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Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

ercbul
Aspirant

WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

Hi all
I have a WNDR4500 which I'm on the whole very pleased with. My main PC is upstairs and connected at present via a WNDA4100 usb adapter on the 5Ghz channel. The signal has to pass through a wooden floor and a brick wall. Whilst good it sometimes struggles streaming very high bitrates to my streamer downstairs (hardwired directly to the router).

I have an ethernet cable which passes from the room my computer is currently in to a bedroom which is directly above the router. My question is whether a 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge mode directly above the router (just 1 wooden floor between them) would likely give me faster speeds than my current setup?

Anyone got any experience / advice re similar setups?

Cheers
Message 1 of 20
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

First, tell us what "very high bitrates" means in Mbps.

Second, unless the router is in the same or next room as the location you are streaming the video to, then you should not expect Bluray to stream without issues. Even in the same room you may experience problems depending on signal interference in your location.

Third, your best options in descending order for high throughputs are wired ethernet, MoCA, Powerline plugs, WiFi, tin cans and string.

Since everyone's home environment is different, with its own set of particular issues to data transfer, the only way you will know if a particular solution will work for you is to try it. However, knowing the Mbps data rate you are trying to transmit may narrow the field of reasonable options for you.
Message 2 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

StratmanX wrote:
Third, your best options in descending order for high throughputs are wired ethernet, MoCA, Powerline plugs, WiFi, tin cans and string.


Thanks for the reply but I'm after the advice of anyone who has tried 2 routers in bridge mode to tell me if they noticed a significant increase in throughput - All the above really tells me is the hierachy of different networking technologies which I'm already well aware of.

I had a hardwired gigabit lan in my last house got a bit spoiled as I could stream full bluray without a glitch. My current setup streams x264 1080p bluray rips without a problem but struggles with high bitrate bluray. I transfer the latter to an external hard drive. Anything below 25-30Mbps it tends to manage 99% of the time but I'd be willing to fork out for a second router if it provided a little more stability / throughput.

So again, thanks for the advice but I'm not a noob and I'm really after some advice relating to the question I asked
Message 3 of 20
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

If you are getting weak signal and has ethernet cable then use send 4500 as AP

http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/965
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June Mizoguchi-
Message 4 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

jmizoguchi wrote:
If you are getting weak signal and has ethernet cable then use send 4500 as AP

http://kb.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/965


I'm not getting a weak signal - I'm just trying to find out whether anyone has tried a wndr4500 in bridge mode and whether it provided any significant improvement over using a usb adapter.

I'm really not sure what benefit you think adding a second router - hardwired to my current router- in the same room will have???? If that was the case why wouldn't I just move the first router? Unless I'm not understanding your point that's a pretty odd (and expensive) suggestion Smiley Tongue
Message 5 of 20
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

Bride mode would not make may difference and bridge is of adding additional router and not for 4100
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June Mizoguchi-
Message 6 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

jmizoguchi wrote:
Bride mode would not make may difference and bridge is of adding additional router and not for 4100


I'm sorry I don't understand what you just typed
Message 7 of 20
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

If signal is good then even bother with bridge mode.

If have issues not reaching them you would bridge too router wirelessly or use URL using existing cat5
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June Mizoguchi-
Message 8 of 20
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

Theoretically, any thing that closes the distance between devices should improve performance, so your question is not much of one. People have bridged 4500's and it has worked for them. Will it work for you or is it overkill has yet to be determined.

But, apparent signal strength, however you are measuring it, is not the end all when it comes to sustained throughput. Additional factors other than physical barriers may be at play, which I'm sure you already know about.

Before you make purchases, you could try measuring throughputs of the locations of your server, TV client and potential bridged router sites with iperf/jperf, LAN Speed Test or some other software. Then you will have data to determine whether the throughput at the bridged router position will be sufficient for your needs downstream. Of course, you will still need to determine what your Mbps needs are (which you did not answer before).

Whatever you decide upon, you will only know if that solution will work after you try it, and do so on a somewhat sustained basis, since everyone's home has varying WiFi characteristics. So, purchase from a business that has a friendly return policy.

Have you looked at the ASUS EA-N66 Dual-Band Wireless-N900 Gigabit Ethernet Adapter? Less expensive than a WNDR4500.
Message 9 of 20
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

Taking two router wireless connecting has an throughout issues so either use 4500 as AP or get extender such as wn2500rp
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June Mizoguchi-
Message 10 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

@jmizoguchi - I'm still very unsure what you're trying to say - an access point setup seems to make no sense - how would another hardwired router help?? I don't understand the first part of the sentence and the wn2500rp doesn't even support 450mbps so would seem to be a rather bad idea.

