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After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

After a firmware upgrade of M4300-8x8f from 12.0.2.17  to 12.0.7.12 all fans are not working:

 

FAN Status
 
 
 
Unit ID 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Fan-1 Error Error            
Fan-2 Error Error          

 

When the device is restarted, the fans work for 20 seconds, then they stop

 

The Fan-LED on the Frontpanel is grren the first 20 seconds, then it goes to orange

 

There was no Problem with the old Firmware.

 

Is this a known Problem? Is there a fix for it?

 

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 1 of 24
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Aspirant

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

I also have this issue after firmware upgrade. 

Chassis fans not spinning, orange warning led

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 2 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi team. thank you for your messages and the heads-up.

 

This is all normal, let me explain what is happening. After 12.0.7.12 (latest M4300 family software upgrade), the M4300-8X8F is shutting down its main fans when the ambiant temperature is under 25 degrees Celsius (77 Fahrenheit). As soon as the ambiant temperature gets warmer, fans will start again, as usual. 

 

We made this change after a consistent demand from many customers and we ran regression testing during a long time to ensure all vital and environmental parameters (MTBF etc.) stay intact. Due to its small footprint, the M4300-8X8F gets installed in many noise sensitive locations, especially when in AV environments, and turning off main fans reduces the perceived noise (only the PSU keeps running its fan, but overall this is 23dB max). 

 

Based on your feedback, and also per our plans, we will need to enhance the software presentation, as this is not an error, but intended behavior. We will make sure the GUI and the show commands in CLI reflect that.

 

I hope it clarifies@

Regards,

Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 3 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi Laurent, thanks for the update.

Just to confirm, our temps are ~9-13 degrees higher on this device than the12x12 immediately below it:

8X8:

FAN Status
 
 
 
Unit ID 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Fan-1 Error Error            
Fan-2 Error Error            
 
 
 
Temperature Status
 
 
 
Unit ID 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
MAC 54oC 54oC            
System 67oC 66oC            
Max Operating Temperature 88oC 88oC

12X12:

FAN Status
 
 
 
Unit ID 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Fan-1 OK OK            
Fan-2 OK OK            
 
 
 
Temperature Status
 
 
 
Unit ID 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
MAC 45oC 43oC            
System 54oC 52oC            
Max Operating Temperature 83oC 83oC

Hopefully this is within normal operating parameters

 

I wonder if it might have been a good idea to sort out the error status/leds at the same time as making this change?

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

Message 4 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Thank you, everything as expected. You are well below max parameters - and all components are well within their spec.

 

You are right, software will have to be "aware" as well as LED circuitry. These changes are not trivial, but this our goal to phase them in asap.

 

Keep the communication going on the Community forum, and thank you for the feedback!

 

Regards,

Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 5 of 24
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Guru

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working


@LaurentMa wrote:

We will make sure the GUI and the show commands in CLI reflect that.


Don't forget about the LED warning/error indication 8-)

Message 6 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi there

 

Update, this is going to be fixed (LED and Software GUI/CLI) in 12.0.7.15 

 

12.0.7.15 is on its way, this is the next maintenance release for M4300 series switches

 

You should see it live on https://www.netgear.com/support/product/m4300.aspx in the Download section by next week

 

Thanks again for the feedback,

Regards,

Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 7 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

awesome, thank you

Message 8 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

I understand some might want the fans off if the ambient temperature is lower than a certain amount, but these switches are getting HOT.  One says "ERROR" on the fans, and the other says "STOPPED" after the upgrade.

 

If you are going through all the trouble in updating the firmware, why wouldn't you just give us an option to keep the fans on all the time or not?

 

I would prefer the fans stay on all the time, not let it get hot, and then turn on!  These switches are not in a noise sensitive environment.

 

Please give us the option, via setting, to have them back they way they were!

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 9 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi Laurent,

 

You replied to my original support case where I reported this issue..

