3: 35.97/15.37

SpeedTest.net (Portland):
Test 1: 35.93/6.95
Test 2: 36.01/8.42
Test 3: 35.94/8.05

TowerStream.com (Seattle):
Test 1: 35.96/16.95
Test 2: 35.98/18.24
Test 3: 35.97/17.28

Without WNDR4500:

Speakeasy.net (Seattle):
Test 1: 31.05/26.08
Test 2: 33.32/22.56
Test 3: 35.84/25.45

SpeedTest.net (Tacoma):
Test 1: 34.21/24.42
Test 2: 35.93/27.84
Test 3: 35.92/27.02

TowerStream.com (Seattle):
Test 1: 35.95/25.62
Test 2: 36.30/26.86
Test 3: 36.11/25.72

Something is not right here. I too have spent hours trying settings, including wiping my settings and trying factory defaults to no avail. Firmware is up to date.

I'm about at my wits end here, if I don't figure this out quickly I'll go buy a Cisco ASA and call it a day with this consumer level gear. This should make a nice and affordable dual band AP, but its routing is not impressing me.
Message 19 of 49
Ghettorat
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Yes i am experiencing the same, from an earlier post:

Speedtest with WNDR4500:


Speedtest with cable straight to wall bypassing WNDR4500:


Confirming the slow upload performance on this router. I found it strange that my upload speeds dropped from around 85mb/s to around 30mb/s after i got this router (bought it as an "upgrade" from my last 2 buffalo with dd-wrt which had no issues).

So today I tested with cable straight to the wall (fibre at home) and through the router to the same speedtest server. Surprise surprise. Terrible upload speeds on this router. If a fix doesn't come or a dd-wrt compatible firmware is out in a week or two this router is going back. Having problems with remote access being blocked alot as potential dos attacks too.

This is supposed to be a performance router but it performs worse than a 50 dollar one... (yes wireless is good but that's it for now).

From this thread http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=71368

Not resolved.
Message 20 of 49
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Complaining here may be of no help since this is primarily a user run forum.

Open a ticket at my.netgear.com. The more consumers who report this issue the better.
Message 21 of 49
brian_hammerhea
Aspirant

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

In response to the recent posts, I have tested this router extensively and I believe that there is a serious design defect in the upload capabilities. I really wanted to like this router, but for those with high speed connections, I can't recommend buying the WNDR4500.

I wish that Netgear had a better way to escalate these issues to resolution. After spending hours with Netgear technical support, the only response I got from Netgear was "return it as defective". Of course I have reproduced the problem on two brand new routers, thus I believe there is a design defect rather than a manufacturing defect. I know of no effective way to let Netgear know that they have a defective product. Perhaps logging a ticket will help as StratmanX suggests. *shrug*

I am sure that others will want to know of routers that will work with high speed connections. If you have suggestions of other routers, please post them here.
Message 22 of 49
onebyside
Novice

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

Shaw cable coming tomorrow to install 50/3 Mbit, shall see how it goes.
Message 23 of 49
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

If I had ISP upload bandwidth great enough to test then I would. I have 5 Mbps upload and am able to utilize it as expected.

The more people that complain of this issue using my.netgear.com then the sooner upper level tech support or an engineer will begin to address it.

FYI - Reading forums over at SmallNetBuilder.com concerning other manufacturer's routers it seems that upload throughput is commonly throttled, some more than others.
Message 24 of 49
vypregts
Novice

Re: LAN to WAN upload throughput is lacking.

I've submitted a case, we'll see what happens.

I'm going to be testing a Cisco ASA 5505, while it's approximately double the cost of this (and has no wireless) I have every reason to expect that it will not suffer this problem. I will attempt to use the WNDR4500 in AP mode as its wireless performance seems to be good.
Message 25 of 49
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
Announcements