Wired Backhaul for WAX610 and WAX214 Access Points

[AJBello1437]

Wired Backhaul support for WAX610 and WAX214 Access Points

[schumaku]

Both the WAX610 and the WAX214 are per se APs to be used on a wired backhaul.  different from the WAX610 the 214 does not support multiple SSID to different VLANs  legend I have it right. As well, the 610 can be Insightanafed, the 214 can't.

This essentially allows to operate multiple 610 and 214 on the same network, but not with a common "Mesh" environment with sleds roaming - only the Insight managed WAC and WAX have this feature.

Completely unclear to me what.you ask for here.

[AJBello1437]

WAX610 in Extender mode only works while one of them is connected via wireless. Which is what MESH needs to function, What I would like to see is a wired extender mode instead of relying on wireless connection for subsequent WAX610 APs

[schumaku]

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@AJBello1437 wrote:

WAX610 in Extender mode only works while one of them is connected via wireless.

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The WAX610 are plain normal wireless AP usually connected to a wired network, so using that wired backhaul.

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@AJBello1437 wrote:

Which is what MESH needs to function,

The ability to use a WAX610 or e.g. a WAX540 - while operating alone or with many more WAC5xx or WAX6xx on a wired network - as a root access point, allowing to associate one or multiple WAX6xx resp. WAX550/564 as wireless connected "extenders" is (in my opinion misleadingly) designated Mesh.

My practical experience with such a set-up is limited, however we're operating many customer and own sites where many WAX6xx and WAC5xx are on a wired network, Insight managed, this Insight management (in my understanding again) allows a seamless roaming between the BSSIDs serving the same SSID on another radio, on a local or on another access point, making use of 802.11k and 802.11v.  In standalone management mode - at least the wired WAC5xx - do not offer seamless roamaing, these are standalone APs with all the disadvantages like sticky clients, no radio ressoure management information RRM between the APs and the connected clients, so the clients don't have a list of alternate BSSIDs.

Enlighten me if a config with one root WAX610 and one or multple WAX610 connected by the wireless backhaul and managed individually does offer the seamless roaming (against my expectations), unless it's Insight managed.

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@AJBello1437 wrote:

What I would like to see is a wired extender mode instead of relying on wireless connection for subsequent WAX610 APs

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All WAX6xx and WAC5xx in wired mode and under Insight management offer what marketing does designate as "Mesh" - technically it's 802.11k/v plus some. have ad-hoc bound a WAC540 I had at hand to a base WAC540 on the wied network. The WAC540 does perfectly integrate into the same "Mesh" along with all the wired WAC5xx and WAX6xx.

So either we face some misunderstandings (caused by this marketing "Insight Instant WiFi Mesh" term), or the WAX610 behave effectively different than the WAC5xx.

Taking the WAX214 into the discussion: To my knowledge the WAX21x are pure standalone Wireless Access Points for wired backhaul only. These are not offering any Mesh, any seamless roaming, and can't be used as a wireless extender connected to a WAC5xx or WAX6xx base unit. The WAX21x does allow configuring an SSID for serving both the 2.4 and 5 ghz (by default). This allows e.g some band steering between the radios on the individual WAX21x, but not to combine many waX21x into the same roaming network.

Said all that, I'm still lost what feature or functionality you are behind. It would be much easier to discsuss this in the normal community instead of the idea exchange. Still hope we find something interesting, I'm happy to push such features ahead.

[AJBello1437]

So a Wired Extender mode can't be supported instead of Wireless?

On Wireless the bandwidth when connected to the WAX610 in extender mode is lower than connecting to WAX610 wired to router. A wired Extender mode would resolve this issue. 

[schumaku]

Nobody said this. You can connect, one, two, ten or more WAX610 or WAX21x or WC5xx to a wired switched network as usual. nobody does talk of a wired backhaul in this context. Nobody does talk of an extender in this context. Just plain simple wirelless access points.

[WonKim]

For me It is not cleared the detail of the product I wish to buy. I am making a network with one POE+ NETGEAR router MS 510 TXPP and 3 WAX 610. The goal is to have the MESH network wich connect all Its segments via wired backhaul.

The user's manual inform us that MESH network is only support by the Insight App and only by wireless backhaul.

I do not understand why I can not use wired backhaul?

So can anyone explain weather can I create the MESH network with wired backhaul with 3 Wax610 and one Router MS 510 TXPP ? 