 

#41303601

 

I have upgraded 5 of our 8X8F switches today to 12.0.7.15, they all have ORANGE led and 'fan stopped'

 

At what temperature should the fans kick in? 

 

Can you please make this an optional setting, I understand the want to have a quiet switch if it's on your desk etc.  When they are used in a comms room, I would prefer them to be cooling themselves constantly.

 

Is there a way we can manually change the temperature range so the fans will kick start?

 

See attachment for current temps!


Thanks

 

 

Message 10 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi @LaurentMa 

 

Do you know if anything was done in regards to the fans in 8X8F switches in the new 12.0.7.17 firmware?

 

I haven't flashed any switches yet, would be nice to have some input before I go ahead with it Smiley Happy

 

Thanks

Message 11 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi,

In current firmware we have fixed the software. Bith GUI and CLI show correct OFF status when fans are shut down because ambiant temp is under 25C and the switch internal components are within spec.

Remains the amber light on the front. The LED amber color will be fixed in subsequent firmware.

I would advise you upgrade to the latest FW if you can bear with the amber FAN light.

Regards,
Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 12 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi @LaurentMa ,

 

Thanks for the swift reply.

 

Do you know if the firmware guys will be adding the option to force the fan on?

 

I don't like seeing these switches at 59 degrees when a 48 port PoE switch a few U beneath it is at 31 degrees.

Message 13 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

I will agree with others:  We must have the fans.  I ran into this trap after buying 3 of these switches, and 4 weeks later, upgraded the firmware.  Now I am sitting on these switches that are running uncomfortably hot just because someone wants to use them in their home?

 

We must have a toggle to force the fans back on immediately.  I have stopped selling Netgear switches to our customers at this point.  

 

Please let me know if you plan on doing this, and if it can be done this week?  Otherwise, we would like to return these for full credit.

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 14 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Thank you for your message. I hear you. To give you some context, thousands of these switches are used in noise sensitive environments such as broadcast trucks and other Pro AV installs. We had to accomodate with these super cost effective 8X8F model. This is the only one, all other M4300s have fans all the time.

Now I understand you and I want to thank you for staying courteous although you are uncomfortable with the running temperature (which stays within specs).

I can propose you to run another version of the M4300 firmware, before the change. This way, your fans will work all the time in the meantime.

On our side, we are going to turn this fan behavior into a setting accessible from the Web GUi and the CLI. We are receiving good feedback from our AV customer base, but you are providing strong feedback too, and I'm willing to add this to our customer enhancements list.

This won't happen in the week, we first need to assess feasibility and plan for it. I can't commit for an ETA at this stage, but we're going to do our best to make it happen in a reasonable time-frame, I hope within a quarter.

Until then, I hope you can download another firmware. Thank you.

Regards,
Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 15 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Thanks for your reply.

 

Knowing that it's being resolved puts me at ease.

Message 16 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

You do realize that the NETGEAR Firmware for the NAS that does about the same thing just came back and caused massive failure on a lot of our NAS boxes, right?  It is not good to "turn the fans off" or "let it get hot before turning on fans".

 

We have now had to go back into every NAS and turn the fans back on "MAX" as the update turned them to "smart".  We were losing hard drives all over the place before we realized this happened.  

 

IN THEORY what you say is true, it SHOULD be ok, but in a 6 month time frame it is not.  It will cause problems by letting it get to higher temperatures.  I would estimate that the average lifetime will be cut in half by this "feature".  This is suposed to be a DATA CENTER product, and is thousands of dollars.  This is not Netgear you purchase at Best Buy.

 

Please give us an override.  It should be an emergency at this point, and also should not take more than 1 hour of coder time.  There is no excuse for not putting a slider on the screen that simply turns the fans  on.

