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Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Having trouble with wndr4500 via wlan to Iphones.
All windows-pcs run fine on the 4500.
An ipad also.
1 iphone also.
But 3 other iphones cannot connect.
Detects the wlan from the wndr 4500 ok, but cannot connect.
(aborts before coming to the pasword entry field.)
Same 3 iphones work ok on other wlans.
wndr4500 set up as wpa-psk2(aes), up to 450 mbps.

Same 3 iphones work ok on another wndr4500 with another setup:
wpa-psk(tkip) + wpa2-psk(aes) up to 217 mbps.

So whats so touchy with these iphones ??
Have read problems with iphones on this link:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2670373?start=0&tstart=0

Could it be that some iphones do not like 450 mbps?
Or dont they like wpa2-psk(aes)??

Thanks in advance for any comment.

regards
snofte

Same 3 iphones work ok on another wndr4500 !!!
Aspirant
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎2012-01-03

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

I have iPhone 4s now and had iPhone 4 and iPhone 3s they work the best with WPA2 AES and not more than 217mps(20mhz) they have a problem with 40mhz band (300 or 450 mhz)
Aspirant
Posts: 129
Registered: ‎2011-08-26

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Tell me how to check the connect speed on my iPhone 4S and I'll tell ya my connect speed.

I don't think they'll connect unless the SSID is broadcasting its name.

-- Chuck
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Could you maybe check the speed on your 4s through this:
http://www.speedtest.net/
Guess that you are having 802g speed, that means 54 mbps.
Right ?

regards
snofte
Aspirant
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎2011-09-25

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

you said 1 4500 is OK and the other can't work.
does all config setting are the same, just 1 use wpa2 and 1 use wpa-tkip + wpa2-ase?
Luminary
Posts: 89,285
Registered: ‎2009-01-27

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

snofte wrote:
Could you maybe check the speed on your 4s through this:
http://www.speedtest.net/
Guess that you are having 802g speed, that means 54 mbps.
Right ?

regards
snofte


Speedtest only test external. Believe op is asking to find the actual wireless connection speed #Mbps between the router and iPhone that negotiated
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June Mizoguchi-
Novice
Posts: 0
Registered: ‎2012-02-03

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Chuck_s wrote:


I don't think they'll connect unless the SSID is broadcasting its name.

-- Chuck


Not true - I've never had an exposed SSID on my 4500. All 4 iphones (3/3GS/4S + ipad) in the house connect fine. You just have to enter the SSID on the phone manually and the password. It should then remember the name and password and connect automatically whenever in range. I do have "join automatically" turned off on all, but that shouldn't matter......

Wherewolf
Luminary
Posts: 89,285
Registered: ‎2009-01-27

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

correct.. hidden broadcast should not effect on wifi devices is normal.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4199
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June Mizoguchi-
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

billshih1975 wrote:
you said 1 4500 is OK and the other can't work.
does all config setting are the same, just 1 use wpa2 and 1 use wpa-tkip + wpa2-ase?


Yes all settings are the same on both netgears, except:
no 1: speed up to 450 mbps, wpa2-psk (aes)
no 2: speed up to 217 mbps, wpa-psk(tkip)+wpa2-psk(aes)

Have seen that iphone ONLY runs on 2.4 ghz. So when netgear
on router no 1 suns dualband 2,4 AND 5 ghz (20 and 40 mhz band),
then iphone gives up !!
Does this seem logical ?

regards
snofte
Aspirant
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎2011-09-25

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

perhaps you can save the 1st and 2nd 4500 config file, then load #1 config to 2nd router and #2 config to 1st router. Then you can know if it's HW issue??
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

billshih1975 wrote:
perhaps you can save the 1st and 2nd 4500 config file, then load #1 config to 2nd router and #2 config to 1st router. Then you can know if it's HW issue??


hehe, tried something similar:
router 1 set up as original config in router 2.
router 2 set up as original config in router 1

And the problem is the same, so its not a hardware issue.
Iphones wont connect with speed 450, connects ok with speed 217 !!!

regards
snofte
Luminary
Posts: 89,285
Registered: ‎2009-01-27

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2670373?start=0&tstart=0
this links main talks about time capsule (apple products)

