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WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count [ NOT SOLVED] in 4.2.9

atz6975
Guide

WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count [ NOT SOLVED] in 4.2.9

Hi,
could ze jedis give their opinion on the following situation:

While checking my smart values after a forth drive expansion (4x1TB) I found that my three other drives that are 7 months old have +200 000 Load Cycle Count

Raw Read Error Rate	0
Spin Up Time 7725
Start Stop Count 834
Reallocated Sector Count 0
Seek Error Rate 0
Power On Hours 4995
Spin Retry Count 0
Calibration Retry Count 0
Power Cycle Count 9
Power-Off Retract Count 7
Load Cycle Count 218854
Temperature Celsius 34
Reallocated Event Count 0
Current Pending Sector 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0
UDMA CRC Error Count 0
Multi Zone Error Rate 0

ATA Error Count 0


While checking some forums, I find that this situation is somehow disturbing, at least confusing...

It is stated that :
1) This kind (wd gp) of drives is designed for 300k-500k Load cycle count
2) Many Linux environments generate very high Load cycle count and are worried about
such counts growth (76+ / hour)
3) WD has issued a WDIDLE3 DOS only, SATA only, tool that can enable/change timer/disable the current default 8s timer for Intellipark.
4) This could also somehow be achieved with hdparm
5) Some Unix HD flushing mecanism must also be considered

Please, please, please, as you now that many of us are happy (even with spin down off) Users of such disk, could you create an add-on or fix or statement on how to avoid this situation.
I'm more than ready to disable "intellipark" and run WDIDLE3 on many, many, many drives.
....or to run away from these drives (although $$$$ losses will hurt)...

To all wd10eacs and other wd gp drive users please post your Load Cycle Counts (LCC) here to help asses the situation.

Thank you.
Message 1 of 30
atz6975
Guide

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

Obviously there are two wd10eacs references...WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 (old) and WDC WD10EACS-00D6B0 (new)

Disk 1,2,3 of 4 show same kind of numbers and increase rate. They are 7 months older than Disk 4. And disk4 doesn't increase its count at all as opposed to disk1.2.3.



SMART Information for Disk 1

Model: WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0
Firmware: 01.01B01

SMART Attribute

Raw Read Error Rate 0
Spin Up Time 7725
Start Stop Count 834
Reallocated Sector Count 0
Seek Error Rate 0
Power On Hours 4996
Spin Retry Count 0
Calibration Retry Count 0
Power Cycle Count 9
Power-Off Retract Count 7
Load Cycle Count 218907
Temperature Celsius 33
Reallocated Event Count 0
Current Pending Sector 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0
UDMA CRC Error Count 0
Multi Zone Error Rate 0

ATA Error Count 0

Extended Attribute

Hot-add events 0
Hot-remove events 0
Lp stat events 0
Power glitches 0
Hard disk resets 0
Retries 0
Repaired sectors 0

*************************************
SMART Information for Disk 2

Model: WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0
Firmware: 01.01B01

SMART Attribute

Raw Read Error Rate 0
Spin Up Time 5408
Start Stop Count 945
Reallocated Sector Count 0
Seek Error Rate 0
Power On Hours 3804
Spin Retry Count 0
Calibration Retry Count 0
Power Cycle Count 9
Power-Off Retract Count 7
Load Cycle Count 245819
Temperature Celsius 37
Reallocated Event Count 0
Current Pending Sector 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0
UDMA CRC Error Count 0
Multi Zone Error Rate 0

ATA Error Count 0

Extended Attribute

Hot-add events 0
Hot-remove events 0
Lp stat events 0
Power glitches 0
Hard disk resets 0
Retries 0
Repaired sectors 0

*************************************
SMART Information for Disk 3

Model: WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0
Firmware: 01.01B01

SMART Attribute

Raw Read Error Rate 0
Spin Up Time 6283
Start Stop Count 952
Reallocated Sector Count 0
Seek Error Rate 0
Power On Hours 6217
Spin Retry Count 0
Calibration Retry Count 0
Power Cycle Count 13
Power-Off Retract Count 9
Load Cycle Count 207421
Temperature Celsius 38
Reallocated Event Count 0
Current Pending Sector 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0
UDMA CRC Error Count 1
Multi Zone Error Rate 0

ATA Error Count 0

Extended Attribute

Hot-add events 0
Hot-remove events 0
Lp stat events 0
Power glitches 0
Hard disk resets 0
Retries 0
Repaired sectors 0

