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New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

Integr8d
Aspirant

New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

Seriously, I've been using the 6-bay Ultra+ model for almost a year now. No problems. An absolute pain to set up though. And also STILL NO 64-bit OSX Remote support. It's been well-past time for that!!!

But I digress...

Having strolled by Iomega's site, looked at the software running the PX4 and PX6, it's clear that Netgear needs to double or triple their dev resources. Why? Because I feel like I'm using Windows 98, while looking over my buddy's shoulder at Win7. And if Netgear is going to keep treating this like a pet project, at least let us know. That's the minimum.

What I would really appreciate is if someone like Yoh-dah would go over to Iomega, look at their UI, look at their personal cloud features, and whatever else needs sizing up and say, "We're six months away from that. Just hold on."

So what up, Netgear?
Message 1 of 9
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

Remote compatible with the 64-bit kernel has been out for months. Check to make sure you have the latest version. See https://remote.ReadyNAS.com/download.html

The ReadyNAS line has never been a pet project. It's an important and successful part of NetGear's business.

The UI is good and functional. It might not be the prettiest but it's feature rich and gets the job done. NetGear does a good job of keeping important packages up to date and maintaining functionality. Moreover it is a strong supporter of the Netatalk project which provides AFP and Time Machine support to the ReadyNAS and its competitors. However a new UI would be nice. It does appear that a major firmware update is in development.
Message 2 of 9
AMRivlin
Apprentice

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

mdgm, while I agree with many of your points (and I respect your vast contribution here) what I think what Intergr8d is saying is: (reading between the lines)

"look it is 2012, while most can be done from the command line, Netgear is losing traction with the prosumer who likes modern guis and enhanced widgets/apps. If you are correct that they are working on it... Intergr8d is just saying, look all the competition has leaked/released/beta'd something for enthusiasts, and for engadget/slashgear/pcworld to oogle over, and Netgear at a very least should share with us (their most loyal customers) as a sign of good will.

SO what if they let some cats out of the bag on new hardware, interface, apps, or all of the above. Competitors are already light years ahead in terms of that, and aren't going to copy new functionality overnight. And if they do, so what again (thunderbolt, quadcore, insert new feature here, are all common knowledge anyway) ReadyNAS team at Netgear can advertise that they are a leader, not a follower.

On the same point, readynas.com is looking tired, and could use some fun posts, and a cleanup of old apps and articles.

And if the entire team is flatout coding/quality controlling/tech-supporting, hire 3 summer web/pr/twitter interns or 1 full time guy, but do something."

mdgm: Side note, Lion and RN Remote didnt work until March this year.
Intergr8d: I actually do not like iomega, their look and support are lacking, I do think http://www.synology.com/dsm/index.php?lang=us DSM4 looks hot
anyone else: I constantly see comments about apps and bells and whistles being unnecessary, well then look at RIMM, they make calls and are secure, but everyone is going with iphone/android, because they are more than functionality. design+function+stability is important, hopefully Netgear reacknowledges this moving forward.
Message 3 of 9
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

AMRivlin wrote:
mdgm, while I agree with many of your points (and I respect your vast contribution here) what I think what Intergr8d is saying is: (reading between the lines)

"look it is 2012, while most can be done from the command line, Netgear is losing traction with the prosumer who likes modern guis and enhanced widgets/apps. If you are correct that they are working on it... Intergr8d is just saying, look all the competition has leaked/released/beta'd something for enthusiasts, and for engadget/slashgear/pcworld to oogle over, and Netgear at a very least should share with us (their most loyal customers) as a sign of good will.

NetGear has already released the new Duo v2 and NV+ v2 with a new UI. NetGear has some add-ons available for the ReadyNAS and there is a large range of community add-ons available. A modern GUI would be nice but it'll take time. Whenever they're asked about this yoh-dah etc. say that there's no ETA for a new UI for x86. These things take time and it's difficult to estimate how long it will take.
AMRivlin wrote:

SO what if they let some cats out of the bag on new hardware, interface, apps, or all of the above.

If they do then it gives time for competitors to copy them and nullify any advantage they may gain from what they release. If they announce stuff well before it's ready the first question people would ask would be when will it be released. They could set a date only to find issues they encounter lead to delays leaving customers disappointed. There's also the impact on sales of current products if they announce new products. If they won't tell me what their product roadmap is I wouldn't expect them to share it with the user base.
AMRivlin wrote:

Competitors are already light years ahead in terms of that, and aren't going to copy new functionality overnight.

Some of them add functionality pretty quickly, but it wouldn't be overnight. It's one thing to add functionality it's quite another to maintain it. Add a feature and you have to maintain that feature, consider what updates are needed to it over time. There's a lot of work and development costs associated with various additions.
AMRivlin wrote:

And if they do, so what again (thunderbolt, quadcore, insert new feature here, are all common knowledge anyway) ReadyNAS team at Netgear can advertise that they are a leader, not a follower.

