Nighthawk M1 battery flat and offline in morning

[iKaruS_Bungle]

Adding my voice to the chorus.

I have two M1 units. 

One runs fine, the other goes through an occasional (once a week) reboot cycle that doesn’t stop until the unit battery and SIM card have been removed for about 10 minutes.  After performing this, the unit may run without issue for several days before requiring the same sequence.

I have noticed that the unit that reboots is it more stable if the battery is removed and the bottom cover left off (letting the unit run off mains power). I have powered the unit using the provided power supply, and a MacBook USB-C Power supply (loads of power available).   This does not seem to impact on system stability. Because of this, I suspect heat is more of an issue than power supply.

Your mileage may vary…..

Both of the units were purchased at the same time.   Firmware has been updated on both units.

[AllianceIT]

We have a few of these devices, one that we know about will switch off once a week with the battery completely drained. Have to unplug the power from the device and plug it back in to get it to turn on.

Just purchased a couple of QuickChage 3.0 30W chargers http://www.comsol.com.au/Products-by-Category/USB-Wall-Chargers/COWCSQ3WH_2 and have removed the battery to see if that improves the situation.

I wish Telstra had a few more options for 4G gateways.

[AlbertMartin]

Hi Netgear Support,

I think I have found the problem with basic steps (not resolved, just found it) but is up to you (Netgear Team) to address the issue on an update.

It seems that when the hotspot reach a certain temperature it stop charging, but the sutuation is that the temperature "threshold" is very low, maybe 80 F... my face is warmer than that!

Everyone having this hotspot can do the following to confirm this "theory"of mine. Unplug the battery an put it on the freezer for 2 minutes or when it reach 70 F (it is still a confortable temperature), then put it back into the hotspot and you will see it will start charging, but when it reach a relative warm temperature (80 to 85 deegres, an extremely safe temperature) you will see how the charging bar and indicator on the app stop and the battery begins to drain.

I thinks theres is a problem on the temperature sensor itself or a the temp threshold programed in the coding that is extremely low causing this problem to all of us from this amazing device.

Netgear Team, please address this issue soon, don't let this great device dig a hole for his own tomb.

A fanboy of Netgear Products.

Thanks.

[AlbertMartin]

**Update to my previews post (See above this one)

Instead of taking the battery off the unit, just remove the battery cap (not the battery) and leave it connected to the charger. Then go to the Hot Spot Web Page administration (not the mobile app) and select Settings >> "Carrier" Wi-Fi Status >> Diagnostics and you will see the system and battery temperature. As soon as the Battery reach 40 C (104 F) it automatically stop charging. Now put the hot spot near a fan or AC unit (without disconnecting it from the charger) and as soons as it reach about 37 C (98.6 F) it will automatically start charging again. Keep in mind that 37 C (98.6 F) is the same temperature as the human body... sooooo I don't understand why Netgear team decided to select this temperature (40 C) as a threshold and label it as "danger" when is really a safe temperature and make the unit stop charging... At least I know that the unit is working fine and the problem is in the software.

Netgear Team, is really easy to fix this problem, please do so soon! This is really anoying!

Netgear Fan Boy!

[Gbear1984]

Hi ArodiD

Is it possible for me to join the Beta team too?

[Deb-M]

Totally agree the thermister is way off.  It is showing my ambient temperature at 32c (89.6f).

Room is at 23.88c (75f).   Same for the batter temperature.  Showing about the same.  Battery is cool to touch.  

[AlbertMartin]

Hi, maybe the thermister is ok. It measure the device temp and not the ambient temp. Another temrmister is used to meassure the battery temp. But the promblem seems to be more of the program set point temperature. It seems that at near 37 C the charging is disable by the device program. Netgear has to increase the set point more.

[ronaldnaka]

Removing the batter and putting it back fixed the problem...

Thanks

[AlbertMartin]

Hi,

As soon as the battery gets hot again, it will stop charging.

[JasonN]

Hi AlbertMartin,

Can you please explain how you use your device? Do you normally leave the battery in while using the AC power adapter even though it is at a full charge?

