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Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Speegs
Star

Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hello,

 

I have a Telstra Nighthawk M1, works pretty well.  Happy with the speeds, the form factor, real ethernet port and on the very infrequent times I use it without power the battery life.

 

I have a problem with it, I have it charging and plugged in.  It then seems to somehow turn off the usb port overnight.  Run the battery down to zero.  Which is VERY annoying as I need to pull the usb cable, plug it back in.  Wait 15 mins until it has the minimum charge to connect back to Telstra.

 

Then it does it again overnight.  The unit is getting power the whole time.  Is this unit faulty or is there something I can reconfigure to stop this?

 

Appreciate any advice, it's on the latest firmware.  In fact I'd like to run it without the battery, is that possible?  I did that on prior netgear units Advanced III and in the netgear cradle and found it worked more reliably.

 

I'm using the supplied USB C cable to power the device.  The USB wall plug isn't faulty I tested it by charging my iPad with a different cable of course, must be operating well as iPads require plenty of power to charge.

 

Regards,

 

Leigh

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 1 of 54
ArodiD
NETGEAR Expert

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hi Speegs,

 

Glad to hear your positive feedback on the M1.  I would like to find out more about your charging issue.  

 

1. How many WiFi devices are connected overnight?

2. Is there any device also connected over Ethernet overnight?

3. Do you have a MicroSD or USB thumb drive plugged into the M1 constantly?

4. Are you plugged directly into the wall socket or using a power board with the supplied wall plug?

5. How much data is being used over night?

 

The M1 can be powered up without a battery but we do not recommend doing this.  You can always give it a try and see if you get better results without the battery.  We do have some charging algorithm in the firmware to prolong the use of the lithium ion battery and charging can stop if the device gets too hot but should start charging again once the temprature drops below the threshold.  If there is constant heavy download occuring then it could cause the battery to drain as the device is most probably getting quite hot overnight and having either a USB thumb drive, MicroSD, Ethernet or all 3 connected would also add to heating up the device.  Keep in mind that this is a mobile router and is not a replacement for a fixed line connection.  If you require constant heavy downloads then try without the battery and see if it makes a difference.

 

Regards,

 

ArodiD

Message 2 of 54
kirayamto
Apprentice

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hello now I use m1 24 hours everyday I know this device charging in 43 temperature they will open protect function so when useing charging I suggest not connect lte service and doing download and upload process
Message 3 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

1. How many WiFi devices are connected overnight?

 

Zero

 

2. Is there any device also connected over Ethernet overnight?

 

Yes about 8, doing Windows Updates on hired computers machines and pretty much constantly syncing about 1mbit/s of data back to a central server.

 

3. Do you have a MicroSD or USB thumb drive plugged into the M1 constantly?

 

No.

 

4. Are you plugged directly into the wall socket or using a power board with the supplied wall plug?

 

Using the supplied 1amp Netgear wall plug.

 

5. How much data is being used over night?

 

About 100GB per night.  I bought it to use it, not to look at the pretty lights.

 

So far I've discovered ditching the standard wall plug and plugging into a USB port with 2.4amp capacity made a big improvement.  I'm yet to run it to the point where the battery + power = flat.

 

I can't with certainty say the 2.4amp USB supply is the solution, I'll need more time before I can prove that scientificly.  However my gut is telling me the supplied wall plug is NOT powerful enough for regular use.

 

I don't get it, why is it only designed to be for intermittent use, I know many customers will use it that way.  However there are also many who can't get good Internet via land facilities and those who need a portable device for event work (all day conferences etc where Internet at from the conference location is EXTREMELY expensive and hard to organise, ie no cables to your assigned area etc).

 

Hopefully they consider those who use it as a better ADSL connection or a workhorse for an event when they make the next one and/or future firmware updates.

 

For me the unit is an NBN speed portable solution.  I often see speeds of 40mbit - 200mbit down and 20-60mbit up.  I can't get a fibre connection where I need the Internet and I'm not at the location for more than a week.  So it's perfect that way.  Data costs a fair amount, but setup fees for a connection this fast are often several thousand dollars.  So the high price of data is not really an issue it's cheaper than the setup fees for the temporary connections in the long run.  I also take advantage of Telstra ability to "share" data on a business plans.  That softens the blow on a large account with 30+ other mobile devices you can borrow from other people's data for this large events.

 

20GB x 30 plans = much data, avoiding excess charges.