NetGear's a leader in terms of hardware quality and providing local support. That doesn't mean they need to be the first to run new hardware out the door.
AMRivlin wrote:

On the same point, readynas.com is looking tired, and could use some fun posts, and a cleanup of old apps and articles.

I agree that readynas.com could do with a lot of work.
AMRivlin wrote:

And if the entire team is flatout coding/quality controlling/tech-supporting, hire 3 summer web/pr/twitter interns or 1 full time guy, but do something."

Tech support is not the job of the NetGear developers. Whilst they may do some, the tech support is mostly handled by the separate support team.

yoh-dah and chirpa are on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/yohdah, http://www.twitter.com/chirpah, chirpa runs a ReadyNAS FaceBook fan page: http://www.readynas.com/facebook and yoh-dah is on Google+: https://plus.google.com/107689211378624727495/posts
AMRivlin wrote:

mdgm: Side note, Lion and RN Remote didnt work until March this year.

Lion with 32-bit kernel (yes 64-bit apps work on this) worked for me as soon as it was released. It was only Macs running the 64-bit kernel on Snow Leopard and Lion that Remote wasn't working on.
AMRivlin wrote:

anyone else: I constantly see comments about apps and bells and whistles being unnecessary, well then look at RIMM, they make calls and are secure, but everyone is going with iphone/android, because they are more than functionality. design+function+stability is important, hopefully Netgear reacknowledges this moving forward.

There are plenty of community add-ons available to extend functionality of the ReadyNAS beyond the core functionality offered in the firmware. The new ARM products already have a new UI and perhaps we'll see something similar come to x86.
Message 4 of 9
AMRivlin
Apprentice

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

mdgm, all very well put points, I don't contest anything you have followed up with. If the council does/did read this, perhaps they will consider some refreshed marketing and continued outreach, I don't see real disadvantages to teasing new features in the pipeline.
Message 5 of 9
Integr8d
Aspirant

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

FWIW, the first result that comes up, when entering 'readynas remote' into google is: http://www.readynas.com/?cat=52 It might be time to give that page a little tweak (at least, as far as the software it links to). And thanks for the link to the updated version of Remote for 64-bit. It doesn't work, or course:) The icon just flashes between color and monochrome, at the top of my menu bar. I've verified my credentials and tried logging in from two different networks. And my Lion install is about three days fresh (from a Lion disk image; not an upgrade). But at least it installs without throwing any errors and I don't have to boot into 32-bit kernel for this one, last program. Now if it would just work (and in a perfect world not ask me for my admin pass, every time I restart) that would be great.

I'm not talking about the hardware (granted, outside of the power button, the entire line looks a little disjointed / designed by three different firms). I do love beautiful hardware. But in the category of NAS's, to me, it's more of a whatever's clever thing (i.e. whatever gets the job done). Now wait until NAS's actually DO become popular, when people start wanting their own little, personal clouds, and style will very much be a factor. I hope you guys are ready for that and have some major industrial designers signed on (An aside: The Fujitsu ScanSnap S1500M is a gorgeous and very 'Japanese' piece of hardware. Outside of the Macs, which set the bar, that little scanner is one of the few things on my desk that I truly enjoy looking at)...Adding to AMRivlin's point, hardware gets people excited. And hardware designs are sometimes copied, ridiculously, to the extreme. But it's not like anyone's going to mistake a Macbook Pro for whatever Lenovo decided to cook up over the weekend. Just figure out what makes a ReadyNAS a ReadyNAS and stick with that, evolve that and grow that... But that's all art. And I'm far from being an artist. So you can pretty much ignore this paragraph.

It's the software that makes things magic... And based on everything I'm hearing, it just goes back to my original point; Netgear needs to double or triple the dev budget. I understand that things are difficult and take time. What I'm saying is that they're usually LESS difficult and take LESS time with more hands on deck. And as far as features being exposed and having them copied by competitors, I wouldn't worry about that. If anything, I'd start the Xerox machine right now for what the other guys are doing. I can provide screenshots, if you want:)

As far as letting us, your loyal customers, know what's going on; if Intel can do it, Netgear can as well. Intel lays out their entire roadmap, including features, for everyone to see. They don't necessarily spell out HOW they're going to do it. But no one expects that either. It would just be nice to get some bullet points for what's coming up. Screenshots would be AWESOME. And yes, ETA's would be great as well. As far as people getting upset that a feature, here or there, didn't make it, trust me, the ReadyNAS experience, as it is right now, weeds out all but the dedicated enthusiast or IT person. We'll understand. And we won't rage on you. Promise... On the other hand, if you have some killer feature that's going to rock the industry, by all means, top secret. Did you read the story behind ATI's Eyefinity and how they kept it from leaking? Great story.

//My wish list includes Dropbox-like folder syncing, between my ReadyNAS and Macs/PCs, that requires zero input on my part. I don't want to manually log in or connect to anything, except on initial install. I don't want to boot into 32-bit kernel or enter my admin pass ever again. If Dropbox can make this happen, and they do, everyday, without fuss, I know Netgear can as well.

