Re: New Firmware -- Overtemp warning

JSchnee21 · ‎2018-09-23

Saw a new message and icon on my mr1100 since updating to the most recent AT&T firmware a week or so ago.

While it's good that the mr1100 now tells you why it is not charging -- due to battery/device over temp. Both in words and with a spiffy new icon (see attached).

But, it doesn't change the fact that the unit is way too temperature sensitive. The otherday I went to charge my device after only an hour or so normal usage. The mr1100 was slighlty warm in my hand from usage on a mild summers day (in the shade). And it refused to charge.

I had to turn the unit off, remove the back cover, and let it sit open for 30min or so to get it to accept a charge. Of course then, when I plugged in the power to charge the unit annoyingly turns on. So then I had to wait for it to boot, then shut it down, all because the safety temp thresholds are way to low (or sensors are not properly calibrated).

Blanca_O · ‎2018-09-23

Hi JSchnee21,

Welcome to NETGEAR Community!

What is the current firmware version?

Do you have Ethernet standby enabled?

What is the temperature of the battery being reported on the device diagnostic page on the MR1100 UI?

Regards,
Blanca
Community Team

JSchnee21 · ‎2018-09-24

HI Blanca,

Thanks for following up. At the time, I believe Ethernet standby was "disabled." When Ethernet is on (aka not disabled) the idle train on the battery is definately increased which could elevate the unit and battery temperatures. But since then I've changed it to 2min as I am not using Ethernet right now (but I do from time to time)

Here are my unit's details:

MR1100-1A1NAS, H/W 1.0, SKU 6112B
Purchased March 2018

FW: NTG9X50C_12.05.05.00
FW Date: 2018/07/25, AT&T Wi-Fi
PRI: 03.12
Web: MR1100-1A1NAS_04.01.70.02

Current Temp: 26 degrees C (78.8F)*
Battery Temp: 26 degrees C (78.8F)*

*Unit was turned off overnight sitting inside my house whose
ambient temperature is 71F (21.67C)

Currently, at this temperature, the mr1100 will accept a charge. I didn't check the temp
when it was refusing a charge a couple days ago, but from fealing it in my hand it was definately warmer at that time -- perhaps approximately body temperature.

Compared to ambient, the temperature sensors definately have at least a 3 to 4 degrees C positive bias (aka calibration error).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

It's generally accepted that Lithium Ion batteries have a working and charging range of at least 5C to 45C.

Though some reputable sources claim that up to 60C is fine

https://ehs.mit.edu/site/sites/default/files/documents/Lithium%20Battery%20Safety%20Guidance.pdf

For example, my iPhone which sits in my pocket which is ~35C all day readilly accepts a charge under heavy use on at hot summers day when the device it at least 50C.

In order for the MR1100 to be practical, it must be able to accept a charge while simultaneously under normal to heavy data use (wifi, ethernet USB) under ambient conditions that are at least 75-85F.

Next time I get the message that the unit is unable to charge, I'll try to get the temperatures for you.

Thank you,

Jonathan

JSchnee21 · ‎2018-09-24

As another piece of data. I just ran a few speed tests on the unit -- maybe 5 -- from my phone which is tethered via Wifi (5.8Ghz). And the temperatures (as reported on the Web Admin page) have already climbed to:

Current Temperature 34C

Battery Temperature 30C

Now after sitting idle for a few minutes the current temperature has fallen back to 31C.

Once again, ambient temperature is only 21 to 22C.

-Jonathan

vanillaknot · ‎2018-09-26

I discovered this thread just this evening.

I first got an mr1100 last December. In short order, it was clear that the battery wouldn't charge very far, getting stuck <20% and never improving. I thought I had a bad battery. I didn't think much of it because the device has been always at home. But it needs to go genuinely mobile soon, so I finally (this past Monday) got a warranty replacement of the entire unit because AT&T aren't equipped to replace just the battery. New unit came to life without incident after interacting with AT&T on the phone for ICCID & IMEI. Settings were loaded from saved backup.

New unit fired up and immediately requested firmware update. Now I have new LAA and AP isolation capabilities, as well as this battery nonsense. My new unit is again not charging, stuck below 40%. See attached image for stats. Device screen says "Battery Heat Mode -- Battery charging stopped due to high device temperature." It's mildly idiotic for it to be panicking over heat yet also report "battery status - normal" and "battery charge status - yes".

I'm guessing my original unit was fine as well, but just didn't have the firmware smarts to say what it thought was wrong. Frankly, this is inane -- my unit sits on a table in my home office 95% of the time, always plugged in. How exactly is it getting so warm? Why are its tolerances so finnicky when this is as bland an environment as one could ask for?