 

I guess if you call doing 200GB+ in 2 days a heavy user that's how I use this thing.  It's not much data nowdays people get 1TB+ per month on a home plan pretty easily.  Sure it's possibly quite a lot of mobile data, but there will be more of this in the future as prices for mobile data drop so design products around doing 3TB of mobile data a month, that might be the norm by the time the next generation is released.

Message 4 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hello,

 

Just did a test without a battery.

 

The unit reboots when I start transferring some data.  A basic speedtest.net (from 1 wifi computer) is enough to make it reboot.  (That was with a 2.4amp usb wall plug).

 

So no battery is not a good solution for those who are trying.  Unless of course my unit is faulty.  It works fine otherwise, just seems to draw more power than it gets.

 

Let me know if my unit is faulty I will return it for a new one from Telstra.  I don't want to waste my time if the next one does the same.

 

Thanks.

Message 5 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

I have done once, but will do that again (not that I expect a different result).  I've also upgraded the firmware when the new one came out.

 

It charges perfectly when powered off, battery usually full overnight.  It just doesn't charge well when you are using it at the same time.

 

My point it I don't want to turn it off, nor did I buy it to have it turned off.  It's a router I want to use it like a router.  They generally run 24/7.

 

I upgraded from the Telstra Advanced III Hotspot and the ugliest cradle setup around (but it does work, not as quick as the Nighthawk M1).  

 

The M1 boasts it's faster and better, also costs more so should be better.  Franky it is for the most part better.

 

If it doesn't work for a 24 hour straight period when plugged into power why don't they put that on the netgear website?  Why doesn't Telstra tell you this when I asked them before ordering?  If it does, work then I have a bad one and that's what I'm trying establish is mine bad or are they all like this?

Message 6 of 54
ArodiD
NETGEAR Expert

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hi Speegs,

 

Thanks for the additional information.  200GB+ over 2 days with a mobile router would be classed as heavy usage.  Yes, I understand that some users can use up to 1TB per month on a fixed router/gateway which is powered 24/7.  We have to keep in mind that this is a mobile router which has a portable battery.  If you had your smartphone or tablet on charge 24/7 you would expect degradation in battery life as well as some other issues which has been reported in the news.  If you want to operate the M1 24/7 then I suggest removing the battery and using a quick charge power adapter to stop the device from rebooting.  Also, could you please PM me with your email address as we would like to invite you to join our BETA testing team.   Hope this interests you and we hear from you soon.

 

Kind Regards,

 

ArodiD

Message 7 of 54
stevemcgahey
Tutor

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

What would NETGEAR/Telstra recommend we use instead of the Netgear M1 if we want a 4G fixed point router with wired connectivity, and want to avoid these battery run-down problems, perhaps by getting a device that runs off 240V AC with no battery.

Message 8 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hello,

 

I did have more luck with no battery installed and using a 2.4amp usb adapter rather than the 1amp included adapter.

 

If you leave the battery installed it will eventually switch off the usb power.  Then drain the battery to zero.  I wish you could turn that "feature" off.  Seems more like a bug to me.

 

Another option is the use the Telstra Advanced III hotspot with the Netgear Cradle and experience slower speeds as it doesn't do the speed of the Nighthawk M1.  I found in that configuration best to also remove the battery from the hotspot unit.  Otherwise it remains off when the mains power fails.  If you have them in remote sites that require a plane trip you are kind of stuffed.

 

Why use this gear in remote sites?  Well NBN isn't available, fibre is too expensive as you have to pay tens of thousands in setup fees and ADSL is getting really bad in Australia and no one seems to be putting ANY substantial effort into ADSL as everyone is counting on NBN.  (Which isn't all that great according to some who have it anyway).

 

So there is a market right now for a better grade router Netgear.  You make them, but I guess the mobile carriers don't want people actually using the full potential of their mobile network on a long term basis.  Even those who are willing to pay a nice premium for the data prices.

 

Sad is the state of the Internet in Australia full of half way solutions all round.  It's two steps forward (Telstra mobile network is impressive) and one and a half steps backward.

 

Thanks for the Nighthawk M1 however, it is fast, not quite a proper router, not quite a crippled hotspot and somewhere inbetween.  Yet the best thing I can find and I keep my ear to the ground.  Open to suggestions as always.

 

 

Message 9 of 54
PepitoBird
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

I'm a new Nighthawk M1 user and am experiencing pretty much the same power issues as Speegs.