//Also, if you can master the software, I hope you have something like Pogoplug coming (or at least shove that software into a router). You guys could own that market. (Edit: I see that router is already coming. Good luck with that!)

//Which reminds me. I'm sure there's a logical reason to support two different ReadyNAS hardware platforms (like customer happiness). But if you're having to develop for two platforms and it's seriously eating into your feature sets, debug time, etc., I'd think about PowerPC'ing one of them. Just saying.

You guys are doing a great job. Keep it up. Take my advice with a grain of salt. I work in the movie industry and we're the biggest flakes on the planet. I just know that Netgear, unlike companies such as Apple, actually interacts with its customers. And so I'm taking advantage of that with these posts. I'm giving you the flake input and hoping it'll effect some perceived needed changes.

Regards.
Message 6 of 9
cap1
Aspirant

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

Please IM me, I would like to see why it is not working for you on your Mac.
Thanks.
Message 7 of 9
PapaBear1
Guide

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

Integ8d - I think Netgear models itself after HP and Apple who both learned from the Osborne debacle. For those who don't go way back, Osborne made a terrific little portable PC (CP/M based) before Compaq came on the scene. It had a few shortcomings, the screen was smaller than the original Compaq portable and as a result had only 64 characters of text versus the 80 that was normal (GUI was still off in the future world). But, they sold like hotcakes and the owners loved them. Now, you could pack up your computer into one box and lug it with you. The were working on the new Osborne which had a lot of new features. So, they announced to the public what they were working on and how great it would be.

The result, the Osborne stopped selling as everyone was waiting for the new one. The cash flow from sales stopped. The company, already in a cash pinch, collapsed into Bankruptcy - Chapter 7 - liquidation, and the new Osborne never really got off the drawing board. Consequently - hardware manufacturers like HP and Apple never pre announce hardware products. Apple likes to make a big glitzy bash to announce their new products - but only when they are on the shipping dock. HP just ships the new product quietly. We as Netgear users will know about the new products when they are announced, most likely when they are on the shipping dock.

Both MS and Apple do pre announce their OS software products. But there is a big difference. No one is going to put off the purchase of a major hardware purchase because of the new OS coming out, they know they can get the upgrade for a nominal price if not for free after a certain announced date.

For all of its size and strength within the industry, the NAS is still a niche product. Those of us with home networks are the exception, and within that group are those of us who a network attached storage. Many small businesses still make do with sharing a drive on one PC across their small network. Most Harry Homemakers have a modem only to connect his laptop wirelessly to the internet. Of all my friends, only two have an NAS. One who is the IT manager for a major company, has a two drive Buffalo in his home. The other is a hobbyist and a good friend to whom I gave my old NV+ as it needed a home.

While I agree that the desktop ReadyNAS line will probably not win a design of the year contest, neither will any of it's competitors. They all look like small computers (which is what they are) with slab sides and squared corners. A few have rounded the edges, and some of the weirder ones have overhanging display panels. There is only so much you can do with a box that holds hard drives for a living. In one respect, the ReadyNAS line is the best design because there is very little wasted space unlike some of the others. I remember the original 2 drive Netgear NAS I saw, it looked like a 1950's two slice toaster with bulging sides, top and front. It was not successful and they bought the ReadyNAS line from Infrant. (Actually they bought the whole company).

Besides if you really don't like looking at it, you can run the ethernet connection into a large closet where you won't have to look at it. My all black boxy NVX looks just fine next to the all black boxy JBOD box by Sans-Digital and below it is the all black boxy computer case by Antec containing my custom built PC. Desktop computing devices are like appliances. Every once in a while they will spin off in a wild burst of attempted design fervor (remember the olive and almond colored appliances), but they eventually come back to their senses and return to utility. They are not objects of art, they are appliances and are to be used and as unobtrusive as possible, The only ReadyNAS hardware I find fault with are the two bay models because they do not offer the LED/LCD display, but then that would require a larger case. There is a lot to be said for the minimalist aspect of the ReadyNAS line. Probably as a result of their background developing the enterprise level rack mount units.

The logical reason for two hardware platforms is to offer a low cost entry level platform to replace the aging NV+/Duo which was Sparc based. So, actually at one point there were three platforms although no further development is being done on the Sparc platform.
Message 8 of 9
mdgm-ntgr
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Re: New Iomega line sexy as hello... What up Netgear???

I agree mostly with what PapaBear said. However there is 4.1.9 beta firmware for Sparc. There is still some limited development on that platform.

Even with Apple not announcing future products lots of people don't purchase Macs anticipating new models. Some will eventually give up waiting and buy a Mac but if Apple had told them they were planning new models in a few months would they wait? Then perhaps get disappointed and wait for the next revision after that? Announcing new products well in advance is typically not good business. It makes sense for some component suppliers but not for NAS vendors. Announce and make available shortly after is the way to go.
Message 9 of 9
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