@StratmanX - The Asus adapter looks like a possibility although I'm still going to have to buy one to find out.... which kind of negates the point of asking on here to see if anyone has already tried it.

Your first reply actually got me thinking and I've been having a look at the MoCA options. The NETGEAR MoCA Coax-EN Adapter Kit MCAB1001 Bridge looks like it may be an option for me as I have a Virginmedia cable connection in both rooms. The only problem is they only seem to available to import from the USA which makes returns a bit of a bitch. I sure do miss my Cat5e LAN at the old house :-(

Decisions decisions. I'd still be interested if anyone has tried both bridge and usb adapter in the same situation with 450mbps devices.
Message 11 of 20
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

Look for extender that has 450Mbps

MoCa or power line device is only device can mak virtual line and use another 4500 as AP
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June Mizoguchi-
Message 12 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

All great advice I'm sure, but again completely unrelated to the question I'm asking .

I think it's becoming quite clear that you don't understand what I'm asking so I'd appreciate if you'd stop posting and I'll wait and see if anyone has any experience of comparing bridge vs USB adapter throuput - that is ALL I'm interested in - I do not have a problem that needs solving.

Thanks

ercbul
Message 13 of 20
Scubbie
Apprentice

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

From what you have been describing, jmizoguchi's advice is spot on.

As I understand your question, you are looking to connect a 2nd WNDR4500 to your existing WNDR4500, correct?

How are you looking to connect the two together? The options include the following:



    Also disable the UPnP in the 2nd router.
Message 14 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

The only, only, only thing I want to know is (as per my first post) has anyone tried using a wireless bridge with a WNDR4500 and did they see a significant increase in throughput compared with a usb dongle. That's it... I do not require any other advice re different methods of networking. Thank you kindly for providing all that info but (without being big headed) I am fully aware of all of it and it has no bearing on what I asked in my first post.

So If there if there's anyone out there who has experience of using a wireless bridge with a WNDR4500, I'd be very grateful of your feedback as to whether you saw an increase in throughput compared to a USB adapter. If however you are not a person who has experience of the above scenario - I would be equally grateful if you didn't reply with general advice re networking technologies

Thanks

ercbul
Message 15 of 20
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

bridge will NEVER (wirelessly connect two devices) will make any better throughout, it reduces .. reduces to Half

using WIFi adapter connecting to the main wireless router is MOST throughput
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June Mizoguchi-
Message 16 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

If that is the case, thank you - that answers my question perfectly. I was under the impression that wireless media bridges were available with the specific function of giving faster and more robust throughput than standard usb adapters but I must have misunderstood if you say wireless bridges halve the transfer speeds.

ercbul
Message 17 of 20
StratmanX
Tutor

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

ercbul:

You may get your question(s) answered over at the Forum on http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/. Check out the General Wireless Discussion and the Wireless Buying Advice sections. I'm fairly sure someone on the Forum has used two WNDR4500's in the manner you wish to. You'll also be able to find out more about MoCA, what others have done outside the USA (which it sounds like you are), and be able to read some good reviews on devices/AP's/Bridges/etc.
Message 18 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

Thanks StratmanX - I think I'll do that
Message 19 of 20
ercbul
Aspirant

Re: WNDA4100 or 2nd WNDR4500 in bridge

jmizoguchi wrote:
bridge will NEVER (wirelessly connect two devices) will make any better throughout, it reduces .. reduces to Half

using WIFi adapter connecting to the main wireless router is MOST throughput


Just in case anyone is interested in what I was considering - I thought it might be worth mentioning that (as I kind of expected) jmizoguchi's advice is completely wrong.

I took the plunge and bought a Trendnet tew-680mb wireless bridge (another WNDR4500 seemed a bit expensive) and set it up on the 5Ghz channel with my main PC as the only wired client. Connected with the WNDA4100 my NTV550 streamer registered 40-45 MBit/s using it's built in network speed test. Connected up to the trendnet bridge it jumped to a fairly constant 70!!!

Like I mentioned originally, I never had problems streaming 1080p MKV files but missed being able to stream full Bluray as with my gigabit LAN at the old house. Amazingly - this evening we just watched the full bluray of the Transformers with DTS-HD MA track and it streamed perfectly. To be honest I didn't think it would work and everytime there was a high bitrate action scene I was waiting for the pixelisation and freezing I get with the USB adapter but it went perfectly!!

I found it took a little fiddling - I only had a 70% signal quality initially but by changing position of the router and the bridge I got it to 86% and that seems to make quite a difference. I did exactly the same with the WNDA4100 too but couldn't get over 45MBit.

So for anyone wanting to squeeze a little more out of their connection - A WNDR4500 coupled with a dedicated 3 stream wireless N bridge really has made a big difference for me
Message 20 of 20
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