All windows-pcs run fine on the 4500.
An ipad also.
1 iphone also.
But 3 other iphones cannot connect



Anyway, which is actual iPhone version that connects?
you said there is 3 or 4 iPhones right.
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June Mizoguchi-
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Problem solved (?):
switched the two netgear 4500, and problem is the same.
So its not a hw issue. Some iphones wont connect. So
I did a full test:
iphone 4 connects fine on speed up to 450 mbps,
wpa.psk(tkip)+wpa2.psk(aes).
Iphone 3 will NOT connect with same setup.
Iphone 3 will NOT connect with speed up to 54 mbps, tkip encryption
Iphone 3 connects ok with speed up to 217 mbps, no encryption.
Iphone 3 connects ok with speed up to 217 mbps, wpa2-psk(aes).
What does this tell us ?:
Iphones do not like speed setup for 5 ghz-band (450 mbps) (?)
Iphone 3 does not like tkip encryption. (?)
Iphones in general are not very compatible re wi-fi, some setups work
on some models, and not on other models.(?

Any comments ?

regards
snofte


I
Luminary
Posts: 89,285
Registered: ‎2009-01-27

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Iphones do not like speed setup for 5 ghz-band (450 mbps) (?)

iPhone ONLY support 2.4G ..

Iphone 3 does not like tkip encryption. (?)

AES are better encryption anyway I would not worried between TKIP vs AES

Iphone 3 connects ok with speed up to 217 mbps, no encryption.
Iphone 3 connects ok with speed up to 217 mbps, wpa2-psk(aes).


I would say with old technology up to 300Mbps at most you will be dealing with .
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June Mizoguchi-
Aspirant
Posts: 262
Registered: ‎2011-09-22

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Good testing. Obviously some technological advances with the iPhone 4.

Seems like your best bet is 2.4 GHz band, Mode = up to 217 Mbps, and Security set to wpa2-psk(aes).

These are excellent parameters.
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Thanks all for comments. Allthough my problem now is solved with
mentioned settings, I never the less have a worry re bad compatibility
for the iphones. Suppose I try to link up with another wi-fi router
(lets say airport or cafe) with my iphone3, a router that is set up in way that will not connect to my iphone, and I am stuck. Can I be sure that I can
always connect to public wi-fi`s ? The answer now seems to be NO !
And thats not reasssuring.

regards
snofte
Luminary
Posts: 89,285
Registered: ‎2009-01-27

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

true hotspot do not use encryption base so if you go McDonalds, Starbucks etc that uses ATT base or other hospitality hotspot none uses encryption for a reason.

they control the by the portal and wireless controller will kick off user etc.

So if you go to so called public wifi and you need to use encryption is not a true hotspot anyway... some to remember.

on most cases WPA is highest that some hotspot uses a one other scenario.
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June Mizoguchi-
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

ok, so I should not worry to much re public wi-fi`s, they do not use
encryption. One last question the 4500:
the setting "wpa-psk(tkip) + wpa2-psk(aes)" which does NOT work
on the iphone3, whereas the setting "wpa-psk2(aes) DOES work:
Thought that the first setting implied that the the 4500 would try
first a tkip connection, and if not successfull, would try an aes connection.
Seems that I have misunderstood this, could someone pls explain ?

regards
snofte
Tutor
Posts: 1,845
Registered: ‎2010-12-22

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

The setting "WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]" allows your devices to use either 'WPA [TKIP]' or 'WPA2 [AES]'. I don't own a iPhone, but if I were to take a WAG, maybe the iPhone tries to use TKIP, doesn't like it and gives up after the first attempt. Besides, from your own tests and as others have already suggested, you don't need 'WPA [TKIP]'. Why not just use the better "WPA2-PSK [AES]" all by itself?

BTW1: I searched and found a recent iPhone 'User Guide' from December 2011 and thought I might include information on the amount of characters that can be used for WPA2 security. Expected WiFi words, such as AES, TKIP, WEP, WPA and others, do not exist in the document. In this regard, the 'User Guide' is useless. So I have no idea what the maximum Hexadecimal characters can be safely used in the iPhone for WPA2. Which leads me to....