Please let me know. :]

- Jason N

[AlbertMartin]

Hi,

Always leave the battery on the device. I can't used it pluged in without the battery. When I do that, the device restart every few second and keeps doing it on an endless loop no matter if using the original USB C cable and adapter or using higher quality ones with more watts than the original, it just begins to reboot endlessly. Also happened with my first device, I returned for a new one and also happen the same thing, so my conclusion is that is a problem with the "temperature limit" programmed on the firmware of the device. If I put the unit directly on the supply AC duct it charge flawlessly, but keep in mind that the temperature when the device stop charging under normal conditions is about 37F (similar as a human body temp, relative warm and by far not dangerous).

[KarmusDK]

I fixed the reboot-loop by acquiring a 3.0 Amp USB-C charger (Deltaco brand). But I also noticed than when in my back pocket, the unit gets very hot from just one-two single devices connect and not really downloading anything. The battery drains quickly and is usually flat within 5-8 hours, so I need to travel with a fast charger in order to have a change to have it survive a whole day out of home. (I have the EUS version.)

[n3t]

Yesterday I bought a Nighthawk M1 MR1100-100EUS from Amazon Germany, i.e. the unbranded retail version sold in Europe, a brand new unit.

Still now in May 2018 the stupid problem is present that the battery cannot be charged while the device is in use as the battery temperature threshold is still as low as 40°C. Hello Netgear! This sucks big time!

At least I found a workaround: I can charge it by getting a cool pack out of the freezer and placing the M1 on top of it. This brings the temperature down and within a few minutes it draws about 10 Watts of power (1.8A @ 5V or 1A @ 9V with a QC charger) again. This is as good as it gets.

I wrote more here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Mobile-Routers-Hotspots-Modems/netgeart-m1-battery-problem/m-p/1572...

[JSchnee21]

Agreed.  Most resources I've found on the web suggest that 45C is considered very safe with little or no impact on longevity.  Charge at higher temps is possible by battery life may be reduced.

Maybe Netgear will come out a with Gen4 device with a fan (-:

[Speegs]

I also can't believe they have not solved this.  I have 4 Nighthawk M1 units.  I did find buying a bigger usb wall plug as recommended by another user really helped.  Maybe it charges so fast the temp cut off doesn't engage as quick.

The one I'm using is this one, recommended on this thread: http://www.comsol.com.au/Products-by-Category/USB-Wall-Chargers/COWCSQ3WH_2

It also has enough power to run the unit without battery.  Therefore enables the "remove battery" option which I usually will do if I know I'm going to be using the device heavily in an 3-4 day event.  I never had a temp gun on me and never had time to figure out if tempreture is the cause of my problems.  Removing the battery however with a sufficient power source seems the best workaround for me.  Remove the battery without enough power the device will reboot when tries to get more power and it isn't available.  Such as when you get plenty of poeple in the area and it needs more power to reach a mobile tower.

Come on Netgear, get it sorted out.  At least in the new ones you are selling if it can't be sorted out with firmware alone.

[Speegs]

I reported the problem to Netgear ‎March 2017.

It's now May 2018.

Best official response I recieved was they didn't expect people to use it for more than a few hours at a time.  Expecting people to only use the router as a pocket hotspot with occassional use.

That's stupid, it's a "Router" with a Gigabit Ethernet.  A rather well performing router with GE and the best specifications for the Telstra mobile network (maybe other networks too).  The bright spark that thought nobody would actually unleash it's capabilities should re-think how people use a performance portable router connected to a network with 200+mbit/s speeds.

[n3t]

Quite a few people here recommend the purchase of a QuickCharge capable USB charger. Initially I wondered why, because when initially charging my new M1 I measured 1.8A @ 5V = 9W with the supplied charger and 1A @ 9V = 9W with a QuickCharge compatible one, i.e. it would draw the same amount of power either way.

But the situation is different when the device gets hot while running on battery power and I hook it up to a charger then. As already said in this thread the M1 will not really charge due to the temperature exceeding 40°C, but in this situation it does draw a bit more power with QuickCharge than without. The difference is not really big but (depending on how much power the M1 currently needs for itself which varies) might help to prevent further battery depletion. With a normal USB charger connected the battery will definitely drain.