[schumaku]

The term mesh (in complete "Insight Instant Mesh WiFi network") is used only in the context of adding am additional AP where no cables can be installed - consult the fine Insight Managed WiFi 6 AX1800 Dual Band Access Point Models WAX610 and WAX610Y User Manual p.49 ff., chapter 5 "Install the Access Point in an Instant Mesh WiFi Network" - here the key points:

===

What is an Insight Instant Mesh WiFi network?
A mesh WiFi network consists of at least one mesh-capable root access point and one
or more extender access points that connect to the root access point over WiFi (see
What are a root access point and an extender access point? on page 50). The root access
point is connected over Ethernet to a router or Internet gateway and provides Internet
access to its extender access points. The root access point and extender access points
work together to cover a potentially large area with WiFi network, which is the mesh
network.
A mesh network can be a good solution if you want to bring WiFi to the following
environments:
• Nearby rooms where cabling is not available (in line of sight and in range of the
current WiFi reception)
• Neighboring office buildings (in line of sight and in range of the current WiFi
reception)
• Any environment in which you cannot run cables

===

We can argue if using the Mesh term in this context is smart or not ... it looks more like a marketing idea to me.

For the normal case with a wired switched network and the wired access points - like a bunch of WAX610 on a MS510TXPP (hard to get as there is a shortage in the delivery chain, I would suggest the MS510TXUP because of its availability and the possible Insight cloud management) everything as it lists - this alone is already much more than what most "Mesh" systems (plain 802.11k this is...!) are offering. Start your reading from the UM referred above, p.59 ff. "Manage the Basic WiFi Features" and then "Set up an open or secure WiFi network" and look where 802.11k, RRM, and 802.11v are mentioned.

So yes, of course you can!

In case you expect Fast/Seamless Roaming and the Instant Mesh WiFi as described above on your networks, at least the WAX6xx[Y] (and the WAX5xx) must be Insight managed.

[WonKim]

Thanks a lot, everything is cleared. Seamless network with no roaming between floors and locations is what I need. I can see that unit WAX610 could be nice. I still have a doubts with its speed. 1200Mbit in a 5Hz mode and 80Mhz data part is too small progress on my current Airport AC with its 1300 Mbit. May be will be better to buy Orbi Pro with his AX6000. It can open a full potential of my latest NUC who is equipped with Intel AX 201 > 2400 Mbit, and in future may be will be some devices that will be above WAX610 speeds. I could use also wired backhole in Orbi Pro AX, to create rouming free net, right?

In my possetion I have also the second router without POE+ MS 510TX who fits Orbi Pro AX perfectly, for example SXK80B3. May be you recomend me to wait a bit and buy true 6e (6Ghz) device when Orbi Pro AX with WiFi 6e will appear in the market? 

[schumaku]

The crux with Apple's WiFi is that they stuck very long to 3x3.3 systems, not only on the wireless client side, also for Airports and TimeCapsules up to thier end (Broadcom) while the rest of the world went 2x2.2 years before. With the 2x2 Intel AX2xx it will make 866 Mb/s max PHY lnk only.

The Orbi Pro WiFi 6 is "AX6000" because of it's three radios - 2400 + 2400 + 1200 where one is used for the wireless backhaul. The WAX610(Y) are indeed 1200 + 600 (reading from the Turkish coffee grounds tells us that a 2400 + 1200 variant is waiting around the door).

Said that, the costs and therefor the end user prices for WiFi 6 2400 + 1200 (competitor AP prices 250...350 USD) and 2400 + 2400 + 1200 (like an Orbi Pro WiFi 6 satellite) are much higher. 

Last but not least, WiFi 6 will require tri-band devices - because of the additional 6 GHz radio. As usual, the market leaders like Netgear push out the "first" WiFi 6E routers in 4800 + 4800 + 1200 with 12 stream configurations. This does currently sell around 600 USD each (and a good business class AP does not differ much in the hardware). As you might know, WiFi 6/6E is the first WiFi standard not having the single client max speed in mind. Much more it's about having clients with various capabilities supported concurrently. As it does not make much sense having a single big AP due to building layout and construction materials, it makes much more sense to deploy slightly slower AP, the more the better. That's why you have e.g a solution with multiple WAX610 in mind, correct? I expect the first WiFi 6E APs to be in the 2400 + 2400 + 1200 or leading edge with 4800 + 2400 + 1200 range. Time will tell.