Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
Reply

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Christian_R
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: NETGEAR Armor Experience

Hi Mike,

 

Please check out the article below on how to disable Armor.

 

https://kb.netgear.com/000060900/How-do-I-turn-NETGEAR-Armor-on-or-off-using-the-Nighthawk-or-Orbi-a...

 

Christian 

Message 26 of 76
BonedomeTX
Initiate

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

BTW, the model is Orbi RBK852, but apparently your site isn't updated with your current products, because it didn't allow me to select that.

 

Like others, I was mysteriously signed up for the trial version of Armor without realizing it. Not only is that lack of transparency disappointing, but it feels like the very kind of malware implementation one expects hardware/software combinations like this to squash. It seriously damages the trust I have.

 

Further, the point of the whole Armor exercise could easily be mistaken as a ploy to steer all your customers towards playing for a subscription service for a product/service without clearly articulated benefits. Even those benefits that are claimed are damaged in credibility by the previously mentioned lack of transparency. You're asking users to send links and install software on local/client devices without really demonstrating how their information will be protected--I don't know how it will be protected from unknown/untrusted actors, and I don't know how it will be protected from Netgear and/or Bitdefender.

 

And like others, I believe basic/core security features should be built-in to the product, not paid add-on features or services. It's sort of like car companies making you pay extra for safety features that keep you from dying in crashes--the safety/security of your customers should be basic considerations, not profit centers. Also, it smells a little bit like a protection racket.

 

I'm sure that some of the things that seem like anti-transparency measures are meant to be sophisticated features that promote ease-of-use, and that your marketing and/or engineering people decided not to trouble customers by taking them into the technical weeds, and I appreciate that. There are some companies that do that very well. Your implementation is clumsy at best and doesn't inspire confidence.

 

Now, independent of my rant about your processes and practices, I've noticed a few things about Armor, some good. It does appear to have caught some ugliness on a couple of sites I visited, and I like getting notifications when devices join the network. But there is a little bit of granularity in the reporting that would be nice to have.

 

Also, my security score has ping-ponged between 80 and 85 over the last several days with no actual changes to the configuration of the network or the Armor implementation. It started out at 84 9 days ago. Then dropped to 80 4 days ago "because you have a number of devices without on-the-go protection" though no more or fewer than I ever had allowed on the network. Then it increased to 85 "because Bitefender security was installed on my device" though it didn't tell me which device, and I didn't knowingly install Bitdefender Security on any devices. Then it dropped to 81k today for the "on-the-go devices" reason again. I haven't made any specific interventions at any turn, and havne't implemented any of the suggested improvements it recommended. This may all be normal, but without explanation it just seems kind of arbitrary.

 

Your marketing fluff talks about adding a Netgear or Bitdefender VPN service without talking about any of the features (encryption policies, privacy policies, speed, geographic endpoints) that people use to evaluate VPNs. As far as I know there's no way to use the Orbi (Nighthawks can be flashed to use DD-WRT firmware instead of Netgear's to do this) to connect to 3rd party VPNs that actually do let you evaluate the quality of their service offerings. Even your "on-the-go" protection isn't clearly distinguished from whatever is happening on the router...it takes a while to figure out that you're actually blindly supposed to install this other software on all your devices.

 

In the end, this product/service basically seems half-baked, like it was written by a committee of the marketing and engineering departments, with the marketing departments in charge. You're asking customers to place a whole lot of their data in your and Bitdefender's hands without much explicit explanation of how that stuff is supposed to be protected. The priority doesn't really seem like security--that just seems like sort of a buzzword and a necessary complication to a business opportunity to get in on a subscription model service. 

 

Let your security and customer service people be in charge of the product for a while and it might actually turn out to be useful.

 

Message 27 of 76
iankh
Guide

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

So far, my experience is horrible. I bought a subscription, through the Orbi mobile app, but even after activating, it still shows as either "expired" on the mobile app, and "Not Enabled" on the browser router management. No information on how to resolve it. No answers to support tickets. Pretty bad experience all around. I should have known better than to spend money on this.

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 28 of 76
Mikener
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

I don't know much about routers so please bear with me. I hope this is the correct forum to ask the questions below. But first some background.

 

I recently installed the Orbi AC 3000 Tri Band Mesh system. It's been great. I could use so advice. My family is very dependent on WIFI and it would be a hardship if it was down, especially since my daughter is taking online classes.

