Fastest Transfer setup - twin LAN cables or USB?

You can simply move the drives from the old unit to the new and it will recognize them.  But you should install only those drives initially, then add more once it's up and running.  That could be the two new 8TB in yet another RAID1, if that's what you want.  But as StephenB says, that may not be the best way to go.

Personally, I would have left the two 2TB drives out of the equation all together even if you are starting the new NAS from scratch.  You won't later be able to simply remove them, as they will be a part of a 4-drive RAID5 level.  To grow the volume, you'll have to replace them with drives of at least 8TB, and anything on those replacement drives will be lost.  You can go in and destroy the volume before it completes syncing if you want to start over.

OK, I've turned it off hopefully cancelling the ridiculously long sync that was still going on this morning when I came to my office! I only wanted the system to boot so I could set it up, and the disks should all be empty anyway!

I figured RAID1 was going to give me the most pure backup of a disk - and if a disk fails, I know they are simply in pairs matching each other. 3 disks, each with a backup. simples. In my mind it was the neatest way!

Surely anything that will give me more that 24TB wouldn't be backing up all of the data? Otherwise how can it possibly give me more than 3x8TB of space?

I need to learn more about RAID!

OK, I've gone and learnt a bit about the differences in RAID, and I know now that RAID1 was not the best choice - RAID10 would have been a faster method of having 1:1 data backup (Which goes back to my original reason for posting on this forum!)

I guess I didn't understand that the parity  , taking up half of the space, would have enough data for  recovering all the data.

But  I guess I can let the NAS worry about that. If I installed 8TB in all 6 of the bays,  I could end up with the NAS displaying that I have one huge 32GB volume?

Now I guess I need to know, how I'd  copy over from the exsisting 4-bay NAS. 

As I have such a simple RAID 1 setup, I guess I could keep drives 1&3, erase 2 and 4,  then install all the drives - two 8TB of data, and 4 8TB empty, and let the NAS rearrange it all? Or would it not handle it like that? 

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b3nb_123 wrote:

OK, I've gone and learnt a bit about the differences in RAID, and I know now that RAID1 was not the best choice - RAID10 would have been a faster method of having 1:1 data backup (Which goes back to my original reason for posting on this forum!)

 

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IMO, The main benefit of RAID-1 is that it offers the easiest data recovery if that is ever needed.  Each disk contains all the data, and can be mounted and processed independently.

The performance difference between RAID-1, RAID-5, and RAID-10 on the RN316 is fairly small - for large file transfers the performance is limited by gigabit ethernet, not by the RAID mode.

FWIW, I generally go with XRAID single redundancy, though one of my backup NAS (an RN202) is using jbod to maximize capacity.

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b3nb_123 wrote:

 

Now I guess I need to know, how I'd  copy over from the exsisting 4-bay NAS. 

As I have such a simple RAID 1 setup, I guess I could keep drives 1&3, erase 2 and 4,  then install all the drives - two 8TB of data, and 4 8TB empty, and let the NAS rearrange it all? Or would it not handle it like that? 

---

I think this depends in part on where you want to end up.

One possibility is that you can repurpose the RN104 as a backup NAS.  Personally I like using another NAS as my backup, using the built in backup jobs to update the backups automatically every day.  Matching your existing capacity would take 3x8 TB in both NAS, and you would have 1 bay in the RN104 for expansion, and 3 bays in the RN316. 

One process would be something like this: 

1. set up the RN316 with 2x8 TB XRAID
2. use rsync backup jobs to copy one of the RN104 volumes to the RN316
3. remove one disk from that RN104 volume, and use it to expand the RN316 volume to 16 TB
4. use rsync backup jobs to copy the second RN104 volume to the RN316
5. Do a factory default on the RN104, and set it up as 3x8TB XRAID
6. use rsync backups to copy back the data from the RN316.  These same backups can be scheduled to keep the RN104 up to date.

It is also possible to migrate your main RN104 volume to the RN316 (with no other disks in place).  Then you could expand it using the 8 TB disks you already have in the RN316.  Then use rsync backup to copy data from your second volume to the RN316, and use the remaining RN104 disks to expand the RN316 to 6x8 TB (perhaps using RAID-6 - which is slower, but offers protection against two disk failures).  This process would make sense if you want to take the RN104 out of service. 

Though there are some benefits in starting over with a clean slate on the RN316.  So you could also adapt the first process to do that (dropping steps 5 and 6, and instead expanding the RN316 volume with the remaining RN104 disks).

If I put the complete set of disks from my 104 into  the first four bays of my 316, regardless of settings, will the system recognise what RAID they are in and just be happy with them? Or will it risk the contents of the drives?

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b3nb_123 wrote:

If I put the complete set of disks from my 104 into  the first four bays of my 316, regardless of settings, will the system recognise what RAID they are in and just be happy with them? 

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You can just migrate all the disks with both NAS powered down.

It is best to 

• install the same firmware on both systems
• uninstall any apps you have on the RN104

The RN316 will convert the OS from arm to x86 when you power up.  After that you can reinstall any apps.

