Reply

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons
Aspirant

Wake On Lan

Is there a Wake On Lan functionality for the R6300?

If not, is it planned?

It's a shame that this very expensive router doesn't have this really simple feature...

Otherwise, I'm happy with it. It's a huge improvement over my old WNDR3500.
Message 1 of 23
fordem
Mentor

Re: Wake On Lan

Strictly speaking, wake-on-LAN is not a router function, and the router plays no part in it.

All wake-on-LAN requires is a LAN (for communications), a system that supports wake-on-LAN (to be woken), and a system to send the magic packet - you can even do it without the router by just connecting the two systems with a network cable.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day
Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.
Message 2 of 23
madhatter
Apprentice

Re: Wake On Lan

What are you trying to accomplish with a "WOL" feature. Are you sure it can't be accomplished on the r6300?
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Message 3 of 23
wickedneurons
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

madhatter wrote:
What are you trying to accomplish with a "WOL" feature. Are you sure it can't be accomplished on the r6300?


On my previous router, I would access the management pages remotely. There was an option that allowed me to turn on my PC this way. I don't have all of my PC's at home on all the time. So it's not an option for me to remote to one of the other machines to turn on a different one.

That's pretty much it. I don't want to have something installed on my work PC to turn on my home PC. Sometimes, I need to do this from my smartphone.

As for the "strictly speaking" person, I disagree. It CAN be a router feature. And it is on other routers. Hence the disappointment.
Message 4 of 23
madhatter
Apprentice

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons wrote:
On my previous router, I would access the management pages remotely. There was an option that allowed me to turn on my PC this way. I don't have all of my PC's at home on all the time. So it's not an option for me to remote to one of the other machines to turn on a different one.

That's pretty much it. I don't want to have something installed on my work PC to turn on my home PC. Sometimes, I need to do this from my smartphone.

As for the "strictly speaking" person, I disagree. It CAN be a router feature. And it is on other routers. Hence the disappointment.


Interesting application of the feature ... good idea!
1xRBR50 1xRBS50 2xRBS40
Message 5 of 23
fordem
Mentor

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons wrote:
As for the "strictly speaking" person, I disagree. It CAN be a router feature. And it is on other routers. Hence the disappointment.


Read my post - I never used the word feature - do you know the difference between a feature and a function? A feature is something that is optional, a function is not.

I'll repeat myself - Wake-on-LAN - does not even require a router.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day
Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.
Message 6 of 23
wickedneurons
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

fordem wrote:
Read my post - I never used the word feature - do you know the difference between a feature and a function? A feature is something that is optional, a function is not.

I'll repeat myself - Wake-on-LAN - does not even require a router.


Repeat yourself again if you like.

One more time, for the people who don't want their router to do something useful.

Also, a feature is not actually optional. A feature, as the word itself insinuates, is something FEATURED.

I bet you have the nicest cave.
Message 7 of 23
madhatter
Apprentice

Re: Wake On Lan

this is rapidly degrading ...
1xRBR50 1xRBS50 2xRBS40
Message 8 of 23
jmizoguchi
Virtuoso

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons wrote:
Repeat yourself again if you like.

One more time, for the people who don't want their router to do something useful.

Also, a feature is not actually optional. A feature, as the word itself insinuates, is something FEATURED.

I bet you have the nicest cave.


Forum is NOT a place on insult another user been ENTIRE forum is user to user ONLY.

If you do not like the products nor the forum , return the item , leave the forum and find new avenue or contact support and complain DIRECTLY using portal at my.netgear.com

End of story
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Message 9 of 23
wickedneurons
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

Really? You're not going to say anything to the guy who trolled the post in the first place? I asked a question about if the feature existed or if there were any plans for it. And the dude doesn't even address that. I ask specifically if the router can do this and he says I should do it by connecting two computers with a cable.

Thank you.
Message 10 of 23
madhatter
Apprentice

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons wrote:
Really? You're not going to say anything to the guy who trolled the post in the first place? I asked a question about if the feature existed or if there were any plans for it. And the dude doesn't even address that. I ask specifically if the router can do this and he says I should do it by connecting two computers with a cable.