*************************************
SMART Information for Disk 4

Model: WDC WD10EACS-00D6B0
Firmware: 01.01A01

SMART Attribute

Raw Read Error Rate 0
Spin Up Time 0
Start Stop Count 2
Reallocated Sector Count 0
Seek Error Rate 0
Power On Hours 8
Spin Retry Count 0
Calibration Retry Count 0
Power Cycle Count 2
Power-Off Retract Count 1
Load Cycle Count 2
Temperature Celsius 34
Reallocated Event Count 0
Current Pending Sector 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0
UDMA CRC Error Count 0
Multi Zone Error Rate 0

ATA Error Count 0

Extended Attribute

Hot-add events 0
Hot-remove events 0
Lp stat events 0
Power glitches 0
Hard disk resets 0
Retries 0
Repaired sectors 0
Message 2 of 30
ginigma
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

Relevant Info from my 3 drives:

Model: WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0
Firmware: 01.01B01
Spin Up Time 7441 7525 0
Start Stop Count 98 112 5
Power On Hours 4458 3266 3213
Power Cycle Count 11 10 5
Power-Off Retract Count 9 9 4
Load Cycle Count 247217 252210 196367
Message 3 of 30
atz6975
Guide

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

FWIW...
The new drive count is not increasing at all.
So I checked with WDIDLE3 and both old and new drives use the same 8000ms timer...

I guess WD did fix something on the drive/firmware. Maybe just the way SMART reports the Load cycle count... :lol:

Please provide your own feedback.

Thank you.
Message 4 of 30
pho
Aspirant
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

HD 1: Load Cycle Count 113371
HD 2: Load Cycle Count 129139
HD 3: Load Cycle Count 22678
HD 4: Load Cycle Count 21784

All are WD10EACS drives (WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0), the last two were added two months ago

should I worry?
Message 5 of 30
Dave_E1
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

ReadyNAS NV+ with 4x 1TB WD1000FYPS installed 27 February 2008

SMART Data 27/9/2008

SMART Attribute


Disk 1 2 3 4
Raw Read Error Rate 0 9356 0 0
Spin Up Time 7616 7616 7616 7616
Start Stop Count 187 186 186 186
Reallocated Sector Count 0 0 0 0
Seek Error Rate 0 0 0 0
Power On Hours 2193 2192 2192 2192
Spin Retry Count 0 0 0 0
Calibration Retry Count 0 0 0 0
Power Cycle Count 187 186 186 186
Power-Off Retract Count 187 185 185 185
Load Cycle Count 105947 113924 133689 133689
Temperature Celsius 29 33 33 33
Reallocated Event Count 0 0 0 0
Current Pending Sector 0 0 0 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0 0 0 0
UDMA CRC Error Count 0 0 0 0
Multi Zone Error Rate 0 0 0 0
ATA Error Count 2 4 4 4

Extended Attribute
Hot-add events 0 0 0 0
Hot-remove events 0 0 0 0
Lp stat events 0 0 0 0
Power glitches 0 0 0 0
Hard disk resets 0 0 0 0
Retries 0 0 0 0
Repaired sectors 0 0 0 0
Message 6 of 30
Lichon
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

HDD 1:
Power On Hours 4638
Load Cycle Count 173231
HDD 2:
Power On Hours 4659
Load Cycle Count 188279
HDD 3:
Power On Hours 4659
Load Cycle Count 159421
HDD 4:
Power On Hours 4659
Load Cycle Count 214899


All 4 are WDC WD1000FYPS-01ZKB0 running F/W 02.01B01. They were inserted at the same time and none have been taken out (dont know why HDD1 hours are lower).
Message 7 of 30
ebaggen
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

I have 4 x WD1000FYPS-01ZKB0 disks installed

DISK 1 :
Spin Up Time 7725
Start Stop Count 7
Power On Hours 4607
Power Cycle Count 7
Power-Off Retract Count 6
Load Cycle Count 292299

DISK 2 :
Spin Up Time 7916
Start Stop Count 7
Power On Hours 4607
Power Cycle Count 7
Power-Off Retract Count 6
Load Cycle Count 381923

DISK 3 :
Spin Up Time 7708
Start Stop Count 7
Power On Hours 4607
Power Cycle Count 7
Power-Off Retract Count 6
Load Cycle Count 284087

DISK 4 :
Spin Up Time 7466
Start Stop Count 7
Power On Hours 3414
Power Cycle Count 7
Power-Off Retract Count 6
Load Cycle Count 295477

All 4 disks have been installed @ the same moment ... no idea why disk 4 is reporting less operational hours (was installed at SAME time). Disks are used almost 24x7, never had a single failure. I'm very, very happy with them and will again buy the same WD drives when I upgrade my 3rd box from 400 GB to 1 TB (or more if available)
Message 8 of 30
atz6975
Guide

