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Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

So since Netgear is removing the "Live Parental Control" from their routers (which is good, I don't want to have to go to some other site just to change configuration), just WHEN are you going to restore the LOCAL Parental Control functionality in the firmware?  Properly, it should be available *NOW* (as it never should have been removed in the first place) so you should be providing a patch to fix your oversight immediately.  I need a function that DISABLES connections immediately, which means I would have to have local controls.  An online filter only works for manipulating DNS lookups (and probably is broken by DNS-over-HTTPS, and I can't shut that off on a school-managed Chromebook anyway).

Message 1 of 16
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality


@jelabarre59 wrote:

So since Netgear is removing the "Live Parental Control" from their routers (which is good, I don't want to have to go to some other site just to change configuration), just WHEN are you going to restore the LOCAL Parental Control functionality in the firmware?  Properly, it should be available *NOW* (as it never should have been removed in the first place) so you should be providing a patch to fix your oversight immediately.  I need a function that DISABLES connections immediately, which means I would have to have local controls.  An online filter only works for manipulating DNS lookups (and probably is broken by DNS-over-HTTPS, and I can't shut that off on a school-managed Chromebook anyway).


I am not certain that Netgear is removing Parental Controls.  Disney Circle is still working. And, the "New" Netgear version of Parental Controls is available on the original Orbi product line and will be available on the AX product line "in a few months."

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/Parental-Controls-missing-on-RBR850/... 

I believe what is happening is that the older "Live" Parental Controls is going away in favor of the newer products.

 

My understanding is that Netgear got into the Parental Controls business (with "Live", with Disney, and now by themselves) because the methods that had been used on routers for years no longer met peoples' needs.  The new "Smart Parental Controls" come in free and subscription versions. (See toward the bottom of the page for differences)

https://www.netgear.com/home/services/smart-parental-controls/#parental-control 

 

The Orbi "app" will disable connections immediately, although that is probably not the intention.

 

It is really frustrating that Netgear does not have employees watching the community forums, where customers discuss Netgear products amongst themselves.  We are left to speculate about things and have no influence on Netgear business decisions.

I love my Orbi.
Message 2 of 16
nalawa63
Tutor

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

What is the go with no parental controls within the D7800 to allow me to restrict/monitor my children's internet access? Surely this is a mandatory requirement for a modern family.  Unless I can get some level of control I will have to return this and find a different modem/router which supports my requirements.

Model: D7800|Nighthawk X4S – AC2600 WiFi VDSL/ADSL Modem Router
Message 3 of 16
nalawa63
Tutor

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

Just bought a D7800 and Netgear have definitely removed "live parent controls" and replaced it with absolutely nothing!  It provides absolutely no way to restrict/control/manage my children's internet access, a must in modern society!  Netgear's new "smart parental controls" aren't available on the nighthawk so looks like I'll be returning it and looking for an alternative :-(

Message 4 of 16
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

You are entirely correct.  Good luck on fiinding something.  I searched for "Best Parental Controls" and am not sure I believe their story:

https://www.lifewire.com/best-parental-control-routers-4160776 

I love my Orbi.
Message 5 of 16
nalawa63
Tutor

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

What a debacle, looks like all the manufactures are trying to force you to have a "subscription" rather then give you the controls in the modem/router.  My old ADSL modem/router from 10 years ago had infinite control, the TP-Link modem I have now states it has "parental controls" but they are less than optimal to the point of almost useless.  This is very disheartening.

Message 6 of 16

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality


@CrimpOn wrote:

You are entirely correct.  Good luck on fiinding something.  I searched for "Best Parental Controls" and am not sure I believe their story:

https://www.lifewire.com/best-parental-control-routers-4160776 


I see a couple that apparently require a cellphone app to manage the router, or at least to manage the parental controls.  Being forced to use a phone/tablet is just unacceptable to me, and I'll automatically reject any such product.

 

One particular issue I see with most Parental Controls is they are far too "static" in their configurations.  I need to be able to dynamically shut off a connection, or to temporarily tweak a profile.  And it seems a lot of these are relying on DNS to manage connections and filtering, but it would seem once a device has already run a DNS query, then it will have it in an ARP cache and won't hit DNS for a while (I know just enough networking to be dangerous Smiley Frustrated).  Technically what I'm in need of is more "access controls" than "parental controls", but they usually get lumped together.

 

As I had this R6220 that we had bought for a temporary usage for a tenant, and now we don't need it for that anymore, I had hoped to make use of it for home.  Doesn't look as though it's fit for purpose.  I've looked at OpenWRT as an alternative [1}; it should be quite capable of doing it but figuring out the commands and scripting is a pain.  My daughter will probably graduate from high school before I get that worked out. 

 

[1] (I have a R7000 I found in an electronics recycling bin; it has 19.7.7 on it right now.  As I say above, figuring out the access/parental controls is not so straightforward, although if I can figure the commands out it should be simple enough to make Ansible playbooks to do what I want).

Message 7 of 16
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality


@jelabarre59 wrote:

 

I see a couple that apparently require a cellphone app to manage the router, or at least to manage the parental controls.  Being forced to use a phone/tablet is just unacceptable to me, and I'll automatically reject any such product.