Thank you.


I'll address this, no the router doesn't do it, I've been using Netgear routers for about 5 years (along with some other ones) and no this doesn't have it. I have used DD-WRT and have seen the feature, but never used it (or even knew what it did until you told us). Cool feature.

I've used DLINK, Netgear and Linksys routers and haven't seen that feature in the base firmware.

Now, with that said, you do get DD-WRT on the WNDR3700, 3800, 3400 et. al. I have the 3700 and 3400, but never installed DD-WRT so I can't say if the compatible versions have the WOL feature.

I'm running Firmware: DD-WRT v24-sp2 (11/02/09) std on my Linksys WRT54G's and that version does have the WOL tab.
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Message 11 of 23
Ephone
Tutor

Re: Wake On Lan

To do WOL in the local LAN, there is no special settings required on the router.
To do WOL remotely outside local network, it MAY be achieved by the router's port forwarding function. (wake-on-internet should be more accurate term for this case)

The magic packet is a broadcast frame carrying the MAC addresses of those devices to be waken.

If the sender is at the local, other devices under LAN would all receive the packet. Only those devices with MAC addr. registered will process the packet, and others simply discard it.

If the sender is outside the LAN, then a port-forward rule may be created to allow the magic packet going from WAN to LAN. Typically the packet is sent as an UDP datagram to port 7 or 9, but it can be different depending on the WOL application.

However, the tricky part is to configure the rule to forward the packet to the BORADCAST domain address (e.g. 192.168.1.255). Many routers do not support to specify the broadcast address as a destination address in port forwarding rules.

You may ask why is it necessary to forward the magic packet to broadcast address, but not just the specific IP address that the target PC is assigned. That's simply because the PC won't have an IP when it is turned off.
Message 12 of 23
Mars Mug
Virtuoso

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons wrote:
Really? You're not going to say anything to the guy who trolled the post in the first place?


Be careful, take a look at the list of moderators at the bottom of the forum index page. I understand your argument, I understand why you disagree with Fordem, but the tone in which you disagree is not acceptable, you have the option to completely ignore a post if you wish.

Like you I have need to power on PCs remotely, I only use routers that have this facility. Previously I used a Buffalo router (WZR-RS-G54 I think) and it had specific page for waking LAN devices, including VCN support. My current router is a Draytek Vigor 2950, it also has a page listing LAN devices where they can be activated. This is not such an unusual feature, but is more common in the small business grade routers, I do not know if the Netgear ‘Pro’ range have this but I believe they may. I don’t know of any Netgear home grade routers that have it, but third party firmware e.g. DD-WRT may.

In addition to a WoL page I also use routers which have VPN endpoint support (so you can establish a remote secure link to your LAN without a target PC having to be powered on), and Port Redirection, both are rare features in Netgear home grade routers. The VPN endpoint support along with WoL allows me to make a secure connection to my LAN, wake a PC, then operate something like VNP securely through the VPN tunnel.
Message 13 of 23
wickedneurons
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

madhatter wrote:
I'll address this, no the router doesn't do it, I've been using Netgear routers for about 5 years (along with some other ones) and no this doesn't have it. I have used DD-WRT and have seen the feature, but never used it (or even knew what it did until you told us). Cool feature.

I've used DLINK, Netgear and Linksys routers and haven't seen that feature in the base firmware.

Now, with that said, you do get DD-WRT on the WNDR3700, 3800, 3400 et. al. I have the 3700 and 3400, but never installed DD-WRT so I can't say if the compatible versions have the WOL feature.

I'm running Firmware: DD-WRT v24-sp2 (11/02/09) std on my Linksys WRT54G's and that version does have the WOL tab.


Thank you for the very civil and helpful response. Since this is a new router to me, I just wanted to ask on here, where I assumed there'd be way more knowledgable people than me, if the feature existed or was planned.

dd-wrt was super customizable and had a ton of features, but it was definitely buggy (wireless performance was definitely inconsistent, especially on N...). As a result, I want to stay away from dd-wrt because my old WNDR3500 hadn't received an updated version of dd-wrt for the longest time and I felt that maybe if I had stayed on stock, I'd have a more current firmware with less issues and better performance.