 

My Armor trial is about to expire. So far I have had no problems with the router and Armor. In fact Armor alerted me to a few phishing attacks on my wife's IPhone. Because of that I was considering paying for Armor. Then I read some of the comments about Armor slowing the connection speed (that hasn't been an issue for me during the trial period) and the fact that when the trial ends people seem to be having all sorts of problems. Problems that I don't feel technically knowledgable enough to fix.

 

If Armor worked great and didn't impact performance I would have no hesitation paying for the product. I would like to know what people think.

 

1. Given what I have said, should I pay for Armor or should I just let the trial expire?

2. If I do let the trial expire and I cannot connect to WIFI, how do I correct that problem?

3. If I pay for Armor and then down the line decide to turn it off, can that be done? If so how?

 

Thanks

 

Message 29 of 76
rinthos
Luminary

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

1: If armor is serving a purpose for you and you are getting value out of it, keep it. If not, drop it.

2: Armor expiring should not prevent you from connecting to WiFi. If you are worried that is the case, turn it off before it expires or buy a subscription. But I can attest that with some devices with it enabled and others without it (I have multiple remote sites w/ netgear routers) I have never had that type of problem.

3: you can always turn it off or back on if you have a live subscription or trial period...

https://kb.netgear.com/000060900/How-do-I-turn-NETGEAR-Armor-on-or-off-using-the-Nighthawk-or-Orbi-a...

Regarding performance there is a slight latency hit but for general throughput for a higher end router (such as Orbi) you are unlikely to notice it. The first time you connect to a remote website or server the initial connection time is milliseconds slower, but that's about it.
Plus you get the free bit defender software which with the web browser plug in may be more impactful to performance...again that depends on your PC or Mac specs...
Use your trial period to push it to the limits. If you have been happy so far my guess is you shouldn't worry about performance. You are likely to figure it out after just a few days of performance testing.

Hope this helps.
Message 30 of 76
Mikener
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Thanks. That help's a lot.

Message 31 of 76
WinterMute
Star

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

My comment is now N/A but I can't delete it. I can only rewrite it, as I'm doing now.

I just enabled Armor yesterday and it's been randomly killing the Internet connection for all devices (wired and wireless). My modem and Internet connectivity are fine, the Router is just doing something to lock everything down and I cannot find anywhere in the Router to either manage Armor, view logs, or otherwise troubleshoot the problem.

I did figure out how to walk through Support and set up a ticket that I don't have to pay for. We'll see how this goes.

Model: RAX200|Nighthawk Tri-band AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 32 of 76
kjdspike
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Been on the Nighthawk App today and the secuirty option is showing as expired. Only option is to be redirected to buy the Armor service again. However when logging on to the webpage Armor is still showing 11 months of subscription remaining. VERY poor user experience. Would not be renewing in the future. 


Model: R8000P|Nighthawk X6S AC4000 Tri Band WiFi Router
Message 33 of 76
bsharper53
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

I really don't understand the purpose of this thread.

 

Despite the negative feedback, nothing changes. Netgear is not going to deactivate BitDefender. The "solution" Christian offers doesn't work. Why waste our time with such a pointless discussion?

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 34 of 76
AG81
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

My experience is terrible. Netgear enabled armor without my permission and initiated a trial on my behalf. I have no use for this snake oil, to begin with, but it is forced upon me by this company is crossing the line. Last Netgear product I will buy. 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 35 of 76
Norm_J
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

After trying bitdefender on my phone, I find it intrusive. I cannot figure out how to uninstall bitdefender on android phone. I don't want to deactivate, I want the bits gone.
Message 36 of 76
WinterMute
Star

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Hi Christian_R:  you'd asked me to set up a ticket. That went badly, so here is some constructive feedback for you:

1) I was only able to interact with Armor through the Mobile App.  When I see it in the Router login, I should be able in some way to interact with it.

2) At one point, I managed to get into a web portal related to Armor. That appeared to be useful, I have no idea how I got there or how to get back again.

3) I had to use the Mobile App to disable Armor.  I was not finished with my trial period.  I have no visibility into whether Netgear / Bitdefender is going to bill me at the end or the trial period, but if that happens I'll be reversing the charge (just FYI).