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

...mmmmm... there is something weird in those load cycle counts. But I am very happy with mine too and definitively the newer ones are low on that count.
Last count :
Disk 1,2,3(old fw) & 4(new fw)
Load Cycle Count(lcc): 227 604, 254 732 , 218 536 & 4

So all drives lcc are up by 1000/day except drive 4.
At this rate i'm reaching those drive's mechanical wear zone in less than 2 years.
I hope ze jedis can cast some saber-light on these numbers...Please.
Thanks.
Message 9 of 30
ctc2
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

wow, glad I read this thread... I have 3 drives installed for 10 months and load cycle counts are (approximately) 330000, 350000 and 350000. Power on hours were 6000, 5000 and 7500 hours - yet they were all installed at the same time (maybe disk 3 was a week later). I forget the exact numbers, since I shut down my NAS for now since it gets light home use and these numbers are way too high.

I bought these WD drives after Infrant support added them to the HCL - then shortly after removed them due to the spindown issue. Now this!! I had sworn off Western Digital drives years ago, but decided to try again after the positive reviews of these drives. I'll never buy another western digital product again.

Has anyone tracked down the WDIDE3 utility? I want to buy some time before getting some seagate 1.5 TB and wait until people here have tried them out a while.
Message 10 of 30
sander11
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

I'm wondering if its a Readynas issue. I have 2 ATA WDC WD10EACS-00Ds and the numbers are much lower:

Raw Read Error Rate 0
Spin Up Time 7666
Start Stop Count 46
Reallocated Sector Ct 0
Seek Error Rate 0
Power On Hours 1484
Spin Retry Count 0
Calibration Retry Count 0
Power Cycle Count 45
Power-Off Retract Count 16
Load Cycle Count 46
Temperature Celsius 34
Reallocated Event Count 1
Current Pending Sector 0
Offline Uncorrectable 0
Multi Zone Error Rate 0
Message 11 of 30
Lichon
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

sander wrote:
I'm wondering if its a Readynas issue. I have 2 ATA WDC WD10EACS-00Ds and the numbers are much lower:
A quick guess. You dont use the BT client, right ?
Message 12 of 30
sander11
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

Sorry I wasn't clear. Those numbers are from another server I have set up. They're not from the Readynas.

When I fire up my WD Mybook World Edition again, I'll check the numbers on that, as it has seen more use and has WC10EACS drives in it.

I've invested in 6 of these drives with the goal of swapping out the 4 Seagate 500GB in NV+ with 4 of them and using the others as backup in other units.

I'm a little disturbed by this thread as well, but given I have these drives approaching 1500 hours of use and >50 reloads it has to be a firmware or readynas (or both) issue, not just the drives.
Message 13 of 30
pho
Aspirant
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

jedis? your take on this please?
Message 14 of 30
atz6975
Guide

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

1)these drives (for a total different reason) are not supported
2)this occurs with Raidiator+Wd drives, Linux+WD as opposed to Win+Wd (I wonder osx+WD?)
3)the newer firmware seems to fix this (over two advanced rmas I only got one with new firmware, but I'll be testing the rma drives with older firmware)
4)Other ux-based NAS products(Syn..) faced the same situation and pretty much fixed it
5)After all it is only a wear factor butthe drive may fail for a totally different reason

My point being, if I were to carry a light saber or fancy furry partners, I would probably watch this thread from a distance but certainly not get involved...



PS: Just helped a customer with Tera..II from Buff..., what a joke :rofl: :neener: :rofl:
EDIT: not my advise!
Message 15 of 30
pho
Aspirant
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

atz6975 wrote:

4)Other ux-based NAS products(Syn..) faced the same situation and pretty much fixed it


so they fixed it in their firmware?
Message 16 of 30
atz6975
Guide

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

pho wrote:

so they fixed it in their firmware?


Nope, the NAS managed the WD differently.

Anyway, I received two RMA WD...helas, they came with the old firmware...same results
Message 17 of 30
sander11
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

According to threads like this:
http://fixunix.com/kernel/379138-re-wes ... linux.html

The problem has to do with the intellipark feature and how linux interacts with it. If you have the 3rd generation models (WD10EACS-00D) the problem appears to be fixed (at least my linux server, posted in this thread, it isn't an issue).

Apparently the workaround is to use the wdidle3.exe utility from Western Digital to increase the intellipark window to the maximum of 25 seconds. That appears to solve the problem.

The downside is you need to run the utility from a DOS boot disk, the upside is the utility is apparently non-disruptive. So you can power down your Readynas, run the utility on all your drives on another machine, and put the drives back in before you boot up again and you should be good.