I may leave the WNDR3500 on the network just so I can access the WOL feature if I can't figure out how to implement some of the great suggestions in this thread. That router has been rebooting randomly lately, though, and this was the main reason behind my R6300 purchase.
Message 14 of 23
madhatter
Apprentice

Re: Wake On Lan

Ephone wrote:
To do WOL in the local LAN, there is no special settings required on the router.
To do WOL remotely outside local network, it MAY be achieved by the router's port forwarding function. (wake-on-internet should be more accurate term for this case)

The magic packet is a broadcast frame carrying the MAC addresses of those devices to be waken.

If the sender is at the local, other devices under LAN would all receive the packet. Only those devices with MAC addr. registered will process the packet, and others simply discard it.

If the sender is outside the LAN, then a port-forward rule may be created to allow the magic packet going from WAN to LAN. Typically the packet is sent as an UDP datagram to port 7 or 9, but it can be different depending on the WOL application.

However, the tricky part is to configure the rule to forward the packet to the BORADCAST domain address (e.g. 192.168.1.255). Many routers do not support to specify the broadcast address as a destination address in port forwarding rules.

You may ask why is it necessary to forward the magic packet to broadcast address, but not just the specific IP address that the target PC is assigned. That's simply because the PC won't have an IP when it is turned off.


OK, this is interesting but I don't understand some of the basic concepts here... specifically the magic packet. Hmmm, what is it? How does it get created and sent to the router?

How do you port forward to a MAC address? I only see IP Address in the Port Fwd screen.

Thx
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Message 15 of 23
wickedneurons
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

madhatter wrote:
OK, this is interesting but I don't understand some of the basic concepts here... specifically the magic packet. Hmmm, what is it? How does it get created and sent to the router?

How do you port forward to a MAC address? I only see IP Address in the Port Fwd screen.

Thx


I think you just have to reserve an IP for the mac address of your desired machine.

Then you set up a rule that forwards specific incoming traffic to that specific address (or maybe just to the 192.168.1.255? not sure there)

I think...
Message 16 of 23
Ephone
Tutor

Re: Wake On Lan

madhatter wrote:
OK, this is interesting but I don't understand some of the basic concepts here... specifically the magic packet. Hmmm, what is it? How does it get created and sent to the router?

How do you port forward to a MAC address? I only see IP Address in the Port Fwd screen.

Thx


Wake-on-LAN is implemented using a special network message called a magic packet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN#Magic_packet

You may also be interested in the Wake-on-Internet topic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN#Wake_on_Internet

It's not to forward the magic packet to a MAC address. It is to forward the magic packet to the entire broadcast domain. Typically if you are allowed to specify a broadcast address in a port-forwarding rule (e.g. 192.168.1.255), the router will forward packets to all LAN interfaces.

I don't know the actual implementations of those routers which provide explicit WOL support. But I know you MAY still be able to do it on a router without it, "if" the router supports forwarding packets to a broadcast address.

For example, suppose you want to wake up a local PC in your home from your office remotely. First you need a WoL application on your office PC, and configure the proper network settings as well as specifying the MAC address of your target local PC. Then you can have the application send out the magic packet.
Your home router will receive the packet but where to forward it to? It does not know your target PC because the PC is either off or in the standby mode - it does not have an IP yet (unless previous assigned IP is still cached in the router).
That's the reason the packet need to be forwarded to the all LAN interfaces, so all the client adapters will receive the packet. And WOL-supported adapters will look into the packet and see if they are the one wanted.

Again, actual implementations on routers or WoL applications may vary. This is just a concept to share.
Message 17 of 23
Mars Mug
Virtuoso

Re: Wake On Lan

Ephone wrote:
But I know you MAY still be able to do it on a router without it, "if" the router supports forwarding packets to a broadcast address.


Many routers do not, and some that did have had the feature removed because it can be exploited, Fordem knows more about that than I do.