One difference that will persist - the RN104 OS partition is ext.  Normally the RN316 would have a btrfs OS partition.  But you migrate, the NAS will not change the format - so it will remain ext.  This shouldn't matter, but is something you should be aware of, as it might affect some troubleshooting later on.

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b3nb_123 wrote:

Or will it risk the contents of the drives?

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There is always some risk when handling drives (including accidentally dropping one!).  But OS-6 does support migrating the disks.

I updated  both firmwares, shut both down, and inserted my four disks from my 104 into the first four slots my 316 (Leaving the two new drives out for now),  and it booted with no messages about syncing data etc. However it's only showing one volume in the Device Overview.

Under  'Volumes' it shows a red dot next to the second drive, and says 'remove the inactive volumes to use the disk'

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b3nb_123 wrote:

 

Under  'Volumes' it shows a red dot next to the second drive, and says 'remove the inactive volumes to use the disk'

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Not sure what happened.  I suggest downloading the log zip file next.

Then contact the mods ( Marc_V and JeraldM ) via private message (PM) and ask them to analyze the logs for you.  You send PMs by clicking on the envelope link in the upper right of the forum page.

You won't be able to attach the log zip to your PM.  Instead, put it into cloud storage (google drive, iCloud, dropbox, ...) and then include a download link.

Thanks StephenB I asked them - however, this morning another reboot and the original drives are all showing the volumes and settings, just like it's the old NAS 104 👍

WHat's weird though, is one of the drive bays has a solid red light showing, however, there's no sign of any problem in the admin, and no message on the little screen.

Now to get my two new 8TB drives added... I'm thinking I'll keep it set as RAID1, as I don't want to start copying this data around, they're big 8TB disks, and pretty full too, it'd be a big faff!

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b3nb_123 wrote:

WHat's weird though, is one of the drive bays has a solid red light showing, however, there's no sign of any problem in the admin, and no message on the little screen.

 

---

That needs to be figured out.  There is a disk test in the volume settings wheel that you can run.  

Is the volume status shown as "degraded"?

No, it's not saying anything, just 'Healthy'

Running a disk test now

Thanks for the continued help on this now long thread - it long since lost the relevance to it's title! lol

I ran a disk check on the drive with the red light next to it. The lights are all now  blue. However, on the  logs page, the log  page the top line has a yellow warning saying Volume: Disk test failed on disk in channel 4.

Everything still showing as healthy! Don't know whether to look into it further!?

My original task with buying this 316 was to expand my nas onto two more drives. it I add two new 8TB drives, can I just click extend, and make one of my volumes bigger, rather than have it showing as another drive?

Format both the new drives, in the NAS then use them to extend one of my 8TB RAID1 volumes into a 16TB RAID1 Volume?
Is that how it works?

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b3nb_123 wrote:

 

My original task with buying this 316 was to expand my nas onto two more drives. it I add two new 8TB drives, can I just click extend, and make one of my volumes bigger, rather than have it showing as another drive?

Format both the new drives, in the NAS then use them to extend one of my 8TB RAID1 volumes into a 16TB RAID1 Volume?

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You can expand one of the volumes.  But 4x8TB will give you a 24 TB volume RAID-5 volume, not a 16 TB RAID-1 volume.

Instructions are in the software manual - see page 40 "to horizontally expand a FLEX-Raid volume":

• https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/READYNAS-100/READYNAS_OS_6_SM_EN.pdf

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b3nb_123 wrote:

 

I ran a disk check on the drive with the red light next to it. The lights are all now  blue. However, on the  logs page, the log  page the top line has a yellow warning saying Volume: Disk test failed on disk in channel 4.

 

---

The disk test is run from the volume settings wheel, and tests all the disks in that particular volume.  One thing to double-check is whether you ran the test on the correct volume (or maybe both).

You definitely need to sort out your disk health (unfortunately the red/blue status on the volume page is not a reliable guide).

Download the full log zip file from the logs page.  Look at volume.log. It will include a summary of key indicators of disk health for each disk at the beginning - for example, 

Disk sda:
	HostID: 2fe72582
	Flags: 0x2000
	Size: 19532873728 (9314 GB)
	Free: 14
	Controller 0
	Channel: 0
	Model: WDC WD100EFAX-68LHPN0
	Serial: 
	Firmware: 83.H0A83W
	Class: SATA (2)
	RPM: 5400
	SMART Data:
		Reallocated Sectors:            0
		Reallocation Events:            0
		Spin Retry Count:               0
		Current Pending Sector Count:   0
		Uncorrectable Sector Count:     0
		Temperature:                    29
		Start/Stop Count:               8445
		Power-On Hours:                 31020
		Power Cycle Count:              14
		Load Cycle Count:               8780
		Latest Self Test:               Passed

Reallocation, Pending, and Uncorrectable sector counts and the Latest Self Test results are the most important things to look at.