4) When you e-mail a notification that my ticket has been updated, the e-mail should contain a link to at least let me go to My Support and/or login so I don't have to go find the site and drill down to get into my ticket.

5) Reference Case #: 43178179. My first reply apparently disappeared, I wrote a second one ending in "please reply to this so that I know my response was received"...no response, had to ping again ("anyone home?") and eventually got a generic "let's reset the router" suggestion.  I've already read on others' posts how at best that just buys time before the problem returns, so no.

6) I need a way to examine something Armor detects & blocks and either whitelist it or report that it's a false positive.  "A Spam attempt" kept showing up with no way for me to a) see the details or b) take action if Armor was wrong.

That's all the feedback specific to Armor I have. I do have other items related to Netgear and BitDefender if you feel they would be useful.

I've been a Netgear customer for about a decade now. This is a surprising disappointment.

Model: RAX200|Nighthawk Tri-band AX12 12-Stream Wi-Fi 6 Router
Message 37 of 76

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Hello,

 

This is lenghty but I think the full explanation will help someone, and perhaps give Netgear the motivation to fix a problem with their security service provider.

 

I own a Netgear Orbi RBK853 mesh system, which I purchased because my Google Nest WiFi mesh network suffered from random but frequent disconnects, and it wasn’t taking full advantage of the speed of my “up to 300 Mbps” Internet service. Initially, the Orbi system worked like a charm, with no dropouts and speeds that met or exceeded my service limits.

 

Suddenly, I began to experience disconnects at a rate of 3-4 times a day, and when I checked my hardware, neither my router nor my cable modem indicated any problems - no lights were active or blinking as if a problem was present. If I did nothing, the connection was restored after 3-4 minutes. I have an ARRIS SB8200 cable modem and, as I indicated, my Internet service is 300 Mbps download/10 Mbps upload through Shentel. The Orbi firmware version was V3.2.15.25_1.3.15. I purchased the 3-pack (1 router/2 satellites) and installed it on the day of delivery, which was May 26th. I've done a total reset and reconfiguration once to register the RBR850 router with my Netgear Armor subscription. I have one satellite unit at different levels of our split-level home. I started experiencing the disconnects around mid-July.

 

I contacted Netgear technical support and they sent me a link to a V3.2.15.32_1.3.25 firmware hotfix, and told me to configure my router as follows:

  • 2.4GHz - Channel 11
  • 5GHz - Channel 48
  • MTU - 1484
  • DNS Servers - Primary - 8.8.8.8; Secondary - 8.8.4.4

The dropouts appeared to have lessened, but they persisted and, eventually, they were back up to 3-4 times a day. I updated to the latest firmware, V3.2.16.6_1.4.4, and that is what I’m currently running.

 

After I read that Netgear Armor could be the cause of the dropouts, I disabled Netgear Armor on my RBR850 router. I only have an 18-hour sample size, but so far, I've not experienced a dropout of service. If the results are the same in 24-48 hours, then it's safe to conclude that Armor was the problem.

 

The question then is what to do with that information. I'm subscribed to the service until next July, and even though the router implementaiton is a failure, the unlimited Bitdefender Total Internet Security licenses for my smartphones, PCs and laptops makes the subscription worthwhile, and I do use the VPN service on my smartphone.


The best outcome would be for Netgear to figure out why the routers are disconnecting when running Armor and fix the problem so their customers get what they paid for.

Message 38 of 76

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

This is a postscript to my previous lenghty post. Since I disabled Armor on my router on August 31st, I have not experienced any noticeable disconnects or dropouts on my Orbi network. The Armor router implementation was the cause of my problem all along.

 


@millerre1959 wrote:

Hello,

 

This is lenghty but I think the full explanation will help someone, and perhaps give Netgear the motivation to fix a problem with their security service provider.

 

I own a Netgear Orbi RBK853 mesh system, which I purchased because my Google Nest WiFi mesh network suffered from random but frequent disconnects, and it wasn’t taking full advantage of the speed of my “up to 300 Mbps” Internet service. Initially, the Orbi system worked like a charm, with no dropouts and speeds that met or exceeded my service limits.