I haven't tried this, but I'm doing a factory reset soon, to enable online expansion, so I'm going to do it then.
Message 18 of 30
JimTheKiwi
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

To help us understand the consequences (in the absence of official help from WD), here is my data point:

I seem to be an extreme case because I bought early and have hardly ever turned the drives off even though my workload is very low. My load cycle count is now 540,000 - 610,000 (around twice WD's claimed design limit of 300,000) but everything else appears to be OK. I am a little surprised that the drives have very different "Power On Hours" figures for not-so-different load cycle counts, all four drives have been in the same NV+ system powered on for just over a year (about 8500-9500 hours elapsed time), not sure why the drives report a wide range from from 8500 to 5100 power on hours, perhaps the firmware IO is uneven. The lowest load cycle count is on the drive with the highest hours, so it seems to be a problem with idle time that gets better with increased activity.

I have not seen any errors, but I don't know what symptoms to expect other than some unknown probability of total drive failure. Would an empty load cycle (ie park the heads when they are already parked) actually cause much less wear and tear than a normal load cycle?

I'm hoping that the best approach may be to wait until one fails or until I want to upgrade the drives for other reasons (eg in another year or two it may be economical to swap four 2TB or 3TB drives in, or buy a new NAS). The low probability worst case is that one drive totally fails suddenly without SMART warning, and then the RAID recovery from that causes total failure on one or more of the other three, losing the entire contents.

If something happens to my drives I'll post here, and I'll stay subscribed to this thread in case someone else hits a wall first.


Disk 1 Disk 2 Disk 3 Disk 4 SMART Information

WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 WDC WD10EACS-00ZJB0 Model:
WD-WCASJ0159784 WD-WCASJ0443907 WD-WCASJ0346720 WD-WCASJ0443775 Serial:
01.01B01 01.01B01 01.01B01 01.01B01 Firmware:

SMART Attribute
0 0 0 0 Raw Read Error Rate
0 0 0 0 Spin Up Time
5 5 5 5 Start Stop Count
0 0 0 0 Reallocated Sector Count
0 0 0 0 Seek Error Rate
8495 7302 7403 5118 Power On Hours
0 0 0 0 Spin Retry Count
0 0 0 0 Calibration Retry Count
5 5 5 5 Power Cycle Count
4 4 4 4 Power-Off Retract Count
539897 567165 610837 596694 Load Cycle Count
33 35 35 33 Temperature Celsius
0 0 0 0 Reallocated Event Count
0 0 0 0 Current Pending Sector
0 0 0 0 Offline Uncorrectable
0 0 0 0 UDMA CRC Error Count
0 0 0 0 Multi Zone Error Rate
0 0 0 0 ATA Error Count

Extended Attribute
0 0 0 0 Hot-add events
0 0 0 0 Hot-remove events
0 0 0 0 Lp stat events
0 0 0 0 Power glitches
0 0 0 0 Hard disk resets
0 0 0 0 Retries
0 0 0 0 Repaired sectors
Message 19 of 30
snipes
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

My LCC counts were all approaching 300,000 so I decided it was time to take action.

I tried using the max timer value of 25.5 seconds with wdidle3, but I still found my LCC increasing. So I disabled this timer on all my drives. No further increases in this value since I did that a few days ago.

As mentioned earlier this is a non destructive change. It just required pulling each drive out one at a time, inserting it into a PC then booting from dos to run the utility. The entire process took a bit of time, but at least it didn't require backup/restore.
Message 20 of 30
sander11
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

I was going to do this once I could borrow a machine that has sata. How much was it going up when you raised the limit 25 seconds? Because I was under the impression it would slow the reloads to an acceptable level.
Message 21 of 30
snipes
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

They still climbed by ~30 in an hour. Since the LCC count was already so high I decided to just disable and stop it where it currently is.
Message 22 of 30
rstone
Aspirant

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

snipes wrote:
I tried using the max timer value of 25.5 seconds with wdidle3


For those of you who don't have the software mentioned by snipes and others...I found a site that has the dos utility

ftp://76.17.197.241/public/software/dos/utilities/

Good Luck!
Message 23 of 30
snahl
Tutor

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

Fixed the high LC count (LCC) on four of my WD10EACS-00ZJB0 by using 'wdidle3 /D'.

LCC counts are now stable.

As of today one can download 'WDidle3.exe' from the URL below:

http://home.arcor.de/ghostadmin/wdidle3_1_00.zip

Hope this helps someone.
Message 24 of 30
snahl
Tutor

Re: WD10EACS: Huge Load cycle count

Forgot to mention that after disabling the idle timer (option /D) the temperature of all 4 disks averaged lower at 33°C / 91°F.

This temparature reading was taken immediately after copying 6.3GB of data onto the drives of my NV+.

Before the temperature averaged around 39°C /102.2°F
Message 25 of 30
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