 

Unit will eventually stop accepting charge from the AC adapter and run flat by the end of the day. Have tried different cables and AC adapters, no difference.

 

So far we only have one computer connected to it at a time and there are no big downloads going on, just light browsing and email.

 

This unit was sold to our business by a Telstra dealer who knew we'd be running it 24/7 because ADSL is not an option at our location.

 

Is Netgear working on this issue  ?

Message 10 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Not a proper solution, but try removing the battery.

 

Using a more powerful usb wall adapter.  Eg: 2.4 amp one typically one capable of fast charging an ipad.

 

I've heard nothing from Netgear about working to fix it.  It's a pitty I'd buy a bunch more if they fixed it.  So for now I'm using the older Netgear Cradle and Advance III hotspot in long run applications.  (Also found that works best when removing the battery from the hotspot, otherwise it will not reconnect when the power returns).  That cradle is huge, ugly takes best modem prior to the M1.  So you won't get the full potential of the mobile network, but it still goes quite well > 100mbit in most areas.

Message 11 of 54
PepitoBird
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Yep.

 

Looking to me like the included 1A adapter is the issue, not able to supply enough juice to charge the battery unless the unit is powered down.

 

I'm currently trying no battery installed but powered by a 3.1A Arlec ipad charger and after 12 hours of use it hasn't rebooted.

Message 12 of 54
smudge01
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

I have the same issue - looks like a firmware fault to me. I use mine plugged in as it's an ADSL replacement (no NBN or ADSL out where I am). So it stays plugged in all the time. But sure enough.... over night something happens and it's dead in the mornings....

 

 

Message 13 of 54
phennessy
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hi,

 

I'm having the exact same problem! This is so frustrating, has anyone from Netgear come up with a fix?

 

I'm using a relitively small amount of data (approximately 1GB over a whole week) through an ethernet port only. There are no devices connected via wifi and no SD cards or USB drives attached. I am using the supplied wall plug and cable, but have also tried other 1A 5W wall plugs and generic USB 3.0 cables.

 

If I charge my phone or laptop overnight (or for a week/month for that matter) I would expect it to be fully charged and running at the end of that time period. How come the Nighthawk M1 had been set to discharge once it is fully charged?

 

Has anyone come up with a solution for this? I need to be able to run the unit for an entire week straight, without power failure. I use the Nighthawk routers to provide internet for remote access software, so I have no way of charging the device once it discharges. 

 

If anyone has any insight, please help!

 

 

Regards,

Pat

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 14 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hello,

 

The only "workaround" I know of is.

 

Remove the Battery.

 

Get a powerful usb wall adapter such as the ones designed to properly charge an iPad.  Otherwise you will find the unit will reboot when it draws more power than the supplied usb adapter can produce.

 

Only insert the battery if/when you are going portable with the device.

 

Hope it helps, report back your sucess/failure I've only bought one Nighthawk M1 and stayed on the older Cradle and Advanced III hotspot units where possible due to this problem.  According to Netgear they didn't design it with permanent use in mind, but thought everyone would use it "on the go".

 

Telstra and the packaging unfortunately doesn't tell you it's not designed for use beyond 8 hours.  The people selling it as usual have virtually no product knowledge or experience.

 

I hope the next edition solves this problem or a firmware update down the track solves it.  I do think you will need a larger power supply even if the firmware is adjusted to remedy long term use.  Luckily they are easily available since iPads have been on the market.

 

Regards,

 

Leigh

 

 

 

Message 15 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

My first attempt with a 2.4amp power adapter failed, so be sure to try a very powerful usb wall adapter.  I found the real Apple iPad 12Watt one worked, some others made for charging iPads did not seem to supply enough power to prevent rebooting.

Message 16 of 54
smudge01
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

I've been using the adapter from my pixel xl. It's been largely more stable only had 1 shutdown in the last 3 weeks. Taking the battery out didn't work for me the unit kept shutting down. 

I think the power management doesn't shut off to allow the battery to cycle and recharge correctly. It's probably a firmware fix, not holding my breath on that though. 

 

Out of the box though this is faulty, you need to swap the power adapter to override the power management to make it stable. Very disappointing.

Message 17 of 54
phennessy
Aspirant

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Hi Leigh,

 

Thanks for your advice about removing the battery. In your experience, does the Nighthawk power up whenever it is plugged in to a power source (without the battery inserted)? It has performed this way during my initial tests, but I haven't had a chance to leave it for an extended period before plugging it in, so thought you might have some insight on this.