 

Losing the last bit of faith I have in Netgear,

National Computer

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 17 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi GeraldNCC

I can't let you write such certifiably false statements in this thread. Please reconsider. We have assessed the thermal and the MTBF is all possible ways on our M4300-8X8F switch, and we have internal components that rigorously meet their requirements with fans off when ambiant temp is under 25C. A switch is not a NAS, and you are confused I'm afraid. Our MTBF is unchanged at 25C, which you can read in the M4300 datasheet.

That being said, I'm not going to repeat what I've said yesterday, we shall have a setting for fans in the M4300-8X8F soon.

I won't comment on your coder time, please realize this is almost an insulting statement. Maybe you don't know that a switch is not a storage box. M4300 software has millions of lines. Please remain courteous. Regards,
Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 18 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

I am perfectly aware of the difference in a NAS and a SWITCH.  What you are missing is that HEAT is the killer of all electronic items.  If kept at the proper temperature, it will last longer.

 

I've been in this industry for 40+ years, and design circuits.  Most of the time, If you put two idential circuits in two different temperatures, the one that is lower will last longer (considering normal temperatures and same humidity).

 

Why do you think that things fail at a different rate?  Most of it is because of temperature and humidity variances.  We have controlled servers that have been running 20 years without a problem, and others in uncontrolled (hotter) environments that don't make it to 3 years.  We are next to a company, which is in the business of testing components for large companies to figure out MTBF.  They stress test everything at different temperatures to give an average MTBF so that the manufacturers can assign warranty lengths for their products.  They do this for every batch.  The thing that stands out is that properly maintained (lower) temperatures almost always last longer.  There is actually a scale they can come up with that will allow them to fail a product in weeks, and be able to tell accurately under "normal" situations when it will fail in real time (by adjusting current, temperature and humidity).

 

I appreciate that this switch is running "under design temperature", but you are missing the point stated above.  If we have it in an abient temperature controlled room of 69 degrees F, and the switch is currently running at 130 F (which it is) and the fans are off, this is where I have a problem.

 

Would you please spend 1 hour, and make it where we can have fans running again as soon as possible?  We cannot keep upgrading/downgrading firmware.

 

 

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 19 of 24
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Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

I have one running at 

MAC 57

System 69

 

I don't feel comfortable with these temperatures. It's in an air con room.

 

I have a M4300-52G-PoE+ in there too, running at

 

MACA 21

MACB 29

System 30

 

Message 20 of 24
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Aspirant

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Hi Netgear Team,

do have a road-map for implementing a fan-switch in the GUI or CLI?

kind regards

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 21 of 24
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NETGEAR Expert

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

Thank you for your message. Yes, with latest software the M4300-8X8F has fans off until ambient temperature is above a threshold. This doesn't impact MTBF and many customer requested it. Now you are right, we are working on a new setting in the configuration for selecting quiet mode or fan mode on demand. The ETA isn't firm at this stage but I'll come back to the Community to pre-announce it with a schedule. I would say three months by now, if it can help.

Regards,
Laurent Masia
NETGEAR Senior Product Line Manager, Managed Switches
Message 22 of 24
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Aspirant

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working

M4300-8x8F. I upgraded to 12.0.9.3. Still have Amber Fans LED and Fans "Stopped" in Web Interface.

Has there been any progress on this issue? When will we have an option to leave the Fans "ON"?

 

 

Model: XSM4316S|M4300-8X8F - Stackable Managed Switch with 16x10G including 8x10GBASE-T and 8xSFP+ Layer 3
Message 23 of 24
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Guru

Re: After Upgrade of M4300-8x8f fans stop Working


@kgpns wrote:

Has there been any progress on this issue? When will we have an option to leave the Fans "ON"?


Posted end of December 2019, just before your question:


@LaurentMa wrote:

..., we are working on a new setting in the configuration for selecting quiet mode or fan mode on demand. The ETA isn't firm at this stage but I'll come back to the Community to pre-announce it with a schedule. I would say three months by now, if it can help.


So we can stay tuned.

Message 24 of 24