Unit is Gen1, firmware 12.05.05.00, build date 2018/07/25. Ethernet standby is disabled (attached to house network on a Netgear switch, for wired printer & other devices) and unit is always on, acting as the external gateway for the household. Having ethernet on is no excuse for reacting badly to warmth.

JSchnee21 · ‎2018-09-27

Hi @vanillaknot,

I've actually never seen the behavior you describe where the unit starts charging but then gets to a certain percentage and stops. While I agree it could be a thermal issue, I would not expect charging to stop at the same battery percentage each time -- unless the battery (or charging circuit) were defective as you already surmised.

So you had your unit replaced under warranty and the replacement is still a Gen1? That's surprising to me, I didn't think AT&T was still stocking the Gen1. How did you go about getting it replaced? Corporate over the phone? Or a local store? Did they hassle you or was it a piece of cake?

Total agree that the thermal envelope parameters are crazy small and/or the placement of the sensors is too close to a heat source or miscalibrated. Or all of the above.

Here are two things I would try:

1) Put your mr1100 and battery in the refridgerator for a few hours and then try to charge it. If it is truly a thermal issue you should be able to charge further befor tripping the thermal overload. While charging, turn the unit upside down and remove the back cover. If you have a small fan or "Cool pack" / "Blue Ice" etc. you can cool it down as it charges -- but be careful you don't get condensation/liquid water in the unit.

2) I threw out the stock charger that came with it long ago. And am using an Anker QC3 charger. This charges the battery at a faster rate and higher voltage and may help it get past an internal inefficiences more easily. The mr1100 only supports QC2 I believe, but the Anker falls back. I'm using both the original USB to USC cord from Netgear and one I bought from Anker -- both seem to perform the same

3) I only usually charge my mr1100 when it is turned off. Aka my kids use it in the car to watch shows, when they get home I take the mr1100, put it on charge, verify the charging indicator comes on, then turn off the unit (so it doesn't interfere with the Wifi in my house). Generally, unless the unit is too warm it will start charging right away. But sometimes the USBC connection doesn't "sync" and nothing happens. At which point I unplug the USBC, wait and few seconds and plug it back in or switch to the other USBC wire I have. It seems there is some negotiation that takes place. Once I'm good I shutdown the unit.

Some have claimed that when the unit cools down, it will start charging automatically. Also that when left plugged in as the battery drains it will start charging automaticlly and then stop when full.

If none of these things work, I suggest creating a real support ticket with Netgear

Good luck,

Jonathan

vanillaknot · ‎2018-09-27

> replacement is still a Gen1?

Yes. Apparently it's a refurb unit, guaranteed as though new.

> Put your mr1100 and battery in the refridgerator

> I only usually charge my mr1100 when it is turned off.

These are good thoughts, but [a] limited in applicability, because at best they will show the extent of the problem without solving it because the device will grow warm again anyhow once it's back in normal office temps, and [b] the device is never off because normally it's the household gateway -- everything in the house depends on it for Internet access. I can try the fridge test briefly, but the device's usage needs don't provide for just turning it off every time I want it to charge. It should stay plugged in and charged at home all of the time, able to withstand the occasional power failure uneventfully.

--karl

PS/FYI- My reason for going this route at all was that I gave up on Comcast last November, when their latest 2-yr contract expired and they started wanting $180+/mo for TV+Internet. I tossed Comcast, got this AT&T hotspot as part of the genuine "unlimited" plan, plus DirecTV (also through AT&T) for a total that's barely 1/3 of Comcast's cost, for net savings $1k+/yr. Speed is not the greatest -- being in rural nowhere doesn't help -- but I'm still happy as long as I stay above, say, 10Mbps. My monthly data utilization is always above 200Gbytes: Yay unlimited plan. 🙂

JSchnee21 · ‎2018-09-27

Agreed. You could just pull the battery out entirely, and run the unit on a QC2 or QC3 charger plugged into a regular old UPS. Not ideal, but at least the mr1100 would run a lot cooler.

vanillaknot · ‎2018-10-06

FYI I finally got around to calling AT&T about this heat problem again. Explained first unit return, second unit setup gaining new firmware, now with battery complaint and charge stoppage.

This time, the rep found that they can replace just the battery. This was unexpected to him -- he said he'd had to replace mr1100s before and always had to do whole unit, not just battery, and was surprised when batteries were listed in stock today.

So I have a battery coming. Maybe something good has happened, maybe it's been redesigned not to be so sensitive to the charging process so as not to get so warm. We'll see.

vanillaknot · ‎2018-10-19

Belatedly, I realized I hadn't followed up.

Short version: No joy.