 

We're a medical startup and send the Nighthawk as part of a kit to a patient's house. Since the kit will be unplugged the enture trip, we would need it to power up when the patient plugs the device into the wall (without pressing any buttons on the Nighthawk, which will not be accessible).

 

Out of interest, how powerful is the wall charger that you're successfully using? The supplied 5W chargers don't cut it, but I have a 12W charger handy (5.2V, 2.4A; I think it was supplied with an iPad). I've tried this briefly and the device rebooted within 20 seconds as you and others have described. I have now been running it for around 10 minutes without a reeboot.

 

Also, do you have any advice on a different hopspot to use in order to avoid this problem? You mentioned the Cradle and Advanced III hotspots, but do you also use these without the battery? Ideally I can find a hotspot that I can use with the battery in it, without powering down at all.

 

Thanks a lot for your help! 

 

Regards,

Pat

Message 18 of 54
Speegs
Star

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

The Telstra Advanced III hotspot and cradle do work well.

 

I remove the battery on the hotspot so that the person onsite can just power off the cradle and hotspot at the same time.  Otherwise I have found the cradle switches off due to a power failure or reboot/any reason.   It then requires user intervention to boot back up and connect with the battery in place.

 

I'm currently using the Nighthawk M1 in "attended" situations, because I don't trust the device in long term usage cases.  I love the M1 otherwise.  Someone posted about using the USB 3 power supply from a Pixel Laptop.  That seems like a good idea.  I'm still working OK with my iPad power supply (that is a real one, not after market).  I did try a Kogan 2.4 amp supply and experienced rebooting.

 

So in summary the laptop power supply mentioned by another user above and an original iPad 12W power supply have been the only sucess stories removing the battery.  (If it's not getting enough power it reboots).

 

Without the battery the Nighthawk M1 does restore itself to powered on mode and connect after a power loss.  With the battery it's just trouble in my experience.

 

Netgear should sell a power adapter to run it permanently and add a firmware setting for "Always ON".  That's essentially the "proper" solution to this problem.  Netgear don't exactly admit there is a problem, it's a bit of a cop out saying it was designed for intermittent use only.

 

If I've missed some update that Netgear has done, let me know.  My Nighthawk M1 is packed away right now and I'll be using it much more in about a month or two.

Message 19 of 54
Cage1010
Guide

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

It looks like many people have the same problem about charging. I suffer the same issue.

But today, I found another way. I use SONY Xperia Performance charger adapter which support QC2.0 to connect with Nighthawk M1 with battery inside, and the battery can keep 100% almost for whole day usage. Share this with you, and I will keep watching it and updating.

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 20 of 54
Cage1010
Guide

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

After about 1 and half day testing, I noticed that with a good adapter(I use SONY Xperia Performance adapter charger), M1 can stay in a good condition. And temp does affect the charging. If the temp runs high over 43~44 degree C, the charge current will become very small, like under 100mA, and after the temp decrease below 40 degree C, the charg current will be about 1.5A ~ 2A. So if you want to use M1, you better to have a good adapter.

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 21 of 54
Cage1010
Guide

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Good news, new firmware has released. Go to try it~^ ^

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 22 of 54
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Yes, please try the latest firmware (currently NTG9X50C_10.16.04.04) and let us know if this resolves this issue for you.

Message 23 of 54
Cage1010
Guide

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Unfortunately, this is still happening even if I have upgraded to the latest firmware. I noticed that my room temp was about 33C, and the temps of battery and system were 41~42 degree C. In this condition, even if I used a USB adapter to connect with M1, the charge current will be very small, or even M1 will stop charging. I am curious that if M1 is defined as a protable device, how I can charge it when it runs out of battery. And it seems that the thermal of system is too high, I think the power consumption is too big caused by the Qualcomm. Is there any method to optimize the system to reduce the temp or power consumption?

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 24 of 54
Cage1010
Guide

Re: Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

Not sure what is the design of charging method of M1. I mean in general, when the battery is fully charged, and at the same time, type-C is still connected. I think the type-C would be the main provider for the system power to reduce the temp of the battery. Once user disconnets type-C, the battery can be switched to provide system power. When temp of system and battery are high, stopping charging is right to protect battery. But not let battery to keep providing system power while type-C is connected.

Model: MR1100| Nighthawk M1
Message 25 of 54
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