Routers with a GUI function to wake a device simply initiate a WoL broadcast in response to a remote admin action, i.e. the remote user accesses the router admin pages, and selects the option to wake a device, the router sends the Magic Packet over the LAN, the remote user does not send a Magic Packet. That cannot be exploited in the same that that an Internet based WoL could be, since it requires login.

I don’t see any restrictions with the suggestion of using a remote sourced Magic Packet? What is there to stop anyone issuing that packet, if the router can forward it how would it know that the packet came from a legitimate source? In such an unrestricted setup it wouldn’t surprise me if the PCs on the LAN power on at unexpected times.

madhatter wrote:
OK, this is interesting but I don't understand some of the basic concepts here... specifically the magic packet. Hmmm, what is it? How does it get created and sent to the router?


That is what Fordem was trying to warn you about.

The discussion here is following two paths, yours initially was the router GUI based wake-up function that some routers implement (but not Netgear home grade) this is the one I use and is very secure if operated via VPN, and the other path is the method of remotely issuing a WoL command that the router will process to wake a LAN PC/device, this can be exploited.
Message 18 of 23
Ephone
Tutor

Re: Wake On Lan

Mars Mug wrote:
Many routers do not, and some that did have had the feature removed because it can be exploited, Fordem knows more about that than I do.

Routers with a GUI function to wake a device simply initiate a WoL broadcast in response to a remote admin action, i.e. the remote user accesses the router admin pages, and selects the option to wake a device, the router sends the Magic Packet over the LAN, the remote user does not send a Magic Packet. That cannot be exploited in the same that that an Internet based WoL could be, since it requires login.

I don’t see any restrictions with the suggestion of using a remote sourced Magic Packet? What is there to stop anyone issuing that packet, if the router can forward it how would it know that the packet came from a legitimate source? In such an unrestricted setup it wouldn’t surprise me if the PCs on the LAN power on at unexpected times.


Mars, I agree with you that there is security concern on the Port Forwarding way for Wake-on-WAN, just like there are always be risks when doing Port Forwarding on a router. 🙂
Message 19 of 23
fordem
Mentor

Re: Wake On Lan

Ephone wrote:
Mars, I agree with you that there is security concern on the Port Forwarding way for Wake-on-WAN, just like there are always be risks when doing Port Forwarding on a router. 🙂


Strictly speaking - it's not port forwarding - it's a feature known as ip directed broadcasts, and the security concerns are VERY different - which is why the ietf now mandates that all routers ship with ip directed broadcast disabled.

When you choose to create a hole through your firewall by forwarding a port, your expose your network to possible attacks, enabling ip directed broadcasts not only exposes your network, but it allows your network to be used to as a launch pad for attacks on other networks.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day
Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.
Message 20 of 23
wickedneurons
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

Ephone wrote:
Mars, I agree with you that there is security concern on the Port Forwarding way for Wake-on-WAN, just like there are always be risks when doing Port Forwarding on a router. 🙂


Here's what I ended up doing after reading about the dangers of the magic packet across the internet (Thanks to those of you who pointed out the risk in this):

I have that old WNR3500 running dd-wrt. It's in client bridge mode and connecting to the wireless network on the R6300.

I set up a port forwarding rule that will connect me to the dd-wrt router's administration page. This lets me connect to dd-wrt externally without sending the magic packet across the internet.

Once I'm in dd-wrt, I just go to the Wake On Lan page and wake up the machine I need to access externally.

Now, I understand that this might seem like very little to use an entire router for, but I've actually hooked up my xbox, ps3, and nas to this router. The xbox and nas don't have wireless, unfortunately.

But this lets me put the r6300 in an area that allows me to have better wireless signal in other parts of the house.
Message 21 of 23
Mars Mug
Virtuoso

Re: Wake On Lan

Seems like a perfectly sensible solution to me, and you are re-using an older device which must be environmentally friendly even if you need to power a separate box.
Message 22 of 23
msnancy
Aspirant

Re: Wake On Lan

wickedneurons wrote:
...I would access the management pages remotely..


I think need is Wake on WAN. the router does not support that. Wake on LAN is different from Wake on WAN.
Message 23 of 23
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