Scroll down to the very bottom, and you will see some history of the maintenance tasks and resync.  One of mine looks like this:

Data-2      scrub      2022-07-17 00:40:01  2022-07-17 10:00:35  pass                                                                       
data        disk test  2022-08-14 00:40:01  2022-08-14 23:23:59  pass                                                                       
Data-2      defrag     2022-08-21 00:40:08  2022-08-21 00:46:11  completed                                                                  
data        balance    2022-09-11 00:40:01  2022-09-11 00:45:49  completed  Done, had to relocate 156 out of 6523 chunks                    
Data-2      disk test  2022-09-18 00:40:01  2022-09-18 19:30:45  pass                                                                       
data        scrub      2022-10-09 00:40:01  2022-10-09 10:54:10  pass                                                                       
data        defrag     2022-11-13 00:40:07  2022-11-13 00:50:13  completed                                                                  
Data-2      scrub      2022-11-20 00:40:01  2022-11-20 10:05:54  pass 

Note these are tagged with the volume name (data and Data-2 in my case), and doesn't list the specific disks.  But that will confirm what disks you tested.  

FYI, my NAS are set to up automatically run one maintenance task each month on each volume - cycling through the four tasks 3x a year.  

There is more info related to disks in other logs in the zip file, but this is a good place to start.

I've replied twice, but the message vanishes (Apologies if my reply shows several times!)

The drive does show as failed on 'latest self test' every time it appears, and again at the end:

=== maintenance history ===
device operation start_time end_time result details
---------- --------- ------------------- ------------------- --------- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Older disk test 2022-12-09 12:57:37 2022-12-10 01:18:01 fail Channel=4 Model=ST8000NM0055-1RM112 Serial=ZA10BYG0

I guess I just replace the drive? No repair to be done?

Now I have  two spare  slots to play with, I was wondering. Can I turn off the RAID completely? Then remove two parity drives, then install 3 or 4 blank disks and start a fresh RAID 5 setup, then copy the data over, then finally expend it to fill all 6 drives? (That's the only way I can imagine changing these two, separate RAID1  volumes into one huge RAID 5 volume using all six slots!

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b3nb_123 wrote:

 

Now I have  two spare  slots to play with, I was wondering. Can I turn off the RAID completely? Then remove two parity drives, then install 3 or 4 blank disks and start a fresh RAID 5 setup, then copy the data over, then finally expend it to fill all 6 drives? (That's the only way I can imagine changing these two, separate RAID1  volumes into one huge RAID 5 volume using all six slots!

---

Yes, that will work, but is probably not the fastest or safest way to accomplish what you want.  Throughout your ordeal, I've lost track of your current configuration.  I think you have two 2x8TB RAID1 volumes in the 316 that were moved for the 104, one of which has one bad drive. and two additional 8TB you want to add.  The first question is which is the "primary" volume?  It will typically be the first one you created, and will contain the home folders and apps.  If the primary drive is the one with the bad drive, there is more at risk.  Also, are you wanting to re-use the old drives that still work, or have you decided to replace them?

But I don't understand why you rejected expanding one of the existing RAID1 volumes, preferably the primary one, to RAID5 as the first step to get you to a single volume.  After you've done that, you can copy data from the the second volume to the RAID5 one, destroy the second volume, and add the drives that were in the second volume to the other.  If the bad drive is a part of the primary volume, then you'll want to get that fixed before you start the expansion.  You may want to do the same even if the bad drive is in the secondary volume.

The condition of the older drives may be a consideration here.  If they are very old and/or have some bad sectors and you are going to replace them all, then all the re-syncs that will be needed could result in a volume failure.  In that case, your plan to start a third volume with new drives may be the best.

The primary drive (With Home Apps) Isn't the one with the issue, that's the other. I'm buying a new drive to replace that with and will let it resync.

You have everything completely right in your understanding of my setup, and your suggestion is absolutely what I'd like to do, but If I add my two new 8TB drives and expand my primary RAID1 onto there, how can I change it to a RAID5, I can't find a solution to that when I try and look it up.

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b3nb_123 wrote:

how can I change it to a RAID5, I can't find a solution 

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The system will do that for you when you add the third disk to the volume.

You don't currently see a way because you can't create a 2-drive RAID5.  Once you add another drive, you'll be able to select it to add to the primary volume, and as StephenB says, that will re-configure it as RAID5.

I have two new drives in bays 5 and 6. I have clicked Expand and it seems it's now included both the spare drives automatically and it's resyncing.

RAID5 listed in the volume now too! I've been worrying about how to do it, but it's just automatic!

OK, great.  That's the way it's supposed to work, good that it did for you. Netgear did do a good job of making it pretty user friendly.

Did it allow you to add both drives in one re-sync, or is it going to take two?  XRAID will only do one at a time, but I've not done it in OS6 FlexRAID.

Really user-friendly in that it does it all for you, not so much, in that I didn't know the effect clicking one button would have!

Both new drives were added to bays 5 & 6, formatted, they both appeared dark grey showing they were unused. As soon as I clicked 'Expand' on my first volume, without any options, confirmations etc, it immediately took over both the new drives,  changed the Raid mode to RAID5 and started a re-sync that would apparently take 172 hours!!

I'll leave it to it, but it seems I've finally got my head around this NAS system working how I want it to. I regret setting up a 4-bay NAS as two RAID1 pairs! That was a really inefficient idea, but I guess I liked the simplicity of duplicated whole drives.