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Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

AllanA
Guide

Generic 10G Wiring question

I have CAT 7 cable runs and am looking to create a 10GB backbone between our servers and key area's of our network where end-users will have 1GB throughput (until costs come down). I'm at the juncture where I need to consider switches

1 or 2- 48 port managed

1 or 2- 24 port managed

and potentially 3 - 4 12 unmanaged switches.

 

I don't necessarily need all the port to be 10GB capable, only just enough (for now) to cover the backbone runs.

 

My question: I have CAT7 cables run (copper) and I have CAT7 modular plugs and Keystones. Do I need SFP+ to RJ45 Copper modeule 10GB Tranceivers in addition to the plus and keystones?

Additional Question: If so,  I assume one on either end of each backbone run (2 per line). Which tranceivers Netwear and Compatible brand are recommended?

Thanks in advance

Message 1 of 11
msi
Luminary
Luminary

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

> Do I need SFP+ to RJ45 Copper modeule 10GB Tranceivers in addition to the plus and keystones?

 

There are switches that have both SFP+ as well as 10GBASE-T Ports. In the later case there is usually no need for an extra module. Also keep in mind that these modules (due to power limits of the SFP+ slot) limit the cable length. 30m is a usual limit, this might depend on the module and your cables. If you have a 10GBASE-T RJ45 port on your switch that would usually be preferred in your case.

Message 2 of 11
AllanA
Guide

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

Thank you. While it's logical, It seems odd to me to think there are advantages to not using the SFP+ modules. I'm glad I asked.

 

With the non-SFP+ switches, is every port then a 10G port or is it isolated to those ports dedicated to the higher speed? To control costs I'm looking to slowly meter out deployment of the 10G backbone and then extending it outward. I would imagine 12, 24 or 52 ports of 10G capability would be much more expensive than 2,4, or 6 dedicated 10G ports with the rest being 1G.

Message 3 of 11
msi
Luminary
Luminary

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

In the case of the M4300 for all detail check the data sheets. There are switches in that product line that are majorly 10/100/1000 BASE-T (typically with the one model having PoE capability. These often have 2 SFP+ and 2 10GBASE-T ports. There are other models that are mostly 10G oriented where you have a selection of mixtures or only a certain type of ports being 10GBASE-T or SFP+.

 

There is a mixture of models available, if you want to control cost, consider the half-wide models with 8 or 16 10G ports, they are 10G only, but they are less expensive than the largest models such as a fully built-up M4300-96X (which even supports some QSFP+).

Message 4 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

There are switches with "just" a few 10G ports (typically for uplink/switch interconnect/storage...) and the others 1G ports (various GSxxxT for example). Of course, there are also pure 10G switches (XS724E, XSxxxT).

 

Many switch models have combined 10G copper/RJ45 and SFP+ port pairs - only one of these pairs can be used at a time.

 

Be aware that 10G copper ports don't sync to the legacy 10Mb/s and Fast Ethernet (100 Mb/s) devices.

 

Further on, earlier switches with 10G ports only sync to 1G and 10G, while some other have 10G-MultiGig ports which can sync to 1G/2.5G/5G/10G. For switch interconnection and most storage/NAS applications that's not a big implication.

Message 5 of 11
AllanA
Guide

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

To clarify, "Be aware that 10G copper ports don't sync to the legacy 10Mb/s and Fast Ethernet (100 Mb/s) devices."

 

Are you saying that only SFP+ ports/devices permit backward compatability to 10/100/1000 fast ethernet? If true, then SFP+ is the route I would prefer to take as I'm certain there are plenty of 100Mb/s and 1Gb/s lines running throughout the campuses.

 

My intention, at least initially, is to create the backbone between key departmental servers using 10G and leaving rest of the systems connected to the switch to run 1G or 100Mb (if necessary). But backward compatability is needed unless I want to begin rewiring everything (I don't, yet.).