BTW2: When you did your tests, did you use a temporary short and simple Passphrase in the router configuration? Using a couple characters can avoid typos when testing.

BTW3: Awhile back I read over at DSL Reports that some earlier iPhones where temperamental connecting to WiFi. IIRC, the reset procedure is:

    Perhaps not owning a iPhone I'm preaching to the choir, but do you know about this "reset"? If applicable, have you try it?
_____
WNDR3700v1 (v1.0.7.98NA) - Router uptime (d:h:m:s): 1155:02:31:46 - How To Check and Change Your Router's Firmware: http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=63234
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Thanks for all help and comments on this matter.
btw: I did use exactly the same passphrase in all tests, the routers
setup was not changed in this field.
My own conclusion after this very interesting discussion is as follows:

1.Iphones of different models do not behave in compatible manner,
a fact that is most disturbing.
2. Iphones boast of 802.11n speed, and seem to hide the fact
that they cannot support dual-band. In fact, when the netgear 4500
is configured to "up to 450 mbps", older iphone models fail to connect.
Furthermore, "true" 802.11n cannot be obtained on the iphones,
they operate only on the 2.4 ghz band.
3. Although public wi-fi`s for the most do not use encryption, thus
not creating problems for the iphones, a lot of older private routers
can create problems when configured to TKIP encryption
(as I have often seen). Think of visiting a friend with such a router, and
you cannot connect to his router with your iphone unless he changes his
router-setup !!

Summing up, iphones and wi-fi is a troublesome matter indeed !
Tanks again for all help, I have learned a lot, and have gained valuable
experience.

regards
snofte
Luminary
Posts: 89,285
Registered: ‎2009-01-27

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

2. Iphones boast of 802.11n speed, and seem to hide the fact
that they cannot support dual-band.


Apple never hide the support.. clearly states in apple site that only support 2.4ghz

3. Although public wi-fi`s for the most do not use encryption, thus
not creating problems for the iphones, a lot of older private routers
can create problems when configured to TKIP encryption


people uses encryption so called public wifi/hot spot is wrongly labeled. they are giving you a wifi access on their turf. I would not called as public wifi. Smiley Happy

Think of visiting a friend with such a router, and
you cannot connect to his router with your iphone unless he changes his
router-setup !!


You would expect that with any wifi router that has encryption on it. You can take laptop with different model you will have an issues.
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June Mizoguchi-
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Thanks for comment, this discussion is really interesting !.
Must "comment to your comment":

"quote:
You would expect that with any wifi router that has encryption on it. You can take laptop with different model you will have an issues"

I have had a whole class of students visiting, all with different laptops, old and new, big laptops, notebooks, macs, etc. ALL of them connected to
our old 3com router (54 mbps) with TKIP encryption when we gave them our password. So it seems that the iphones are much more "incompatible" than pc-s.

regards
snofte
Aspirant
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎2012-03-18

Re: Trouble wndr4500 wlan & iphone

Follow-up / new test-result, tested brand new iphone 4 with latest upgrades:

4500 setup wpa2 tkip+aes
iphone wont connect, as tested before, se above. (iphone dont like tkip)
4500 setup changed to wpa2 aes (as has worked ok before)
iphone wont connect (!! strange, this setup has worked before !!!)
4500 setup changed to "no encryption"
iphone connects ok (of course)
4500 setup changed to wpa2 aes (did not work above, has worked before)
Iphone connects ok !!!!!

conclusion:
1.
Iphone does not support tkip, and refuses to try aes even if this
is selected as second choice (tkip+aes).
2.
When iphone first has tried tkip, and given up, it will not
help to put the router at aes only. Iphone still "thinks" it
shall try tkip, and gives up.
3.
Only forcing iphoneto connect via "no encryption", can
"reset" iphone out of its trouble, so that aes only no
can be accepted.

This must be a SEVERE bug in iphone !!!
Very frustrating that iphone will not connect to routers
with tkip encryption, where a change to aes will not help
unless iphone is "tricked" to connect first with "no encryption".

any comments ?

regards
snofte
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