Long version: New battery arrived a week ago. Slipped it into the mr1100 immediately. It was 51% charged on arrival. Today it is ... 40% charged, and the unit is in essentially permanent "charging disabled due to device temperature" mode. Yes, it is LOSING charge as it sits there, plugged into the wall socket.

I can't win.

I like the device. I like the performance I get out of it when using the MIMO antenna I've discussed elsewhere -- on quiet evenings, I'm now hitting 60-70Mbps, and never below 25Mbps. I don't like that the thing is doomed to be plugged in all the time.

I suppose I will call AT&T one more time, but I'm holding out zero practical hope for an improvement to the situation.

JSchnee21 · ‎2018-10-19

Can you take it to an AT&T store (or Best Buy) and see if you can get them to replace the entire unit? Hotspot, charger and cable, battery, with a brand new one?

It seems like you have had two lemons.

vanillaknot · ‎2018-12-28

A week ago, I finally called AT&T yet again about this problem. They agreed that a device that's operating 10C or 15C above spec'd max operating temp is a problem, and they would send yet another unit.

I got it a few days ago. Pointlessly, it was another v1 unit even though I specifically asked for v2. I plugged it in, connected to it (without SIM), logged in, and watched the diagnostics page. Within 5 minutes, it went over-temp and I got the front screen warning about battery temp preventing charging. This was without connecting it to either the house's wired ethernet or the external MIMO antenna I mentioned elsewhere. Minimal operation, nothing but it and my laptop on wifi, no LTE operating (no SIM) and no wired ethernet. As close to idle state as it could be and still have my laptop connected.

What a disaster.

I sent the new unit back, keeping the previous one (my 2nd). This isn't a battle worth fighting any more. I may go back to the local store to talk about other options, but I'm seriously disappointed. It's a nice unit, and capable of such great speeds when enhanced with the antenna.

I called AT&T to explain the situation one more time, and especially to tell them that I'm keeping the previous unit. The lady with whom I spoke briefly tried to convince me to work with it but I wasn't having any of it. Not worth the hassle. She was understanding after a bit.

I enclosed a letter (attached here) to give a written record with adequate detail about the entire sorry episode, not colored by whatever notes were taken from my phone calls.

Don't know what else to do. As my letter says, it's now expected to be permanently a household unit, always plugged in, and therefore forever running hot.

jpainter01 · ‎2019-06-16

How can I tell if I have the old or new model of the Nighthawk?

vanillaknot · ‎2019-06-16

Two ways. Either open up the back, remove the battery, and there's a tag there.

Or, while the unit is running, login to the self-management web pages and go to WiFi Status -> Device.

jpainter01 · ‎2019-06-16

@vanillaknot wrote:
Two ways. Either open up the back, remove the battery, and there's a tag there.
Or, while the unit is running, login to the self-management web pages and go to WiFi Status -> Device.

Thank you kindly for the prompt reply. It is much apreciated.

I'm a newbie here, what am I looking for on the screenshot? (what tells if it's the old or new model?)

Garyst01 · ‎2019-08-14

I just purchased Nighthawk M1 from Amazon like others I think the unit is feature rich but battery heating issue probably not acceptable. I installed it yesterday and within an hour unit stopped charging due to heating issue room temp was 21.6’C. The unit was barely warm. One would think the design would not overheat when used as advertised and with the accessories supplied.
Not sure I’ve ever gotten a product that had a charger that did not provide adequate charging when used as advertised or worse yet over heat under normal use. Given the larger size of this unit I would expect more thermal tolerance.

If this is a FW issue is there a roll back to previous version that doesn’t exhibit this over heating issue.

I am probably returning - and leaving a less than positive review since it is unusable with this problem. From earlier posts it appears the issue is not defective unit or battery since replacing multiple times by others saw no change in heating issue.

I was really hoping this was the solution to my rural connectivity.

JSchnee21 · ‎2019-08-14

Hi @Garyst01 ,

I'm not here to appologize for Netgears design. But you can use the MR1100 without the battery. Just get a quality QC2 or QC3 capable charger (I like Anker).

If you really want battery backup, just get a small UPS and plug the wall wort into it.

Some folks have also modified their units to remove the cover and/or mount fans.

But, it is a known issue that the thermister in these units is not calibrated well, and Netgear is way too conservative when it comes to permissible battery temps for charging the Li-ion battery.

shastss · ‎2019-08-22

I also just purchase my Nighthawk MR1100 from Amazon and started using it on 8-10-2019. I also am getting the same results as others in this thread. Netgear we need your help. Please dont ignore this thread. This is a serious problem for people who require the use of the this device in our day to day jobs. You got my money because I needed the long battery life and the performance is nice.