Message 6 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

SFP+ can have other limitations:

 

  • Typically a SFP+-RJ45 can run 1Gb and 10 Gb, if the switch does support also MultiGig.
  • Things are different when using SFP+ fiber modules - here there is no speed negotiation.

10 GbE copper ports can be run either on 10 GbE or 1 GbE, but not on slower speeds. As long as you don't deploy only 10 GbE switches, this is not an issue. Classic 10 MbE, Fast Ethernet, and GbE can continue to run on GbE ports, e.g on switches with GbE or 10 GbE uplinks.

 

Not sure what your wiring concern is, as you state there is a CAT7 cabling anyway. Depending on the distances, I tend to prefer fiber: More reliable, much thinner, theoretical lower latency, but no DIY installations (except if you master fiber splicing).

 

The standard says that you can use CAT6 cable for run lengths up to 55 m or CAT6A or CAT7 cable for run lengths up to 100 m. We know that good CAT5A cabling has almost the same electrical behaviour like a cheap CAT6. 

Message 7 of 11
AllanA
Guide

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

"10 GbE copper ports can be run either on 10 GbE or 1 GbE, but not on slower speeds. As long as you don't deploy only 10 GbE switches, this is not an issue. Classic 10 MbE, Fast Ethernet, and GbE can continue to run on GbE ports, e.g on switches with GbE or 10 GbE uplinks.

 

Not sure what your wiring concern is, as you state there is a CAT7 cabling anyway."

I have several CAT7 new and unused lines running from my server room to critical areas for media/broadcast/streaming distribution. I'm fairly confident that most old cabling  is Cat6, or at least Cat5E and I know that our switches are entirely 1GB enabled. The idea is to continue forward with 1G to the workstations/departmental application servers through switches fed by 10G lines connected by servers with 10G adapters. In this way 1G is assured to the desktops/departmental application servers unless I find slower lines (which then need to be replaced).

 

I waiver when it comes to which switches to buy and whether SFP+ devices are necessary for the inter-switch connections. Backward compatability to 100mbps is less of a concern since these particular lines will be used to conenct switches. Still, I wouldn't think I need more than one 10G port in certain locations and four 10G ports in others, relay and endpoint areas.

 

 

Message 8 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

Thats unrelated to the cabling - much more it's a limitation on 10 GbE capable switches.

Message 9 of 11
AllanA
Guide

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

I'm not sure how anything I said was unrelated to cabling. Recapping the justification, the plan, for the new switches is pertinent I'd think when asking for assitance when choosing specific devices, no? There appears to be a lot of Netgear options, some with SFP+ and some for copper, some with a few SFP+ ports, some with all ports capable of 10G that are SFP+ and come copper. The decision to use SFP+ or copper ports, choosing tech with backward capability (10G>100mbps) or strictly forward looking (1G>10G) is the only non-cabling decision, but either choice doesn't remove the need for model recommendations from someone with hands-on experience or knowledge in the subject.

 

Message 10 of 11
schumaku
Guru

Re: Generic 10G Wiring question

Create a drawing of your intended network layout (backbone connections [e.g. with distances], distribution layer) and specify the kind of management level you think you need. The original post talks of some managed switches, and some unmanaged ones - what is more than strange combination.

 

Look into the management options and requirements - Netgear offers high-end managed switches including modular models with Web/shell/SNMP management, Insight managed switches (cloud based, App or cloud portal, SNMP monitoring), Smart Managed Pro (Web management by device, including top-of-the line SDVoE), Smart Managed Plus (very limited configuration options).

There is also the question on how future proof you want things. Personally I would try to keep the cabling flexible and easy to go beyond of 10GbE, so consider modular 10/40 GbE modular switches and single devices for the access layer from the M4300 (and M4500) Series Server area and/or backbone my preference would be using fiber.

Please be aware, you talk to community members here - we're happy to help, but can't (or won't) do network design consulting. To suggest exact switch models, SFP+ modules, ... we need much more insight.

Message 11 of 11
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