 

Suddenly, I began to experience disconnects at a rate of 3-4 times a day, and when I checked my hardware, neither my router nor my cable modem indicated any problems - no lights were active or blinking as if a problem was present. If I did nothing, the connection was restored after 3-4 minutes. I have an ARRIS SB8200 cable modem and, as I indicated, my Internet service is 300 Mbps download/10 Mbps upload through Shentel. The Orbi firmware version was V3.2.15.25_1.3.15. I purchased the 3-pack (1 router/2 satellites) and installed it on the day of delivery, which was May 26th. I've done a total reset and reconfiguration once to register the RBR850 router with my Netgear Armor subscription. I have one satellite unit at different levels of our split-level home. I started experiencing the disconnects around mid-July.

 

I contacted Netgear technical support and they sent me a link to a V3.2.15.32_1.3.25 firmware hotfix, and told me to configure my router as follows:

  • 2.4GHz - Channel 11
  • 5GHz - Channel 48
  • MTU - 1484
  • DNS Servers - Primary - 8.8.8.8; Secondary - 8.8.4.4

The dropouts appeared to have lessened, but they persisted and, eventually, they were back up to 3-4 times a day. I updated to the latest firmware, V3.2.16.6_1.4.4, and that is what I’m currently running.

 

After I read that Netgear Armor could be the cause of the dropouts, I disabled Netgear Armor on my RBR850 router. I only have an 18-hour sample size, but so far, I've not experienced a dropout of service. If the results are the same in 24-48 hours, then it's safe to conclude that Armor was the problem.

 

The question then is what to do with that information. I'm subscribed to the service until next July, and even though the router implementaiton is a failure, the unlimited Bitdefender Total Internet Security licenses for my smartphones, PCs and laptops makes the subscription worthwhile, and I do use the VPN service on my smartphone.


The best outcome would be for Netgear to figure out why the routers are disconnecting when running Armor and fix the problem so their customers get what they paid for.


Message 39 of 76
Mikener
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Thanks.

Based on what I read I decided to let the Armor trial end without renewing it.

Message 40 of 76
inspectorgadjet
Apprentice

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

My experience has not been great.

I activated the trial on my RAX120 earlier this year and it seemed fine but definitely had some minor issues at the time. I decided to buy a subscription anyway and see how it went.

Since firmware 1.0.2.236 I have had endless problems with devices losing connectivity and the router hanging. I tried reinstalling the firmware using the downloaded file instead of OTA and also factory resetting. Took me ages to figure out that activating Armor was causing the issue. Since disabling it there have been no further issues.

 

The other things that really annoy me about Armor and add to the reasons I will not renew are:

1. Even when you have the bitdefender software installed on iPhones and iPads it doesn't recognise it so your score shows as lower than it should be.

2. Devices on the guest network also show as needing bitdefender installed which is pointless. I can't tell people to install bitdefender on their devices or install it on my work laptop either, so why have them show up in there at all and reduce the score? Isn't the point of a guest network to segregate devices from the rest of your home network?

3. Only being able to activate and deactivate on the mobile app is stupid. Both the mobile app and web interface are also way too limited to be of any use.

4. If the software that is supposed to be protecting your network is actually causing it to crash all the time, it's not very good software.

Model: RAX120|Nighthawk AX12 12-Stream WiFi Router
Message 41 of 76
Mikener
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Thanks for the informative advice.

Message 42 of 76
blenderpilot
Tutor

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

Message 43 of 76
BruKat
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

I have the some random printing with a Epson ET-2720 printer, usually once a week.

Attached a sample printing, they are all the sam.

I need it for remote printing.

Need a fix, was told by Epson that it was probably a Armor issue?

Paid for subscription but will probably end up getting rid of it since i need remote printing and hate wasting paper on random print.

Thanks

Model: R7000P|Nighthawk AC2300 Smart WiFi Dual Band Gigabit Router
Message 44 of 76
rinthos
Luminary

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

So yep, the page you are seeing is being generated by Netgear Armor weekly scans.

The Netgear Armor / Bit Defender team will need to update their scanner.  It appears currently they are sending scan commands to your printer to try to "hack it", but some of those commands are being sent over ports that are interpreted as "print" commands.

 

If your printer allows you to block IP addresses from printing, you could likely block any printing from 192.168.1.1.  IF it doesn;t, then either it will need to be Off when the Armor scan occurs, or there will need to be an update to the Armor Scanner.