JSchnee21 · ‎2019-08-22

Hi @shastss ,

How / where are you using the MR1100? While my unit displays a similar temperature "issue" in my day to day usage of the device, it's not normally a show stopper.

Generally I charge up overnight (sometimes it has to cool off first) in the house where it is ~72F. Then I use the device all day the next day in a variety of climates -- including hot cars (though not direct sun).

Rinse and repeat.

I do use a Anker QC2/QC3 charger and a high quality Anker USB-C cable. Sometimes my unit does display the temp warning when I first plug it into charge. But once it cools off on its own in 15-60min it starts charging automatically.

More often than the temp issue, I have problems with the softpower button turning on/off. Or the unit hangs when starting up or shutting down (once it's up an running it's usually okay). I also have issues sometimes during the USB-C charging "hand shake".

At which point I just pop the back cover off (which is now very loose) and take the battery out, wait ~10sec or so, pop it back in and restart. Problem solved.

At this point the MR1100 is probably a lame duck. Hopefully, Netgear/AT&T are fixing many of these issues for the MR2100 which should be released (fingers crossed) in Q4 or Q1.

-Jonathan

BigBroIsWatchin · ‎2019-08-22

my battery has always gotten hot (or so it thinks at 41*) and shuts itself down. has done that since day one and can not even feel the difference in the battery or the device and mine only goes in if i need to move it for something as i keep mine hardwired. it takes about 2 minutes until it will shut itself off from charging. they do not care they already have your money. i am afraid you will not find NETGEAR any help at all friends. you would have better luck catching a little leprchaun and taking his gold than you ever will of a NETGEAR employee helping anyone out. what else would you expect from a company that sells a product where the functions do not intentionally work as YOU would like and expect them too but rather the way their partner that pays them wants instead? itI'm guessing they think it generates more money and return customers for them when they don't fix it. look for them to go into the internet business soon. on a side note i did manage to enable a port forwarding rule ...lol

jpainter01 · ‎2019-08-23

Does the MR1100 Nighthawk log errors that record that it has overheated at some time?

@JSchnee21 wrote:
Saw a new message and icon on my mr1100 since updating to the most recent AT&T firmware a week or so ago.
While it's good that the mr1100 now tells you why it is not charging -- due to battery/device over temp. Both in words and with a spiffy new icon (see attached).

But, it doesn't change the fact that the unit is way too temperature sensitive. The otherday I went to charge my device after only an hour or so normal usage. The mr1100 was slighlty warm in my hand from usage on a mild summers day (in the shade). And it refused to charge.

I had to turn the unit off, remove the back cover, and let it sit open for 30min or so to get it to accept a charge. Of course then, when I plugged in the power to charge the unit annoyingly turns on. So then I had to wait for it to boot, then shut it down, all because the safety temp thresholds are way to low (or sensors are not properly calibrated).

vanillaknot · ‎2019-08-23

One of the failings of the MR1100 is that it provides no user-accessible logging at all.

shastss · ‎2019-08-23

Jonathan,

I have a tethered Aruba RAP-109 device to the eth port for work when possible.

When not possible, I use Global Protect (vpn) through the Nighthawk, hence the need for solid battery operation.

So I used this highly technical solution to get a full charge. I put the battery in the fridge for a few minutes, then plugged it in and watched the mobile app temps in advanced info. As the temp climbed from 30C to 40C, I took a bag of frozen veggies out of the freezer, put the unit on a paper towel on the bag of frozen veggies. Watch the temp drop back down to 33C and it seemed to break past the point where it gave the Battery Mode Error, and charged fully. Once charged fully I put the veggies back in the freezer for next time. So far it has not dropped below 96% charge and is hovering at 39C.

JSchnee21 · ‎2019-08-23

Nice! Yes, there are others that use the freezer/ice bag approach as well.

You can also run the MR1100 without the battery in a variety of ways:

1) QC2/3 car charger

https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Charge-PowerDrive-PowerIQ/dp/B01K9MQ8WW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2R4W2F5...

2) QC2/3 portable battery

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3TVRP2/ref=sr_1_10?camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B01N3TVRP2...

-Jonathan

Cjones1290 · ‎2019-08-26

I have two Nighthawks units that are both plugged in all the time. I use them for home interent due to living in a rural area. One of them is still working like a champ. The other is now displaying the battery heat mode and "turns off" the LAN port. I did a factory reset and it fixed it for about two hours and then I lost internet connection again. Check on the unit and it says battery heat mode and no internet but the unit is still working on WiFi. Anyone else have this problem? And is this strickly a firmware problem? Thanks!