So yes, a QuickCharge capable charger is superior for long term operation.

[winger13]

My apologies in advance if this were already brought up but I was only able to read 1/2 of the posts on this thread.

The following thread helps explain charging requirements for the M1 device - basically, the included 1A charger is garbage, and I already sent Netgear Tech Support Level 2 this info (thus, no word from them).  And a simple high amperage (e.g. 2.4A) will not work stabily, it has to be a QC3.0 or QC2.0 to work, I have verified this with my US-based (AT&T) version.   Hope this helps in the discussion.

---

@n3t wrote:

@Quite a few people here recommend the purchase of a QuickCharge capable USB charger. Initially I wondered why, because when initially charging my new M1 I measured 1.8A @ 5V = 9W with the supplied charger and 1A @ 9V = 9W with a QuickCharge compatible one, i.e. it would draw the same amount of power either way.

But the situation is different when the device gets hot while running on battery power and I hook it up to a charger then. As already said in this thread the M1 will not really charge due to the temperature exceeding 40°C, but in this situation it does draw a bit more power with QuickCharge than without. The difference is not really big but (depending on how much power the M1 currently needs for itself which varies) might help to prevent further battery depletion. With a normal USB charger connected the battery will definitely drain.

So yes, a QuickCharge capable charger is superior for long term operation.

---

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Mobile-Routers-Hotspots-Modems/Netgear-M1-reboot-issue-Resolved/td-...

[n3t]

---

@winger13 wrote:

The following thread helps explain charging requirements for the M1 device - basically, the included 1A charger is garbage, and I already sent Netgear Tech Support Level 2 this info (thus, no word from them). 

---

Actually my MR1100-100EUS (the European version, bought May 2018 from Amazon Germany) did come with a 5V 2A charger. It's still not a QuickCharge enabled one, but if you only got an underpowered 1A one back then, Netgear has already improved on it.

[winger13]

Sorry, typo, mine came with the 5v 2A under powered charging block.

[chosos]

Is there any update on this issue? I have unfortunately had this issue since I bought my MR1100 new in Feb. 

[Azmann]

I'm a new Nighthawk M1 user and I am experiencing pretty much the same power issues. I cannot charge my unit if i turn on the unit. I live in country where ambient temeprature around 36C. If i turn on the unit and start using, the batery temperature will raise around 38C. And if i charge the unit at same time using qc 3.0 charger, the battery temperature will raise up to 42C.. and the unit will stop charge and the battery will drain. I have to take out the battery in freezer for 5 minutes to cool down the battery, then charge again. After charge around 30%, the battery fet hot again.

The threshold for start charging around 37C is impossible to achieve unless the device need to be turn off. Hope netgear team will revise charging threshold for us who live in hot country. The current threshold is very low for us and annoying. I would suggest 45C is better and more practical than 37C.

[Ayed]

If you believe the power adapter is not capable of charging the device, then try switching off one of the two WIFI modes on the router. This way the power consumption will drop and the power adapter will be enough.

I hope this helps.

[JSchnee21]

Hi Ayed,

The issue is that the battery thermal management in the MR1100 is too conservative.  It stops charging due to "overheating" because the "hot" temp threshold is set too low.  This is a known issue with this product.  This product unfortunately was not designed for hot climates (I wonder if the AUS or EUS versions are any better)

This is a simple software change in firmware that Netgear seams unwilling to change.  General consensus is that Lithium ion batteries are safe to charge up to at least 45C, some would even say 60C.  But the MR1100 stops charging due to thermal sensitivity at like 35-37C.

Charging slower should help some.  Leaving the case open and/or setting up a small fan also helps.  

Occassionally there are also bad batteries that heat too much while charging.

[AllianceIT]

AUS version isn't any better. We had a few Nighthawk batterys bulge as well leading to the batteries being removed.

We have started to replace all our always on Nighthawk devices with mains power devices now that additional devices are available from our carrier.