This is so interesting.  My mobile is always in my shirt pocket. Opening the Orbi app and sliding the "Pause" button would be a lot more convenient than logging into a computer interface, navigating to some screen, etc.  "Different strokes for different folks".

 


@jelabarre59 wrote:

One particular issue I see with most Parental Controls is they are far too "static" in their configurations.  I need to be able to dynamically shut off a connection, or to temporarily tweak a profile.  And it seems a lot of these are relying on DNS to manage connections and filtering, but it would seem once a device has already run a DNS query, then it will have it in an ARP cache and won't hit DNS for a while (I know just enough networking to be dangerous Smiley Frustrated).  Technically what I'm in need of is more "access controls" than "parental controls", but they usually get lumped together.


Technically, it is the DNS cache, and Yes, entries stay in the local device cache until their "Time to Live" expires.  I have seen articles about "How do Parental Controls work" discussing whether they are only DNS or have some other capabilities.  Having no one to "Parent", I have not spent much time researching how controls work.

 

 

I love my Orbi.
Message 8 of 16

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality


@CrimpOn wrote:

This is so interesting.  My mobile is always in my shirt pocket. Opening the Orbi app and sliding the "Pause" button would be a lot more convenient than logging into a computer interface, navigating to some screen, etc.  "Different strokes for different folks".


Oh, I could certainly make occasional use of an app, but only in addition to a web or CLI interface. You need to be able to type information, and copy/paste as well. Anything more than minimal settings is awkward or even outright impossible on a phone screen.

 

Message 9 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

Well, these are home systems for consumers - where the majority of users just want flawless Internet. The last thing consumers want is a CLI, or the requirement to type much, ...

 

Of course, as an old IT infrastructure and network crow the blunt minimum would be a Web UI - as a nice to have.

 

Curious what you would intend to type, copy-paste, in the parental control context here...?

 

And in the same context I would like to hear how you would seriously reach the ability to "locally" control (technically!) the access just on a router in the data stream - considering kids are smarter than most parents - and without taking the end user device under strict security policy management.

 

Message 10 of 16

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

I would  think a router should be able to start rejecting packets from some particular endpoint (MAC address of the device you want to cut off).  That would effectively cut off an internet connection because the router would not handle the packets going out or coming in.  I know the connections at a prior job could immediately drop connections for certain situations (misbehaving or misconfigured hardware usually).

 

It isn't like my daughter could use a cell phone as a work-around, because we don't have a cell signal at our house.  Sure, she's clever when she wants, but generally she's too lazy to try.  And I suppose if I put up enough roadblocks she'd start making an effort just to try working around them (a win in itself).

Message 11 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

When you think about that modern OS default to random MAC addresses ... blocking and manging MAC must be fun.

 

Other proposals?

 

PS. My sons are in the mid twenties now. They faced managed switches with port security some 20 years ago, and commercial grade firewall. So they had to be on a steep learning curve 8-)

 

PPS. It's a war you can't win.

Message 12 of 16
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality


@jelabarre59 wrote:

I would  think a router should be able to start rejecting packets from some particular endpoint (MAC address of the device you want to cut off).  That would effectively cut off an internet connection because the router would not handle the packets going out or coming in. 


This is exactly what the "Pause" control on the Orbi app does. Immediately stop packets to/from a particular device.  (Or Blocking the device in Security-> Access Control, which takes more steps but does the same thing.)

 

My sense is that manual control is not the desired end result.  The only automated device control on the Orbi is "Block Services" which suffers from having only 1 master schedule that has to be within a single 24 hour time period.  (i.e. block from 10am to 2pm works, but block from 10pn to 2am does not work).

 

I am SO glad not to have this issue to worry over.

I love my Orbi.
Message 13 of 16
nalawa63
Tutor

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

As a result of this I have now returned the D7800 and will be going with another brand which provided the level of parental control I require

Model: D7800|Nighthawk X4S – AC2600 WiFi VDSL/ADSL Modem Router
Message 14 of 16
schumaku
Guru

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality


@nalawa63 wrote:

As a result of this I have now returned the D7800


it's a big problem that many existing devices in the market, including models still offered (like the D7800) are completely ignored. Much worse, what used to be available tends to become inop.

 


@nalawa63 wrote:

...and will be going with another brand which provided the level of parental control I require


Would you mind to share what solution you went for? Reason asking is that xDSL offerings became a rare species.

 

 

Message 15 of 16
nalawa63
Tutor

Re: Restoring LOCAL parental control functionality

One of the reasons I chose the D7800 was it supported VLAN ID because my ISP require this for PPPoE connection.

 

However, I am also moving house and have used this to now change ISP.  My new ISP uses IPoE, therefore no VLAN ID and as I don't need a VOIP phone, no longer a requirement for a modem/router either as I can plug just a router into the NBN NTD for my FTTC connection.  

 

So my solution, noting we are already a googlefied home is to go with a Google Nest Wifi mesh system which provides all the parental/access controls I want.

 

regards

 

Chris

Message 16 of 16
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