I know Netgear often updates the Bitdefender Armor scanner in newer firmwars...so make sure you are on the latest firmware for your router, as it may contain this fix.  If not, I'd open a case w/ Netgear and even Bit Defender, they'll need to have their teams provide an update.

 

You didn't mention what model router you had by the way, nor what firmware version, but the latest firmware recommendation still stands 🙂


@BruKat wrote:

I have the some random printing with a Epson ET-2720 printer, usually once a week.

Attached a sample printing, they are all the sam.

I need it for remote printing.

Need a fix, was told by Epson that it was probably a Armor issue?

Paid for subscription but will probably end up getting rid of it since i need remote printing and hate wasting paper on random print.

Thanks


 

Message 45 of 76
BruKat
Aspirant

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

R7000P

Model #: C634E

 Did say updated firmware 1..1.64_10.1.36.

Downloaded and installed your suggested fix V1.3.2.126_10.1.66

Thanks

Model: R7000P|Nighthawk AC2300 Smart WiFi Dual Band Gigabit Router
Message 46 of 76
CanadianGuy
Guide

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

This seems to be one of the few residential-grade network monitoring solutions, so was happy considering the number of IoT devices on my network which obviously can't use security onboard.

 

Really frustrated with the customer service experience with Netgear; including Armor. I understand (though don't like) the short warranty period on the product--but Armor is a service which cannot always be contractually executed without support. This also includes shortcomings from within Netgear device firmware as evidenced by the upgrade notes.

 

Whitelist:  it was mentioned in the forums back in January/19 via Netgear moderator--is it still coming?

 

Netgear support form product drop-down list doesn't include Netgear products to select; only BitDefender

 

Having option to upgrade included BitDefender service with an additional fee

 

iOS BitDefender app is missing alot of key features, and doesn't have much functionality.

 

Hope that helps...

 

 

Model: R7000P|Nighthawk AC2300 Smart WiFi Dual Band Gigabit Router
Message 47 of 76
John_Ba
Luminary

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

So far most of my experience using the product with a Orbi 50 with 2 satellites has been mixed. I put the program onto one Android and one PC. I found I had some very basic problems, the program tries to download and get me to install an update to flash player for IE, not surprisingly windows update isn’t interested. It also identified a Outlook archive.pst  file as safe to delete.

 

Bitdefender have said 2 of the issues have now been addressed by updates to the program, but is Netgear Armor just using an old version of Bitdefender?  As my Netgear version  is 24 and the current Bitdefender with the fix’s is 25. If so how many other fix’s are missing from the Netgear version?

Message 48 of 76
schumaku
Guru

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience


@John_Ba wrote:

Bitdefender have said 2 of the issues have now been addressed by updates to the program, but is Netgear Armor just using an old version of Bitdefender?  As my Netgear version  is 24 and the current Bitdefender with the fix’s is 25. If so how many other fix’s are missing from the Netgear version?


No old version - and I cant resist to quote this from the below answers referred:

 

===
NOTE: If you don’t have the above build number, keep in mind that product updates are delivered in stages and the live build might not have reached your PC yet. Once the product update reaches 100%, it is automatically downloaded and installed. Then, Bitdefender will request a Windows restart.
===

 

Get almost all your Netgear Armor questions answered by the official partner -> Netgear Armor powered by Bitdefender  

 

To my knowledge, there is no specific Netgear Armor version for the endpoints. Netgear is not involved what becomes available when.

 

Needless to say, the Bitdefender stuff (like the network vulnerability scanner) were specifically built and maintained for the Netgear routers.

 

Online and offline updates are the very same:

Message 49 of 76
inspectorgadjet
Apprentice

Re: Share Your NETGEAR Armor Experience

So with the new firmware for my RAX120 and also an update, I thought it would be worth turning on Armor again. While my router is no longer crashing all the time, there's not much improvement to the app itself. Still no way to exclude guest devices and it still shows iPhones in the list of devices that need the software installed which reduces your protection level score, but now I have a new thing reducing the score....it says I need to update the firmware on my router when I'm already on the latest firmware.

 

This product just doesn't seem ready and fully functional and maybe should have been developed and tested for a while longer. The recent updates have not changed my mind about continuing with this product once my year is up.

 

1F41223A-19B7-4A50-BC2F-F9175084A97C.jpeg

Message 50 of 76
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